FSpro 7.6 v.2 ...No HASP Replacement from SAI??

[Onebadbug]

No never thought they would have one just sitting on the shelf covered in dust at all...

but when you have all the original information (user#, 20 digit key-code imprinted on each key and makes it unique & the original 16 digit install license code) and all of this jives with my original registration and all the original purchase reciept. C'mon... its a simple crazy chinse crappy piece of hardware that gets burned with that information and then shove in a USB port... not the keys to the space shuttle. I don't care who makes them I'm sure the process of them being made has not changed over the years no matter who makes them then or now.

So, if you can still buy extra keys for V10 then why can't they make a replacement?

 

[buttons]

I'm kind of with you, there has to better way to control licenses than dongles.

Not that it's much better, but try signcut or see if you can get a driver to cut from another program. (didn't read the whole thread so I didn't see if you said you do or dont have corel/illustrator)

Or just not lose them. I've never lost keys, wallet, glasses, software discs or anything of importance. If I know I may need something I put it in a place where it will be kept safe.

 

[Onebadbug]

Or just not lose them. I've never lost keys, wallet, glasses, software discs or anything of importance. If I know I may need something I put it in a place where it will be kept safe.

Try having a stroke and then close a business you've owned successfully for over 15 years, now have all of your employees pack everything into 2-300 storage boxes for not being able to do it yourself and then pile them into a storage space floor to ceiling...

it's very easy for a tiny purple key get a mind of its own and hide somewhere in a box laughing while it plays hide and seek.
:Oops:

 

[andy]

It is an unfortunate situation. I have heard similar circumstances many times.

Here is my take (and take it for what it is worth): If you lost the dongle, you also lost the 6 digit code that is on the dongle label. That number is all someone needs in order to reinstall the software on another computer. Whether it was stolen or lost, it is gone.

I like comparing it to TV that you bought from Best Buy. If your TV (worth thousands of $$$) was to suddenly to come up missing (or stolen), what would you do? I would probably call my insurance company and file a claim, not drive down to Best Buy and ask for a new one. Essentially, this is the same situation.

It really sucks that you lost it. I understand the frustration for sure, but you have to look at it from the other side too. They sold you software with a security dongle and you lost it. There isn't much that they can do about that. If it was broken, they would try and replace it with a new one (for some kind of fee I would assume). In this situation, it is old enough that they can't get those dongles anymore. But again, not really their fault.

Would you try this with Adobe? Say your Creative Suite software (CS2, many years old and originally cost quiite a few $$$) software was lost or stolen, do you think that they wold just ship you out a new copy and key? I doubt it.

They are not trying to be unreasonable at all. I am sure Eduardo doesn't enjoy the idea of your software being lost. It is not a big consipracy to get you to buy new software. They are just protecting themselves. You may ask, why me? I am not a bad person. I wouldn't steal anything. Why can't they make this one exception? All reasonable questions, but rest assured, it is not just you who has run into this same problem. Some folks are being honest and others are not. It is impossible for SAi to tell who is telling the truth and who is not.

I have met a large portion of the SAi crew and I can tell you from experience that they are a great group of people. I have seen them bend over backwards on many occasions to help out a customer. They are giving you an option. They will discount your upgrade to the current version. You also have options of your own (insurance) and even after your deducible, you may have enough to pay for that discounted upgrade, so it could be very little $$$ out of pocket for you. That soulds reasonable to me.

Protecting themselves from what? Repeat customers? A loyal customer base?

If SAi think that hardware keys really do protect their software from hackers I can only assume that internet connectivity is yet to reach the SAi command bunker.. anyone else with Google and a functioning keyboard can find a veritable cornucopia of "specialist" sign software with all the hardware protection features cheerfully ripped out..... typically by some Russian schoolkid in his basement.

Dongles don't stop piracy but they work really well at pi$$ing off the legitimate customers who've paid an eyewatering price for not much more than a pale imitation of CorelDraw with a few special sign makers "knobs" bolted on.

