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CorelDRAW - Version Upgrades Going Bye Bye, Subscription-Only Soon
- Thread starter Bobby H
- Start date
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
You get less and pay more (the one that I personally don't like is less control). That's the thing. Bare in mind, I come from a trade that software goes for $15k for just one program (at least for the full version (by full, I mean all modules activated, ready for use) of the industry standard). Just one, not a suite of programs. I would prefer to pay that, then to be on the hook for subscription.
Now, the above also assumes that there may or may not be a replacement program that helps one continue to make a living (that same alternative may or may not apply to the next person, that has to be assessed individually, but just because it doesn't work for "you" doesn't mean that it won't work for the next person (or vice versa)).
Keep in mind, price hikes, functions deprecating/removed etc can happen at any time and you are on the hook for it at any time. And you have to upgrade to the latest version (remember Adobe is forcing no older then x-1 for it's users) which may or may not have functionality that you may need to make said living. Heaven forbid in order to make sure that you stay on that upgrade path, you have to upgrade your hardware more frequently as well.
But if one is fine with "vendor lock in", that's fine as well.
While maybe true some of the time, I would hesitate to think that it would apply to everyone that has this issue.
Younger people don't know what they haven't had. I have programs from 20 years ago, and all the files and jobs and work that went into it. If I want to open any of those files I can. When you go to a subscription, the real issue is the software company more or less owns your files. Without a paid subscription, the files are useless. So you now have to pay to access your own work. Sure you can export PDF, and EPS, and hope everything is the same, and the fonts translate etc. But what a pain in the donkey's behind. So if you have 10 years with Flexi, and then you move on to another program, you will have to continue to pay for Flexi so you can access your files. So now you have 2 or more programs to pay for every month. If you own the software, you can keep the Flexi computer for as long as you want, and still be able to access all those 1000's of hours of your labour if you want to. If not, anytime a customer comes in and you have to go to their old files, you either pay Flexi (and hope the old files work with the newest version) or start from scratch. As I said you can also go through all the jobs and export them into a generic file format, but that is really not a reliable and efficient method.
The other thing I have learned in life is to not have monthly payments. They are "death by 1000 cuts". Everybody wants to be a blood tick and suck your blood monthly. I want no monthly payments, or as few and as little as possible. I will not be paying and paying and paying. That's a form of slavery.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
In fairness, along with the "master" file, other files should have been saved as well, hopefully preserving as much as one can with as little loss as possible.
Is it perfect? Absolutely not, some do better then others, but that is the big downside with a proprietary file format. It's not going to do the software vendor any favors by making it any easier for a person to switch from one program to the next.
Unless you get the source code with the purchase, no one owns the software. Perpetual license is still a license.
They pull the activation servers, no longer give you a physical dongle (if applicable), it no longer runs on the latest OS, all of these (and others that I'm sure I'm not remembering to list) will make it harder for one to keep a program that they bought 20 yrs ago running on the latest and greatest hardware. Or they are limited to how ever long that physical computer lasts them, which still isn't going to be forever.
There are some ways around it. Sometimes it's hit or miss, but nothing is for sure unless one has the source code and is able to build it on the latest system (which isn't always an easy thing, especially for Win and Mac platforms, in my experience anyway).
equippaint
Active Member
Doubtful. If anything itll make cracks less prevelant. Opensource like inkscape pretty much eliminates the need for cracked software
Baz
New Member
First off i am not one of those "younger people" and no offense to younger people! ;-)
If you are intent on using your old software then it might be wise to keep that old computer as well just to run it.
I still have my first shop pc hooked up with Flexi 6 i believe. And i can start it up and retrieve any old file.
Of course i have to export it to .eps format and will have to convert it in my current program. But that is done once in a blue moon now and the old files always need a bit of freshening up.
I have all my files dating back to the mid 90's even (but that computer is stored away).
I understand the consequences of accumulating monthly payments but you have to consider what the payment is for!
This is for your lively hood and is a crucial tool for your work. You can easily cover that if you make any money off of it IMO.
