Give Up Hire a Professional

[Marlene]

Originally Posted by ForgeInc
Pretty sure this was directed at me. Now, I don't want to override the thread for a dumb pissing match, but you might want to know a little more about who you are calling a "newbie"

don't worry, the OP is a pinhead. we were doing our best to play nice as he seemed to want to give being a part of the forum a try instead of just being a thorn in everyone's side. you don't have to prove anything ForgeInc. most of this guy's thread turn into pissing matches and it looks like this one too is going that way.

 

[ontsigngirl]

I can see both sides of this - as a Newbie myself there have been times I wanted to ask a question or for an opinion but could not bear to get my ass kicked because that's not what was going to help me that day. Some days you need a kinder gentler place to be.

Whether the person has talent or not - I think if he or she has the desire to learn then so be it. Even if they never become a GREAT designer the experience will still help him when dealing with other designers, to develop an eye and to be aware of space and balance and typography so some other "designer" doesn't sell him a load of crap because they have the confidence to sell their crap.

 

[SignManiac]

You don't want to use your own logo to learn on and then throw something inferior out to represent your business. You want to learn? then practice on sample pieces that are just that, samples. I have a thousand designs that were never meant to be sold. They were my learning exercises. Eventually you get to a point where you're good enough to sell a decent product. You sure don't want to show your clients work that isn't good at all.

 

[John Butto]

Michaelangelo

Do you thick he would give a ass kicking opinion to Charles Schultz or would it bring a smile to his face.

 

[weaselboogie]

So yesterday, I dropped off a banner at a client's office. After some small talk, he ended up saying that he had his logo redesigned by X company . "Do you do that sort of thing? ".... "Actually I do. I designed X Company's logo, the same company that did your logo."

 

[TheSnowman]

Thank goodness I'm a sign maker that KNOWS he isn't a graphic designer. If I have something that requires a designer, I sure as heck get one instead of wasting my time messing with something that will end up sub-par that I won't be happy with anyway. There are guys that knock stuff out of the park everytime they get an email asking for a job from me...I can't justify spending time learning it, it's just lost money I guess in my eyes.

 

[HulkSmash]

so yesterday, i dropped off a banner at a client's office. After some small talk, he ended up saying that he had his logo redesigned by x company . "do you do that sort of thing? ".... "actually i do. I designed x company's logo, the same company that did your logo."

haha

 

[HulkSmash]

Ok Addy. Would you go to a Dentist to have heart surgery? Would you go to a
mechanic to get drawings for your new house? Would you let your UPS guy try to do some of your customer wraps? Ok those might be over dramatic examples, but it holds the same glue. You cannot do it all. Not everyone is creative enough to make a logo.
I think the problem that you had is that - you made a logo and asked for suggestions on it. EVERY suggestion people made, you had an excuse on why you wouldn't and couldn't change it. I think the problem some people are having is they don't know how to take constructive criticism. If someone can't handle it then don't even post it asking for advice.

My 2 cents.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

A lot boils down to what is the best use of your time. And if you don't have the proper foundation in design theory, it's very difficult to try and give a crash course on all the challenges a layout might have. Like why we don't use red lettering with a black drop shadow, font usage, scale, proportions, and synergy in logo design.

It wasn't until I understood those theories, did I become a better designer. But it took A LOT of education. But it also was a subject I was obsessed with. Seriously obsessed with. If your whole life doesn't revolve around logos, typography and design - where you are sponge soaking everything up - it is hard to master that particular subject matter.

As someone who does a fair amount of logo design for other designers and sign folks, I respect those who want to try to do it on their own. Same for those who try to do their own web design. The real question remains, is it in their businesses best interest for them to put out an inferior image of their company, or would they be better served hiring a professional?

As my last SignCraft article pointed out (go to my site if you don't have latest issue and download it), so much is about EGO. For those who put their ego aside, and do choose to work with other professionals who are better vested in a given task, they generally are able to achieve the results they want for their business faster than having tried to do it themselves.

 

[Locals Find!]

Ok Addy. Would you go to a Dentist to have heart surgery? Would you go to a
mechanic to get drawings for your new house? Would you let your UPS guy try to do some of your customer wraps? Ok those might be over dramatic examples, but it holds the same glue. You cannot do it all. Not everyone is creative enough to make a logo.
I think the problem that you had is that - you made a logo and asked for suggestions on it. EVERY suggestion people made, you had an excuse on why you wouldn't and couldn't change it. I think the problem some people are having is they don't know how to take constructive criticism. If someone can't handle it then don't even post it asking for advice.

My 2 cents.

My question wasn't geared towards the constructive criticism part. That is part of designing.

What my question was about those who simple say "Hire a Professional" before giving feedback and seeing if any improvement can be made. I mean first attempt and a lot of people are like just stop. Well, how about some feedback and seeing a few attempts prior to telling someone to give up. We all have off days. Not everything comes out perfect every time. Obviously if they are asking for help its because they want help. Shouldn't they be allowed a little bit of rope before you hang em??

You don't get called out on the First Pitch in Baseball for a reason when you swing and miss.

Edit: Wanted to Add that I am not referring to the times when someone says just toss that whole idea into a can and start from scratch. That sometimes needs to be said. Happened with my Own logo it just wasn't working.

