Face-palm / No taste

[Colin]

Here's another example of what people wind up with when they shop for the lowest price. This is the back & forth email I had with this guy (me in blue):



We recently purchased a Grand Banks 32 trawler and are changing the name.

The vessel carries the typical GB teak signboards port & starboard on the bridge. The area where the lettering will be applied is approximately 29” X 4”. The new name is Shearwater.
As you may know, the traditional GB lettering is gold/yellowish-gold, often with a black shadow effect.

Would you be able to provide me with the fonts that you have available – in particular those you feel would be suitable for this application? As well as the more traditional fonts, I have also been thinking of a simple, easy-to-read script style in upper and lower case. I also thought of a small, subtle image of a Shearwater (a small soaring gull with very long wings) at the end of the name.

Your thoughts, suggestions, ideas...?

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Sounds good, thanks for the thorough information.

I have over 100,000 fonts, so it’s not really possible to make them available. Based on your description, I can certainly design something you’d like and provide you with a proof, but in order to commence with design work (which is an inherent part of doing the job), I do require a deposit of some kind. I accept Visa or AmEx if that helps.

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Thank you for your quick response Colin. One or two clarifications please...

Presumably there will be some back and forth discussion after you submit your initial proof, and perhaps one or two additional versions for any changes/modifications. Assuming this is the case, please give me an idea of the cost to design and make the lettering for the two boards.

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Yes, I’ll give you a few options.

Am I just providing you with the lettering, or would you be bringing the boards to me for applying the lettering to the boards as well?

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I would apply them myself.

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OK, to design & produce the 2-colour lettering would be $120.00. I could do the installation for you for $30.00

Unless you have applied vinyl graphics a lot, it’s not as easy as most people think.

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Thanks very much for your time Colin. I will get back to you.

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Hello again Colin,

Wanted to let you know that I have come up with another solution this time around.
Thank you for your time - I’ve heard very good things about your work and will keep your contact information close at hand.

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*At this point I was tempted to say something like: “I’m confused; you’ve heard very good things about my work, but you don’t want to use me?” But I didn’t. I just said:

I’d be interested to see the result with a photo.

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(I received a photo yesterday by email - the one I've named "Ugh")

".....here is a picture of the mounted name boards for Shearwater."

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Yes, that’s the sort of thing one gets when shopping for the cheapest price. I probably would have done something like this (attached) with or without the bird graphic.

Have a good summer.

 

[binki]

I like it when a story has a happy ending.

 

[Jillbeans]

The font he chose is one I hate. I hate it more than Brush Script, Comic Sans, and Curlz combined.
He probably won't appreciate your nice example because he has a stiffy for the nasty thing he chose.
Love....Jill

 

[Colin]

Thanks Jill.

It's always a tough call; we stick to our guns on the "deposit" issue and we protect ourselves from having our design/artwork "shopped around" or flat-out stolen and used by someone else, but at the same time we risk losing a potential customer (like I did in this example).

The only reason why I went ahead and supplied this guy with a proof after-the-fact of what it could have looked like is that it frosted me, and I wanted him to see what he lost out on. Given that so many people don't have an eye for good design, I even wonder if he'll see the difference.

 

[GAC05]

I wonder if he paid extra for the kerning on his layout......

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Colin]

I wonder if he paid extra for the kerning on his layout.

Heh heh, ya, and I love those two big black spikes hanging down at the bottom of the "w".

I suspect that he just phoned around and went with the lowest price, and this is what that particular sign shop came up with.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

So what... you lost a $150 bid which seemed to be fair. yes they lost out yours was more readable if that was the goal for them.

Just think some shop did it for less, which means you made money by not dealing with them ...celebrate

Now ...Few years from now when you have held your ground on better prices .. you can buy a new cutter/printer/ PC/software while they will be struggling with old & more then likely going out of business or they have been working like dogs just to keep afloat.
Maybe at best cause they are good at other things still in business lots of customers ok fine .. But you will have a better clients that pay better & you will be on vacation when ya want relaxing.

Hint, Use this type of loss to drive you not to hinder you.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Your problem is that the vast majority of people out there will look at the two layouts and if you ask them the difference all they can tell you is that one is in cursive and the other one has a bird. They can't actually see the difference and don't care. You're just sticking stickers on a board.

 

[Colin]

Your problem is that the vast majority of people out there will look at the two layouts and if you ask them the difference all they can tell you is that one is in cursive and the other one has a bird. They can't actually see the difference and don't care. You're just sticking stickers on a board.

Sadly, I'd say you are correct in your assessment; I've had the same experience with photography.

Within the last hour, I received an email from this customer, and it goes like this:



Feedback is always appreciated Colin.

I am however curious as what your meaning is with the phrase “...the sort of thing one gets...” – what sort of thing did I get?




I'm wondering how to respond.

 

[anotherdog]

see we almost had a happy ending to this morality tale.