I have ended up ditching proprietary sign software and am using Adobe software now.
To me having updated software has more advantages than relying on past versions. (i receive artwork from outside sources quite often)
I have no more hassles (or very few) when opening files.
There's nothing wrong in keeping your old software if it is still doing what you need it for but my opinion is don't bitch when you can't open files that are given to you.
If that happens then take a deposit on the job and get a subscription ASAP!
Adobe CC costs over 80.00$ canadian a month right now (varies with the exchange rate) and i couldn't be happier using it.
If you are intent on using your old software then it might be wise to keep that old computer as well just to run it.
I still have my first shop pc hooked up with Flexi 6 i believe. And i can start it up and retrieve any old file.
Of course i have to export it to .eps format and will have to convert it in my current program. But that is done once in a blue moon now and the old files always need a bit of freshening up.
I have all my files dating back to the mid 90's even (but that computer is stored away).
I understand the consequences of accumulating monthly payments but you have to consider what the payment is for!
This is for your lively hood and is a crucial tool for your work. You can easily cover that if you make any money off of it IMO.
I have ended up ditching proprietary sign software and am using Adobe software now.
To me having updated software has more advantages than relying on past versions. (i receive artwork from outside sources quite often)
I have no more hassles (or very few) when opening files.
There's nothing wrong in keeping your old software if it is still doing what you need it for but my opinion is don't bitch when you can't open files that are given to you.
If that happens then take a deposit on the job and get a subscription ASAP!
Adobe CC costs over 80.00$ canadian a month right now (varies with the exchange rate) and i couldn't be happier using it.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Personally, I prefer to VM an older OS. Why keep older hardware around when the real value is the software itself? Keeping that older hardware running can be more cost prohibitive then it's worth.
If there is an alternative and it doesn't sacrifice quality and efficiency for the end product (in some instances superior, in some lacking) and it keeps ones cost down, wouldn't it be in the best interest of the business to explore that possibility?
Just because a decision was good 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 yrs ago, doesn't in of itself mean that it's still a good decision.
One proprietary system for another. Now, I'm not saying that the software isn't good or is bad. It may very well be the best option for one to use, but it would behoove one to actually investigate every so often to make sure that's the case.
Oh and just because it's the latest and greatest doesn't mean that it's always the best. Functions get deprecated and or removed. Functions that the business may need to operate. So just because it's the latest doesn't in of itself mean that it's the greatest.
Being "bleeding edge" (which people are with Adobe's new update schedule of no older then x-1) isn't always what it's cracked up to be.
Now, one thing that I would say that already puts at least me in a different camp then you (and quite possibly be the case for others) the "outside" files that I get, they aren't Ai files. They aren't DRAW files. They may be a PDF file (with a raster file embedded in it). So that's at least one thing that makes my needs different then your own. Just because your needs may or may not allow you to switch, doesn't mean that it's the same for the next person.
Ditto when being "bleeding edge" bites one as well (I see far more people complaining about the most recent whatever update in order to run bleeding edge, then with keeping slightly older software (still supported, I'm not talking legacy software here).
Bare in mind some of their subscription packages, they doubled the cost for some customers (not all, only some IPs saw it when they visited the site). Increase, increase, increase and there is no promise that a feature that one enjoys today will be there tomorrow. The joys of being "bleeding edge" on a rolling release schema.
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WildWestDesigns
Active Member
There will be people that think that they can only do something if they possess this, that or the other software/hardware.
Depending on what one needs or wants to do.
I'm all for open source (my shop runs on it), but there are still people that think open source = shit. I think for a lot of people it's as simple as a different workflow (not everyone mind you, but far more then what most would realize).
brycesteiner
New Member
I for the most part agree with you but people think that Adobe software is up-to-date because it's the latest version. That just isn't true. The code is so old that it doesn't compare to the speed of modern software. The only part that's kept up is compatibility with the latest OS. It's not optimized for speed or display. They do keep up the file format of the programs so you can't use your file in older programs, but I really don't consider that a plus.
