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CorelDRAW - Version Upgrades Going Bye Bye, Subscription-Only Soon
- Thread starter Bobby H
- Start date
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
That one seems to have been a popular (and from all accounts a good one) back in the day.
brycesteiner
New Member
It is CS6 also. Look at the version numbers.
Photoshop: CC 18.1.6 and prior, CC 17, CC 16, CC 15, CC 14, 13
InDesign: CC 9, 8
Premiere Pro: CC 11, CC 10, CC 9, CC 8, CC 7, 6
Those are all CS6 versions
Photoshop: CC 18.1.6 and prior, CC 17, CC 16, CC 15, CC 14, 13
InDesign: CC 9, 8
Premiere Pro: CC 11, CC 10, CC 9, CC 8, CC 7, 6
Those are all CS6 versions
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
That may be for the subscription versions of those. This stems from license fees not being paid to Dolby for use of their IP in various software by Adobe.
% of a perpetual license is easy to figure out, those that had subscription, may or may not still be on the offending versions and the license fee that was supposed to have been remitted to Dolby may or may not have been for their specific version.
Let's say that it is for the perpetual license holders of CS6 as well (which really throws to shit people's belief of ownership of software with a perpetual license and being able to use it forever). This is the type of stuff that can really put one in a bind with using software that uses the closed source model. It may very well be the best software to use, I'm not saying that isn't, but just be aware of the risks and it's even easier for them to do stuff like this since the end users have less control with SaaS software as well.
This is software that people use to make living with even less control over it then before (and actually paying more for it in the long run).
Jim Hill
New Member
A big part of the problem is that private equity firms are killing American business and jobs once they take over a company and then milk the company for every last penny and then sell what left to another smaller private equity firm that continues where the first one left off.
There is a pattern or game plan that private equity firms tend to follow that should scare the hell out of every American in this county.
Read the book "The Buyout of America" How Private Equity is destroying jobs and killing the American Economy by Josh Kosman.
When you read the book a pattern emerges of just how they operate and now it is going to happen to CorelDraw.
Still not sure what I am going to do but I don't like this BLACK MAIL approach they are using.
Jim
There is a pattern or game plan that private equity firms tend to follow that should scare the hell out of every American in this county.
Read the book "The Buyout of America" How Private Equity is destroying jobs and killing the American Economy by Josh Kosman.
When you read the book a pattern emerges of just how they operate and now it is going to happen to CorelDraw.
Still not sure what I am going to do but I don't like this BLACK MAIL approach they are using.
Jim
Currently the big problem is CorelDRAW 2019 is buggy as hell. I'm not using that version, but from what I understand, aside from the bugs and other performance issues (especially on the Mac side), Corel has stripped down some functions and features of the program. So that makes matters even worse. Why should I spend $200 for an upgrade that's really a down-grade, plus another $99 per year just to have the opportunity to be able to purchase another upgrade after that?
The venture capital people running Corel are sealing Corel's fate. They clearly have no idea where Corel stands in the larger scheme of things with commercial graphics software. There's already legions of professional graphics people who don't use Corel products at all. So now the venture capital people are going to strong-arm the remaining customers who've stayed loyal? Great plan! Not.
The venture capital people running Corel are sealing Corel's fate. They clearly have no idea where Corel stands in the larger scheme of things with commercial graphics software. There's already legions of professional graphics people who don't use Corel products at all. So now the venture capital people are going to strong-arm the remaining customers who've stayed loyal? Great plan! Not.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Sounds like it's a repeat of what happened to them the last time (what ~ 20 yrs ago?) that they tried to do a Mac version (and I figured it be the reason why they would continue to stay away from it once they dropped it from their lineup last time).
Bugs are to be expected. No matter how much testing is done in house before things are released. you still have people testing on certain hardware configurations with certain workflow conditions. Once it's out in the wild the variables exponentially get bigger. This is the big reason why I do not like a yearly release cadence. Very little time to iron things out
It's called "vendor lock in". Either due to real or imagined reasons (I'm just mentioning those 2 categories, I'm not saying anyone here specifically fits in one or the other).