If I were the OP I'd buy Corel 12 for $50 and some el cheapo cutter interface software and have done with it.

 

[signage]

I never said you were a theif all I said is that is the reasons they have for what they do!

 

[jiarby]

there has to better way to control licenses than dongles.

hehehe... Better for YOU, or better for the people selling $x,xxx software?? Using a HASP Hardware Dongle makes getting paid for software alot easier and dramatically reduces software piracy.

Without the dongle their sales go down alot because of piracy.

 

[Onebadbug]

....If I were the OP I'd buy Corel 12 for $50 and some el cheapo cutter interface software and have done with it.

I am doing that now... but from the X4 suite and the original ioline software/drivers that came with it... its just very difficult, for me, doing it with proficiency compared in what I used to do so comfortable extremely flexible enviroment when going from a raw design, to definition and then producing the final product... Lets face it FS dumps 100 scratch heads in the middle of the HPGL gray-matter and the inherent general style issues issues from this format to that machine and all the MFR and each standard yet proprietary language *translation quirks*...

Takes me 10X the time to refine his simple designs compared to just the straight forward "wham-bam & yer done" from Flexi.

 

[LoneRanger01]

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here but You people buying this expensive software is no different than some one buying a new car. In order to maintain your new car warranty you must use original factory parts until the warranty has expired. Now in Flexi's own words they no longer support or service ver.7.0. They can not even replace his dongle even if he had a broken one to send them. So what is wrong with having the ver.7.0 cracked? When your car warranty runs out you use after market parts if you cant afford to replace the old car with a new one.....Also, they have ways of checking to see if in fact his dongle has been reregersted or is being used by some one else.

 

[OADesign]

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here but You people buying this expensive software is no different than some one buying a new car. In order to maintain your new car warranty you must use original factory parts until the warranty has expired. Now in Flexi's own words they no longer support or service ver.7.0. They can not even replace his dongle even if he had a broken one to send them. So what is wrong with having the ver.7.0 cracked? When your car warranty runs out you use after market parts if you cant afford to replace the old car with a new one.....Also, they have ways of checking to see if in fact his dongle has been reregersted or is being used by some one else.

I somewhat agree. I would love to hear what the gallery has to say about this. But you are straddling a fine line here even with this site's TOS.

 

[SignBurst PCs]

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here but You people buying this expensive software is no different than some one buying a new car. In order to maintain your new car warranty you must use original factory parts until the warranty has expired. Now in Flexi's own words they no longer support or service ver.7.0. They can not even replace his dongle even if he had a broken one to send them. So what is wrong with having the ver.7.0 cracked? When your car warranty runs out you use after market parts if you cant afford to replace the old car with a new one.....Also, they have ways of checking to see if in fact his dongle has been reregersted or is being used by some one else.

Piracy is illegal. Cracked software is stealing, period (old or new).

Using your car analogy, if your car was lost or stolen (even if old and out of warranty), you wouldn't call the dealer for a replacement, you would call your insurance company and file a claim and buy a new one. If you didn't have insurance, you would have to suck it up and pay for a replacement.

There is NO WAY to find out if the Flexi dongle is being used by someone else. That is the whole idea behind a dongle, you don't have to be connected to the Internet or to some registration server somewhere in order to use the software. If it was a softkey, probably, but not a hardware dongle.

I am not trying to be argumentative about this at all. It just seems to be a hard concept for some folks. SAi isn't being unreasonable or trying to cheat anyone here. They are just being practical.