The sign shop stood its ground to a cheapskate and saw the crap they ended up with, the cheapskate got a deal and stuck it on the boat himself. Then you had to tell him... "he got what he paid for". This can't end well.

Honestly I'm going to put this one in my Christmas cards.

 

[binki]

I'm wondering how to respond.

Don't. See how long it takes him to call you.

 

[Colin]

Don't. See how long it takes him to call you.

I think I'd rather collect my thoughts and get them across in an email as opposed to a phone call.

 

[Custom_Grafx]

To the first email, after having gone through this so many times, I have learnt (and it doesn't mean it applies to you, but it does work for me), I would have replied - "Thank you for the opportunity to quote, and for the information. What is your budget? I have something to suit everyone - from stock template style using temporary grade materials to fully customised and stylised using 7 years + premium materials, ranging between $50 and $300".

Doing this, would at least get him into your ideal order range of around $150, while sounding like a good deal, and at the same time sounding like you know what you are talking about, offering options, being professional, all that crap... and if you're lucky and/or he happens to be in the mood that day, you might end up selling the $300 option, whatever that may be.

Just my two cents, unless I missed something here and don't understand why the client was victimised to the extent he was.

 

[Colin]

To the first email, after having gone through this so many times, I have learnt (and it doesn't mean it applies to you, but it does work for me), I would have replied - "Thank you for the opportunity to quote, and for the information. What is your budget? I have something to suit everyone - from stock template style using temporary grade materials to fully customised and stylised using 7 years + premium materials, ranging between $50 and $300".

Yes, there's something to be said for that approach, although, I've heard it said that the last thing one ought to say is "what's your budget", as that can scare 'em away like scared rabbits. To your latter point, this job would not have ranged from $50-$300. I never use calendered vinyl for boat names, and even with not so much design time as he indicated would be involved, I would not have done it for as little as $50. Even if I had used artificial gold leaf, I wouldn't be as much as $300 either (unless he pushed the job into hours & hours of design time knowing full well that he's being charged by the hour).

Just my two cents, unless I missed something here and don't understand why the client was victimised to the extent he was.

Victimized? I don't get that. Do you mean villainized?

I guess for me it was just another case of the customer shopping purely based on price alone, thinking that he's going to get the same thing from each sign shop, when we clearly know that isn't the case. If it were just a NO PARKING sign, I could understand that approach, but people generally want their boat names to look really nice and artistic.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

I think I'd rather collect my thoughts and get them across in an email as opposed to a phone call.

Any "Grand Banks" ...regardless of size, deserves far more than a mediocre 'font' with poor kerning. Shameful!

 

[Jillbeans]

Yup, even though it felt good and justified to send him the sketch, he probably still likes the one with the bird. Would have been better to leave things alone. I would not reply to the last email, I'd let it go.

I am such a snob and a real b!tch about signs. I can't help it. I have seen the utter crap that some people have settled for and I have to put in my 2¢ most of the time or at least do the old side eye-eye-roll at it.

Lately I have had a good bit of logo design work (yay!) and I have to bite my tongue SO hard to not be snotty when people show me their "logo". While I do get most of the stuff I quote these days, because people do like my style, I have to be careful to not seem like a sign c*nt. Most times people are in love with the Microsoft Word logo their teenage daughter doodled up.

And while you can educate, or try to educate, a client on why yours is better, whether it's because of the grade of material you use or your kerning skills etc etc, some people really do want sh!t. I think this client just wanted cheap and a bird on there. Yours is far nicer...add a bird and it would be perfect but he probably still would have wanted it for $50.

Two of my latest projects have been where I did my very best work, only to have it rejected and replaced with pretty much the client paying me to guide my hand on the mouse. Will I show anyone these logos and signs? Hell no. Was I happy to take their money? Yes! Better me than the local hack. Does it bug me? No, but it makes me sad and frustrated. But still better than a real job.

I like the idea of asking about a budget but I agree that it scares most clients. I like the three tired pricing approach, but I never offer cheap materials so my tiers are going to cost more. In two years, when his crappy boat lettering peels off or fades, maybe he will come back to you. But odds are he will just show the sketch you gave him for free to the cheap guy to replicate.

 

[peavey123]

Your lettering obviously much nicer, but I just had a thought. After he went elsewhere, you sent him what he would have paid you $120 for anyways, did you not just de-value your design time there? May have been a better idea to send him some of your best prior work instead. I dunno?...Just a thought...

 

[skyhigh]

In two years, when his crappy boat lettering peels off or fades, maybe he will come back to you. But odds are he will just show the sketch you gave him for free to the cheap guy to replicate.

I can see that happening.

What was the font you used Colin?

 

[Billct2]

I've seen worse, lots worse.
In his mind he got what he wanted for a better price.

 

[Colin]

Your lettering obviously much nicer, but I just had a thought. After he went elsewhere, you sent him what he would have paid you $120 for anyways, did you not just de-value your design time there?

I addressed that in post #4.