This is an issue with all software vendors (especially with older software) not just with Corel. However, as you mentioned some have bigger clout and that's why they are able to handle those that jump ships versus those that stay or the new ones that they bring on. But the concern is always there.
This is the risk that people take no matter with software that they use. Moreso, depending on what dev. model that they follow, but it does impact all software.
Why in my mind, it's always good to evaluate on if it's good to stick with a software package or seek out alternatives (or just see if there are alternatives). There may or may not be alternatives, it does depend on the needs of the person looking. If one isn't able to find alternatives that work in their favor, better get ready, because it's going to be a bumpy ride.
myront
Dammit, make it faster!!
The way I see it. Under the "old" way.
A one time purchase of Corel @ $450-500 = $500 for 5-7 years
The new Subscription way. "develop" the new version in such a way as to make it the only viable option.
$198p/yr x 5-7yr = $990 - $1386
Hmmm........call me old and set in my ways but I like saving money.
A one time purchase of Corel @ $450-500 = $500 for 5-7 years
The new Subscription way. "develop" the new version in such a way as to make it the only viable option.
$198p/yr x 5-7yr = $990 - $1386
Hmmm........call me old and set in my ways but I like saving money.
brycesteiner
New Member
Not to mention that the price that you paid for 5-7 years for the same version isn't going up. The subscription model is guaranteed to increase.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
There are different ways of saving money. Does the efficiency of the software used make up for the price paid for it's use? If it does, that's one way of saving money right there.
To me, it's what "you" get for what "you" paid for and with subscription, one is getting less and paying more. That's what gets me.
Very little stays the same price as the years go by. There are a few instances where things can get cheaper (economies of scale etc), but in most instances, things go up, very rarely go down or remain static (unless the vendor with the static prices is absorbing extra expense (either through ignorance or whatever reason)).
The thing is with a subscription model, one has less control on when they pay that cost or actually if they have to do hardware updates as well (or other software updates, which may or may not incur a cost). Especially if one of those vendors is requiring it's subscribers to be relatively "bleeding edge".
I feel for those that believe that they are in "vendor lock in", either for real or imagined reasons.
WildWestDesigns said:
The Mac version of CorelDRAW 11 (2002) suffered from different issues than the new Mac version of CorelDRAW 2019. The big criticism of CorelDRAW 11 back then was the application was nothing more than a crude port of the Windows program over to OSX. CorelDRAW 11 is one of the versions I skipped buying due to bugs.
The Mac version of CorelDRAW 2019 was re-built from the ground up as a true OSX application. Corel strictly followed Apple's UI rules, which led to a lot of changes to the CorelDRAW interface, changes to short cuts and elimination of many customization options. That hasn't gone over well with experienced CorelDRAW users. Adding to the problems, the program has all kinds of performance issues. The Windows version has serious problems as well.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
No, it does have 1 issue that is the same on both.
Lackluster impact on the Mac eco system.
"You" have die hard fans that believe that one cannot be a true digital creative without being on the Mac platform and one must be using Adobe products. Lackluster DRAW on the Mac platform just makes it hard(er) for Corel to break that mind set.
Now, anyone that thought that they essentially first foray into the Mac userspace was going to be without issue, I'm sorry, whistlin' dixie, especially given the almost 20 yr break between the last time that they tried.
So let me get this straight, people are complaining because Corel tried to follow Apple's rules for the Mac platform (which is the correct thing, it honestly is) and people are bitching because it requires adapting? It's a whole different platform, with it's own set of UI/UX rules. Of course, there are going to be changes that they have to suffer through. Especially on the 1st go around. I don't recall Adobe having it any easier with their version of Windows.
It too was lacking in the same functionality as it's Apple version. I think Ai 2.0 flopped on the Windows and Ai 4 had it's own issues as well. I don't think it was until version 6 that there was some UI parity between the two platforms.
Now at this period of time, I don't think Corel has that option of taking their time to fix it, but to actually think that there aren't going to be issues with essentially the 1st time on a platform (yes I consider it a 1st time where there is an 18-20 yr break between the last time). I would actually expect more issues then what would be normal due to that fact alone.