 

[LoneRanger01]

"Piracy is illegal. Cracked software is stealing, period (old or new). " Not true. A sign maker has a legit copy of CasMate Pro. He wants to install it on his new computer that has Win XP Pro for an OS. His new computer does not have a comm port or a LPT port for the dongle and CasMate no longer services the software. I cracked CasMate Pro for him and installed it onto his laptop so he can use it without the dongle and use it with Windows XP Pro. What exactly has been stolen and from whom was it stolen?
As for my car comparison...the car represents the software and the car parts represents the dongle. So if a car part fails to work or is lost it would not and is not unreasonable to ask the car dealer for a new part. If the dealer no longer services or stocks the parts then it is not unreasonable for the car owner to buy or find after market parts to fix the car. BTW....only an idiot would ever think of asking a dealer to replace the whole car if it were stolen........or lost.
And just so you know, when you go on line to down load a patch or update you copy of flexi they know if your copy is legit and they know your key codes and registation numbers. I have written a number of software programs and my software ,like win 95 even tells me how many time my software program has been reinstalled. I personally believe that when a software company stops servicing and supporting the software program that a person buys from them then what ever agreement that was between the buyer and seller is no longer enforceable. I don't believe the buyer should be at the mercy of the software seller and be forced to up grade or buy new software because the seller decieded that they will no longer service or support what the buyer bought from them.

 

[SignBurst PCs]

"Piracy is illegal. Cracked software is stealing, period (old or new). " Not true. A sign maker has a legit copy of CasMate Pro. He wants to install it on his new computer that has Win XP Pro for an OS. His new computer does not have a comm port or a LPT port for the dongle and CasMate no longer services the software. I cracked CasMate Pro for him and installed it onto his laptop so he can use it without the dongle and use it with Windows XP Pro. What exactly has been stolen and from whom was it stolen?
As for my car comparison...the car represents the software and the car parts represents the dongle. So if a car part fails to work or is lost it would not and is not unreasonable to ask the car dealer for a new part. If the dealer no longer services or stocks the parts then it is not unreasonable for the car owner to buy or find after market parts to fix the car. BTW....only an idiot would ever think of asking a dealer to replace the whole car if it were stolen........or lost.
And just so you know, when you go on line to down load a patch or update you copy of flexi they know if your copy is legit and they know your key codes and registation numbers. I have written a number of software programs and my software ,like win 95 even tells me how many time my software program has been reinstalled. I personally believe that when a software company stops servicing and supporting the software program that a person buys from them then what ever agreement that was between the buyer and seller is no longer enforceable. I don't believe the buyer should be at the mercy of the software seller and be forced to up grade or buy new software because the seller decieded that they will no longer service or support what the buyer bought from them.

Determining the legality of an EULA is way beyond me, but most software companies do list "cracked" software (or using cracked software) as prohibited. Just because you don't like it or have found a way around it doesn't mean it isn't illegal. What was stolen? Realistically? The ability or opportunity to sell a newer version of the product that is supported. Like it or not, that is the world we live in. I am not agreeing with it, just making an argument with some legal footing.

In my world, I am permitted to sell and install LEGAL versions of the Microsoft Windows operating system on computer hardware. I am not, however, permitted to install "cracked" or "altered" versions of the software under any circumstance (even if I provide a legal license key).

In the circumstance you listed, I can see how one could find it morally acceptable, but not legally permitted. There is a difference.

I did understand your car analogy, but I was twisting it a bit to make a point. The OP was basically wanting to go back to the dealer because his car was lost or stolen.

I don't think that anyone is an idiot here. I just believe that sometimes it is hard to differentiate between morally and legally prohibited. I have seen the folks at SAi make many concessions in the attempt to satisfy a customer, but the software company has to draw a line somewhere and it seems that the lack of availability of the hardware dongle limited their options.

You are correct, if you called them, they would know. But right now, I can download a full version of Flexi 10 from the website without calling anyone. I can also download the update installers without touching the phone. In addition, if you are OK with using cracked software, it would stand to reason that you are OK with using cracked updates to that same software.

It is just hard for me to justify the use of cracked or pirated software, legally or morally.

 

[LoneRanger01]

"What was stolen? Realistically? The ability or opportunity to sell a newer version of the product that is supported. Like it or not, that is the world we live in. I am not agreeing with it, just making an argument with some legal footing."......The ability to sell a newer version? CasMate was and is no more. What newer version were they denied the sale of?