I also don't care to stay on the bleeding edge of Adobe because when I have the programs crash a lot or, as in earlier this year, Acrobat wouldn't function moving across a second screen. It would crash.
That's the part that bothers me. I feel I am paying for good software but instead treated like a beta tester.
I also am limited to 200" inches in Adobe programs (216" in AI I believe). Adobe has told me it's because PDF is limited to 200". That is not true. It was way back in PDF 1.5 but PDF 1.6 the limit was removed and became an ISO standard, yet Adobe continues to operate as if it's their format and refuses to adapt.
In a way this is good. Why? Because it has given opportunity to other companies to expand and show what can really be done with PDF, Metal and DirectX and not just for games.
Baz
New Member
I did not subscribe from the get go but after a few years it became evident that i had to upgrade.
Once you subscribe to your software you pretty much have no choice but to keep going.
Or change and start over from that point. It is always good to explore other alternatives sometimes.
I am in no way saying that what i use is better than than what others are using.
I try to avoid mentioning Adobe because people think you are a fanboy or whatever. It's what i need to use for my clients.
I don't care about Adobe, Corel even open source program pissing matches. You use what you like to use and if it works then good for you.
Coming back on topic i just think Corel's subscription model is inevitable and pretty reasonable for what people can do with it.
One thing ... I am not looking forward to the day when your operating system will be subscription only.
Once you subscribe to your software you pretty much have no choice but to keep going.
Or change and start over from that point. It is always good to explore other alternatives sometimes.
I am in no way saying that what i use is better than than what others are using.
I try to avoid mentioning Adobe because people think you are a fanboy or whatever. It's what i need to use for my clients.
I don't care about Adobe, Corel even open source program pissing matches. You use what you like to use and if it works then good for you.
Coming back on topic i just think Corel's subscription model is inevitable and pretty reasonable for what people can do with it.
One thing ... I am not looking forward to the day when your operating system will be subscription only.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
I thought it would happen back when Adobe went subscription only. When they started going on the yearly release cadence (which is much too short of a release cycle in my mind), it wasn't if, but when.
I still believe a lot of it has to do with an aging code base and that is getting very hard to innovate anymore (and no, buying another company and integrating that into an existing program isn't what I'm thinking of as innovating (thinking of Adobe here)) and they need something to keep the revenue stream coming in.
I don't necessarily begrudge them that, but the lack of control is something that I don't like, especially if my control gets even less due to something that they did and not something that I did (again thinking of Adobe).
Now, don't get me wrong, I love Adobe products, still do. But that doesn't mean I won't be looking at alternatives if they go in a direction that I don't like (providing those alternatives will do what I need them to do and efficiently)
It may happen in some form. Win 10 Enterprise already has a subscription option now, now for the regular users, I don't know if it would be done in the same capacity or maybe if one wants/needs this function have to do a subscription but the base OS is one time (or free, or subsidized etc) or done in some other manner.
Given the rolling release perpetual beta nature of Win 10, it's not all that hard to envision some type of subscription schema even for regular users.
I also always keep my old computers. When it starts getting long in the tooth I buy a new one, and use a connective hardware / software thing that lets me transfer and work off both boxes interchangeably until eventually I have the new computer set up so I rarely need to get anything or do anything with the old machine.
I also don't like updates. I am not a leading edge software user, so I like Windows 7 and the older programs. I went through update hell in the 90's and I learned to never be the first to install an update. Now with subscriptions I understand you have no choice?
I also don't like updates. I am not a leading edge software user, so I like Windows 7 and the older programs. I went through update hell in the 90's and I learned to never be the first to install an update. Now with subscriptions I understand you have no choice?
brycesteiner
New Member
You kind of do. I have my CC subscription locked so it does not do automatic updates. If you get the right hacks you can do that with Windows home. Windows Pro you can delay the update for a certain amount of time.
I don't like the scenarios because I lose control. This is one reason why I like virtual machines. I then can run my old programs without fear of that an OS update (or virus) will kill it because I have them backed up.