WildWestDesigns said:
Attitudes of Apple fans/snobs in 2002 was an external factor, a serious one, but still external. I was only referring to issues with the actual CorelDRAW application.
In 2002 it certainly didn't help Corel any to release a crudely ported Mac version of their program into a platform with a lot of competition. In doing so they blew something of an opportunity considering Macromedia was dealing with lots of flak over bugs in the Freehand 10 release, which IIRC, they didn't fully fix until the release of Freehand MX in 2003. That turned out to be the final version of Freehand. The re-branding of Freehand as "Adobe Freehand" following Adobe's buy-out of Macromedia doesn't count. It was still the MX version; it wasn't long before Adobe killed it. The user base of Adobe Illustrator was pretty solid. But Corel had an outside chance to win over some Freehand users rather than see them all migrate to Illustrator.
WildWestDesigns said:
Adobe Illustrator allows users to do customize and re-arrange the UI in all sorts of various workspaces and save those workspaces. It's that way on both Mac and Windows versions. I don't know how much they violate Apple's OSX UI rules, but Adobe's applications have followed the same basic conventions for many years.
As for "adapting" to a CorelDRAW UI, I use the Windows version and I will NOT use the stock, vanilla UI of CorelDRAW as installed. There's a number of key functions missing from the tool bar, basic things like screen navigation. Corel has never adopted the Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Spacebar short cut combos common to Adobe's applications for zooming in/out and hand-panning the view. So I have to at least be able to add a few tools up top, such as the "One Shot Zoom" tool, to make the program not suck out loud for usability.
With that being said, if the Mac version of CorelDRAW forces users to just go with the stock vanilla version of the UI as installed and offers little in the way of UI customization options, then yes, users do have a very legit complaint to make. Most of the people buying CorelDRAW for the Mac are existing CorelDRAW users who ran it in a Windows shell on their Macs. They're used to Corel being able to work a certain way. Taking away the options to tailor the UI to one's own likes is akin to taking one of the wheels off a car.
WildWestDesigns said:
I never used Adobe Illustrator 2, but did use version 4. It was pretty primitive and lacked a lot of functions one could find in CorelDRAW, or even Freehand. Adobe Illustrator 6 was a Mac-only release, as was versions 5 and 5.5. Adobe didn't start doing dual platform releases of Illustrator until version 7.
WildWestDesigns said:
The Corel company (or the venture capital owners calling the shots) has compounded its problems three-fold. Both the Windows and new Mac versions of CorelDRAW 2019 have serious performance issues that remain un-fixed. CorelDRAW 2019 has unwelcome changes in both Windows and Mac versions. Topping it off is the absolutely ridiculous new upgrade policy, threatening to go into effect sometime "very soon" according to the frequent pop-ups.
Macromedia put Freehand onto its death bed with far fewer mistakes than this.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Internal/external, still a factor that has to be dealt with and I don't see it having changed that much to where it isn't an issue still.
Very outside chance even if they did hit that release out of the park.
Up to CS6 it was there, but (for me) it was in a limited fashion (I've seen far better abilities within their CC line that I would have enjoyed far more). No where near the level of customization that I have with other programs. Is it customization, yes, but certainly nothing to write home about until we started getting into their CC lineup, so really only in the last decade.
If a program is no longer usable for you, then swap. It's that simple. How they do things, how they setup the UI and all that, is up to them. If they choose to remove options, that's under their ability to do so. May not be good, I/"you" may not like it, but it's their choice to make.
Don't like it, go to something else.
Not having options is why I switched my entire platform to something else entirely. I'm not unsympathetic to the plight, but it does require one to make the change, if you believe that the program is totally unusable to you.
Customizing UI is not analogous to that. It's an efficiency hit, but it doesn't totally render it unusable. It may require relearning or adapting to a different workflow. That does take an efficiency hit, but I'm used to programs (that cost significantly more then this, regardless of which method of licensing Corel that one is talking about) that would do major radical UI changes on the same platform (only Windows) every new release. Key bindings, tool groupings etc (and there is no ability to setup a unique workspace in this program, none) are different every new release.
I didn't say 6 was a Windows release, it was where parity between the 2 platforms being used was getting there. That's the point, what was on Mac stopped being quite as different then what was on Windows.