And just so you know......when you goto or log on to SAi website to do anything, their computers communicate with yours and they do check key codes and serial numbers, just like Microsoft does when you go to their website to update or down load a patch. A phone has nothing to do with anything and again just so you know there is no such a thing as a "cracked update".

I once wrote a software program for a coal mine in Wyoming. This program predicts when a machine is going to break down before it actually does break down. Now I believe that as long as the coal mine is using my software program and they do not break our agreement then I am duty bound to service and support that software program, even if I design a newer and better program. I feel it would be wrong to force the coal mine to purchase a newer version of my software by me telling them I no longer will support or service the old software program.
And so you don't get the wrong idea about me, I do not sit here and crack software just for the sake of doing it. I do it for only my computer customer and only with a justifyable reason such as the software comany went out of business or the software company no longer supports the program. I have never done it just for money. I just take really good care of my customers. I've been a Microsoft OEM sytem builder for almost fifteen years and while I choose who can and will buy my computers, I treat every one of them (my customers) like they were gold.In case you are wondering why I choose the people who buy my computer, I believe that there are some people who should never get close to a computer and life is short enough without having to go and look for another headache......

 

[SignBurst PCs]

"What was stolen? Realistically? The ability or opportunity to sell a newer version of the product that is supported. Like it or not, that is the world we live in. I am not agreeing with it, just making an argument with some legal footing."......The ability to sell a newer version? CasMate was and is no more. What newer version were they denied the sale of?

And just so you know......when you goto or log on to SAi website to do anything, their computers communicate with yours and they do check key codes and serial numbers, just like Microsoft does when you go to their website to update or down load a patch. A phone has nothing to do with anything and again just so you know there is no such a thing as a "cracked update".

I once wrote a software program for a coal mine in Wyoming. This program predicts when a machine is going to break down before it actually does break down. Now I believe that as long as the coal mine is using my software program and they do not break our agreement then I am duty bound to service and support that software program, even if I design a newer and better program. I feel it would be wrong to force the coal mine to purchase a newer version of my software by me telling them I no longer will support or service the old software program.
And so you don't get the wrong idea about me, I do not sit here and crack software just for the sake of doing it. I do it for only my computer customer and only with a justifyable reason such as the software comany went out of business or the software company no longer supports the program. I have never done it just for money. I just take really good care of my customers. I've been a Microsoft OEM sytem builder for almost fifteen years and while I choose who can and will buy my computers, I treat every one of them (my customers) like they were gold.In case you are wondering why I choose the people who buy my computer, I believe that there are some people who should never get close to a computer and life is short enough without having to go and look for another headache......

I am not judging anyone... I don't know you from Adam. I am sure that you take very good care of your customers. I guess piracy and cracked software is a line I refuse to cross. I get a sweet little email about once a month from Microsoft letting me know which software and hardware companies they are prosecuting for piracy and licensing violations.

If a software company supported all their software forever, it wouldn't take long to go out of business. That would be like a sign company guaranteeing their vinyl (or signs) forever. Not smart business.

As far as SAi (or Microsoft) checking on your computer and licenses when you visit their website, I will have to disagree with you there. While MS does have some license verification utilities (and may require you to verify that your software is authentic before downloading and installing updates), they don't get activated just from visiting their website. As far as SAi goes, I have never seen any indication of their website doing anything of the sort, ever. Their softkey is the closest thing to that and it isn't used if you have a hardware dongle. You can run Flexi completely void of Internet if you have a hardware dongle.

I feel for the OP here, I really do. I just don't think that SAi is doing anything wrong.

 

[SignBurst PCs]

I believe that CasMate was bought by Scanvec (of Scanvec Amiable International or SAi). I maybe wrong, but I believe that it is something along those lines. So ultimately, you are cracking an SAi owned product. SAi's Flexi 10 would be the current software upgrade in the path. I don't know the specifics of who owns what, but if you are unsure of who's software you are installing cracked versions of, you can ask them (SAi), they are a Merchant Member here.