I love to test a new OS such as Mac or Linux but I fell out of favor with Windows betas. Too many issues to run your business software on it, but if you have the time it does let you adapt quicker.
One other thing that bothers me about the subscription and software keys is what happens if the company goes out of business or is acquired? Or, they decide to shutdown their authentication server? This has happened to me and even having the perpetual license does not help unless you kept it in a VM.
Serif was the company that I have their web building software and they discontinued it. I went to reinstall and they had shutdown their server BUT they did provide a master key on the forum so that worked.
I do look for hacks in the software I'm paying for just because I don't trust the company will always be there, even as large as Adobe can fall. I want to make sure that the files I worked on 15 years ago still has a chance so I do keep the old software around, and Zii just so I have somewhat of a chance. I also have PDF's of pretty much everything stored. All files are then backed up locally and in the cloud.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
This actually depends on the subscription itself. Rolling release (which is what Windows 10 is and for most regular users it isn't a subscription OS) OSs is very true and mandating feature release updates is where a lot of the problems stem from in Win 10. It doesn't affect everyone, but it has shown that it affects a good amount of the Win 10 user base.
Win 10 is not a production friendly OS. It just isn't, not for the type of production most on here do.
Now, if Win 10 "sees" that your hardware can't handle the latest version, it won't install it. That's good and bad, as after 18 months from when that version was released, it goes EOL, which means that even though you may have Win 10 on your computer, that version of Win 10 may no longer be supported either from MS or from your software vendors.
With subscription software. Adobe wasn't quite like this up until just recently when they fubar'ed their own licensing with Dolby. Now users can't use versions older then x-1 (one generation back from current release). Between the Win 10 update schema and the Adobe update schema, yes updating hardware to keep up on a regular basis is going to be a much bigger reality then it once was.
Things get deprecated and removed all the time, which connectivity functionality between your computer hardware and production hardware (think type of ports here) may also suffer.
All in all, how OSs and software are distributed now is not the best thing for those working in this type of production environment. Our production hardware which isn't cheap, moves at a much slower pace then our computer hardware. Exceptionally slower now.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
3rd Party hacks, which is what you are using if blocking Win 10 updates forever, have their own security implications. What you may be using may not be an issue, but that's what I would worry about. Remember what happened to some people trying to stop Win 10 from updating their 7 and 8.1 computers?
brycesteiner
New Member
I remember that my Windows 7 didn't update and it's still working fine. What are you referring to?
I also find it funny that Adobe's updates still support Windows 7 but does not support 8, 8.1 or earlier versions of 10.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/68039...ems-with-its-next-major-creative-cloud-update
And that using CS6 and CC could get you sued by 3rd parties:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/77441...pps-could-lead-to-lawsuits-from-third-parties
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
This was back in 2015 when MS was doing all that nagware and actually downloading (but at the time not installing Win 10). People were installing things like "Don't Get Win 10" etc to disable the nagging and to get rid of what was already downloaded.
I don't think it was specifically that one program that I referenced, but there were quite a lot of programs/scripts that people were using to prevent the upgrade process and some of them were malware.
Flash forward to today, people are using programs/scripts to prevent the auto update process of Win 10. I would be concerned of the same thing happening.
Win 7 is still wildly popular while 8 isn't. And not supporting earlier versions of Win 10 isn't surprising. Remember MS doesn't even support early versions of Win 10 if they are older then 18 months from when they were released (not from when you got them, but when they were released, could very well be a widely different date).
On the CC versions, not on CS6. It has to do with how they were paying their license fee to Dolby. It's harder to figure out the true money due with a subscription schema then it is a more traditional license. This was what I was referencing that forces people to be no older then x-1 on their Adobe programs, which could cause the need to update hardware as well to keep up.
This isn't the customer's fault, but they are baring a portion of the issue as well.
There was actually a case were someone was using an older CC Flash/Animate due to them needing a functionality that current CC versions didn't have. Now they have to update or else quite their subscription. Which led me to talk about how functions that one depends on could be deprecated and/or removed at a moments notice and nothing one can do if they want to be "bleeding edge".