I don't disagree with you in the part of this causing issues, here is the thing though, if it no longer has the efficiency that you need/want, switch. Pure and simple.
They can either listen and change or "you" switch to something else.
They don't have to change, that's their decision to do so. Now, it may run the program into the ground (which could happen regardless if it's done by venture capitalist or somebody else calling the shots), but times change. Have to change with the times.
It's said that when programs that were one's favorites has that happen to them, but have to move on.
myront
Dammit, make it faster!!
Uhhh. Corel is way easier to customize than illustrator. You can do a ton more customizing too. Create your own toolbars, add/subtract tools, assign any key combo and save workspaces too.
Want to delete a tool simply hold alt and drag the icon into the workspace. Tucks it away but you can put it back if you want. Fwiw most seasoned users delete 3/4 of the default tools i.e. import/export, undo, copy/paste etc. If you don't use the most common key commands or icons you're too slow. Still amazing/annoying to see someone move above the new page icon and click file then click new, same with copy/paste
My workspace is ever changing. Once I make a useful time saving macro it gets added to a toolbar or I assign a key command.
Number 1 reason to learn Corel? You can actually learn it without any "formal training" or tutorials. Been using Corel for over 20 years. Completely self taught. Hate illustrator every time I open it. It's like going into someones kitchen to get a glass of water and you rummage thru the cabinets to find a glass or cup. You search and search for an hour. Finally you ask and they tell you "oh, they're in the attic under the stack of magazines.". Oh yeah, where else would they be!
Why can't you marquee select shapes without grabbing everything the marquee touches?!
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WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Bobby is talking specifically about this latest version and how it applies to Mac. It apparently had a regression with regard to Mac and how it handles customization with the end user.
myront said:
I never said Adobe Illustrator was more customizable than the Windows version of CorelDRAW. But the fact remains you can add or remove many palettes and/or tools in a given workspace. Plus Illustrator has 9 different pre-set workspaces you can choose as a starting point. One thing I don't like about Illustrator is its odd drop-down menu structure. Can't really do anything about that.
The Windows version of CorelDRAW does indeed allow users to create whole new tool bars they can fill from dozens upon dozens of functions. The Mac version apparently offers none of that. And that stinks.
myront said:
Are you implying I don't know how to use CorelDRAW? I've been using it since 1990, getting close to 30 years. I've been using Adobe Illustrator since 1993. No one could make me a fanboy of either application at gunpoint. They both have own their unique strengths and weaknesses. I use both applications heavily on a daily basis. The very awesome plug-ins sold by Astute Graphics make Illustrator even more fun to use.
myront said:
There are pros and cons to Illustrator's approach of object selection, just like there are pros and cons to Corel's approach of requiring the user to either directly click an object or marquee-select by dragging a box all the way around an object. In Illustrator's outline view I can do some very quick and precise selections of objects in a mess of complex art by not having to drag selection box around the entire perimeter of an object.
Jim Hill
New Member
So far we have talked about Corel going the subscription route and what it means for everyone who uses this product.
Once a private equity firm is in charge my guess is many things are about to change for Corel employees and the general work conditions also.
Another tactic they use is to move the company to another state and city where they can demand large tax breaks in their real estate bills along with other concessions.
Private equity firms believe it is also their responsibility to squeeze every penny they can out of the company to make it more profitable to someday sell to another privater equity firm.
It would not surprise me a withing the next few years the costs for using Corel went even higher.
Just my opinion. Jim Hill
Once a private equity firm is in charge my guess is many things are about to change for Corel employees and the general work conditions also.
Another tactic they use is to move the company to another state and city where they can demand large tax breaks in their real estate bills along with other concessions.
Private equity firms believe it is also their responsibility to squeeze every penny they can out of the company to make it more profitable to someday sell to another privater equity firm.
It would not surprise me a withing the next few years the costs for using Corel went even higher.
Just my opinion. Jim Hill
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
With Corel, this would also mean moving to a different country as it's based out of Canada, if they are going to go stateside. Unless they are able to change Province and follow the same game plan, but stay up in Canada.