 

[LoneRanger01]

I really don't care if you agree with me or not. It doesn't change the fact that they do check for valid key codes. And no, they are not going to tell you that they are checking either. And it doesn't matter if you can run Flexi without being on the internet, when you do go to their website they check.
Also you are wrong about Flexi 10 being the next up grade for CasMate. When I cracked CasMate Flexi 7 had just come out and the sign maker had it. And quite frankly I don't care. I am not installing or selling cracked versions of any software on any computers. The sign maker had the dongle and CasMate would no longer support their program so I cracked it for him so he could us e it on a laptop with Windows XP Pro. I make no apologies to any one for anything I have done.

Why would you think that if someone doesn't keep up dating their software program they will go broke or out of business? After fifteen years am I supose to be broke? I guess I'm just doing things wrong..........woe is me. Maybe that would be true if all I did was write little cheap auto cad programs, however my cheapest software program is a POS program for a large bar and it starts at 40 grand without the cash registers. The program for the coal mine was 200000. plus and I don't think they would want to pay that every time I decided to up grade the software. On the lighter side of things I design cockpits for aircraft flight sims. and I do that for free along with the outside paint patterns.

While you maybe right that SAi did nothing wrong it is my personal opinin that they could have done a little more to help him instead of giving him two reasons why they can not help and then try and sell him another program. It is always easier to find reasons why not to help some one rather than going that little extra distance and helping some one. But then there is that all mighty dollar sign standing in the way of helping people.......
You have a nice day...........

 

[Techman]

Just for the record...
First, I am in no way an expert on any of this. I have not worked on any security projects on at least 8 years..
Second I have no care about any of the morality of it all. That judgment is not my call.


a number of years ago...
There was an exemption for abandoned or non supported software that allowed someone to circumvent security devices (dongles).

I heard it expired. I also heard it was to be extended. However I have not followed up on this..
In any case it was granted to allow a user of a legally owned software who was locked out of his software due to the closing of the author or abandonment or other reason to crack his legally owned product.

There were dozens of allowances made simply because so many users were left holding the bag so to speak. It was felt that locking legal software was an unfair practice.

Jail breaking software and phones and other equipment seems to be a practice soon to be allowed in certain cases that some would consider wrong.

As of July 30 2010
Early this week, the U.S. Library of Congress updated the rules of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)— the law that controls copyright enforcement— to allow greater flexibility of use. Under the new rules, legitimate users will not be punished for circumventing technologies that control access to certain copyrighted materials.

rule number 5
Obsolete dongles can now be defeated. A dongle is a piece of hardware for a computer that you attach to the machine in order to make secured software run. Under the new rules, if a dongle is damaged, obsolete, no longer manufactured, or malfunctioning, you can circumvent it in order to use the protected program.


rule 6
You can “unlock” your copy of an e-book in order to have software read it aloud. However, this only applies to literary works where all their e-book editions are encrypted to prevent read-aloud or text-rendering functions.

There are many changes coming concerning fair use. Some of us may be well advised to do our own research concerning dongles, hardware and allowed usages and jail breaking.

The reason is that some are abusing the DMCA to stifle innovation.

 

[SignBurst PCs]

I really don't care if you agree with me or not. It doesn't change the fact that they do check for valid key codes. And no, they are not going to tell you that they are checking either. And it doesn't matter if you can run Flexi without being on the internet, when you do go to their website they check.
Also you are wrong about Flexi 10 being the next up grade for CasMate. When I cracked CasMate Flexi 7 had just come out and the sign maker had it. And quite frankly I don't care. I am not installing or selling cracked versions of any software on any computers. The sign maker had the dongle and CasMate would no longer support their program so I cracked it for him so he could us e it on a laptop with Windows XP Pro. I make no apologies to any one for anything I have done.

Why would you think that if someone doesn't keep up dating their software program they will go broke or out of business? After fifteen years am I supose to be broke? I guess I'm just doing things wrong..........woe is me. Maybe that would be true if all I did was write little cheap auto cad programs, however my cheapest software program is a POS program for a large bar and it starts at 40 grand without the cash registers. The program for the coal mine was 200000. plus and I don't think they would want to pay that every time I decided to up grade the software. On the lighter side of things I design cockpits for aircraft flight sims. and I do that for free along with the outside paint patterns.

While you maybe right that SAi did nothing wrong it is my personal opinin that they could have done a little more to help him instead of giving him two reasons why they can not help and then try and sell him another program. It is always easier to find reasons why not to help some one rather than going that little extra distance and helping some one. But then there is that all mighty dollar sign standing in the way of helping people.......
You have a nice day...........

I am quite impressed with the scope of your work. I am not arguing the validity of your software development skills in the least (or your net worth). I am happy for you. It is always good to see someone get ahead.

I just think that you are arguing the point for the sake of argument. Being a software developer, you must see the danger of piracy and cracking of software. Your obscure examples don't take away from the fact that piracy and cracking software is damaging to the software industry and the folks who pay their hard earned money to buy legitimate software. Promoting it in any form is not something I will do.

You must also see the downfalls of a company such as SAi (or Adobe, Corel, MS, Onyx, Cadlink, or Apple, etc) supporting a software version forever. It would be a nightmare and they would be run over by their competition. All major software companies have to continually work to create newer and hopefully better) versions of their software in order to keep up. With all those resources focused on the next, bigger, better thing, it would be practically impossible to continually support ALL of their older versions. With someone like yourself, who creates niche software, that isn't necessarily the case. I understand that.

This thread is about a person who lost a hardware license device (dongle) and was hoping to get a replacement for the lost device from the software developer. It is a very unfortunate situation, but my point is that the developer isn't doing anything out of the ordinary or wrong in this case. I happen to personally have spent some time with the folks from SAi and have found them to be a very generous and good group of people and didn't want to see them characterized as a bunch of money grubbing software overlords. They are the kind of people that help if at all possible. They are not the kind of folks to look for excuses to not help and make more $$$.

 

[LoneRanger01]

"They are not the kind of folks to look for excuses to not help and make more $$$. " And yet their letter to the OP is a prime example of what you say they are not. They gave two reasons on why they can not help him then offered to sell him a new program. And in your own words software companies are in it for the money.
Had I been SAi this is how I would have handled the peoblem. Fact: All software programs have a back door. SAi could have remotely hooked up to the OP's comuter and replaced the file that operates the dongle allowing the OP to use his flexi prograqm for a certain ammount of time, say 90 days.
Don't believe me? try this if you have an old copy of casmate pro. install it and when it asks for the key code type in "12345" and then continue. after you finish installing it if you replace the "CAS_WIN.EXE" file with the right one casmate will work without the dongle.

I'm sure SAi is a great company to both do business with and work for but in both your words and their actions, they are in business to make money not help people with their problems.
Piracy and cracking are two different things. Piracy is when you buy a music cd from wally world then make a copy of it to give to a friend or to put in your car or even copy it to your hard drive. Piracy is buying a software program and making copies of it to give away of to sell. And yes that is stealing, no ifs ands or buts about it!
Cracking is breaking another persons or companies security code. Depending on why a person is cracking the code would deterimne if he/she were just in doing so. Cracking is a grey area and there is no right or wrong reason for doing it. Here is something for you to think about.....why don't these companies make their software crack proof? Impossible you say.....hog wash I say. In 15 years none of my software has ever been cracked. Why? Because my software allows only one guess at the 8 letter 4 number password. If you guess wron the software goes into protection mode that then turns on a program that reverse the polarity on every peice of hardware hooked up to and installed in the computer. This makes me wonder why these companies allow people or hackers to keep guessing at their passwords? Maybe these companies want their software cracked.....The fact is they could make their software crack proof if they wanted to. I did and god knows I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.
One last thing...These "sweet emails" you get from Microsoft. Are they the ones that they sent to all OEM system builders about their war on piracy or are they directed to you personally and if so why would Microsoft find it nessasary to send you information on who and why they are prosecuting some one for piracy? just curious.

Good post Techman