 

[SignManiac]

A race car builder/driver turned sign maker who can apply a wrap is not likely to design an effective logo on his own. Sure you can turn here and get a lot of help and ideas, but I don't think designing your own logo is something you will do well without many years of study and practice. I can generally tell right off the bat if a poster here trying to design their own logo is capable or not. I'm just saying, don't waste valuable time better spent elsewhere.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

You don't get called out on the First Pitch in Baseball for a reason when you swing and miss.

True, but you need to learn how to hold a bat first before you're able to even take a swing, let alone hit the ball.

 

[TheSellOut]

Addio...you have to take the good with the bad sometimes and not whine about it. Ya know a lot of times the poster, myself included, is asking for it because...we throw out one single design attempt and say "well, what do you think" and then expect a lot of constructive criticism or layout ideas! So when we as designers can't be bothered to put some real time into the a layout, give it a few attempts from the start, as well as give a brief description of what everyone is looking at and why...then why should anyone here be bothered to say anything more than "It sucks, start over" or "Hire someone" ,if it is the truth? But you should also notice that along with the people that say these one liners that there are usually a quite few people that take the time to help out and even post their layouts, as long as there is some attempt by the OP. So I just don't get why we are crying here..."There's no crying in baseball"

 

[Locals Find!]

Not whining or crying. Was asking for a debate on something that had been on my mind. Seems like we have a healthy debate going on among professionals. I don't think anyone here myself included is whining or crying.

I am rather enjoying the conversation. I am sure many others are to. I think this thread has stayed on track without sinking into name calling and other moronic behaviors we have all been guilty of at one time or another.

 

[Gino]

Okay, you want to always be back-pedaling and making piss-a$$ excuses for what I believe you already know. You’re pretty bad at designing effective signs, logos and designs.

• Your site is riddled with poor design execution.
• Your help threads are equally as bad… if not worse.
• Your analogies are pitiful.
• Your knowledge is none.

So please, if you’re honest with yourself…. explain to me what the primary colors are, secondary and tertiary. Tell me your knowledge of the color wheel and how those three terms relate to it before 5 minutes pass.

I know you’re on here, cause your name is at the bottom of this thread, so don’t go google it and give me the internet’s definition. I'd like yours.

Consider this a invitation Addie. You seem to think it’s fair to challenge people and make them speak up or shut up. Should you complete this more than simple task, I’ll lay off ya from here on in. If you take too long to answer and tell us you had some office chit to do, I’ll still maybe give ya the benefit of the doubt, based on your answers.

Oh…. and your baseball remark…. Like Dan said, you must learn how to hold the bat, your stance, leverage, eye to hand coordination and not to duck at a curve ball. Also, when you’re batting in your first game, most people had practice throughout their short or long career by hitting at teeter-tot ball, midget baseball, little league, minor league and finally major league… so if you’re called out on your first strike from your first miss…. you probably had years of practice getting to the point where making an out might just mean something.

So, c’mon Addie, no drawing, no layout skills, no design, no balance or perspective, no fonts, no weight or stroke, no kerning, no leading,…. just the basic use of the color wheel is all I ask and how they relate. Prove me wrong.

​

 

[Pat Whatley]

You don't get called out on the First Pitch in Baseball for a reason when you swing and miss.

Nope....but some people should stay on the bench.

Babe Ruth probably couldn't use Illustrator for squat.

 

[Locals Find!]

Okay, you want to always be back-pedaling and making piss-a$$ excuses for what I believe you already know. You’re pretty bad at designing effective signs, logos and designs.

• Your site is riddled with poor design execution.
• Your help threads are equally as bad… if not worse.
• Your analogies are pitiful.
• Your knowledge is none.

So please, if you’re honest with yourself…. explain to me what the primary colors are, secondary and tertiary. Tell me your knowledge of the color wheel and how those three terms relate to it before 5 minutes pass.

I know you’re on here, cause your name is at the bottom of this thread, so don’t go google it and give me the internet’s definition. I'd like yours.

Consider this a invitation Addie. You seem to think it’s fair to challenge people and make them speak up or shut up. Should you complete this more than simple task, I’ll lay off ya from here on in. If you take too long to answer and tell us you had some office chit to do, I’ll still maybe give ya the benefit of the doubt, based on your answers.

Oh…. and your baseball remark…. Like Dan said, you must learn how to hold the bat, your stance, leverage, eye to hand coordination and not to duck at a curve ball. Also, when you’re batting in your first game, most people had practice throughout their short or long career by hitting at teeter-tot ball, midget baseball, little league, minor league and finally major league… so if you’re called out on your first strike from your first miss…. you probably had years of practice getting to the point where making an out might just mean something.

So, c’mon Addie, no drawing, no layout skills, no design, no balance or perspective, no fonts, no weight or stroke, no kerning, no leading,…. just the basic use of the color wheel is all I ask and how they relate. Prove me wrong.

​

Gino, I am not claiming to be a Gift to designing. I don't know what a color wheel is. I haven't had much if any formal training. Have never made a claim to have had any.

My layout skills are commercial. They work well for the industry I service. Realtors and very occasionally very small business owners. I am Not a big shop or a big shot in that respects. Have no desire to be one. I am happy doing what I do.

Not trying to argue here either. Was enjoying reading everyone's different points of view honestly. I have only done a few logos in my whole career and from being on here. Really can't believe anyone ever accepted or paid for any of them. Looking back I wouldn't even call them logos anymore.

 

[Bigdawg]

Gino, I am not claiming to be a Gift to designing. I don't know what a color wheel is. I haven't had much if any formal training. Have never made a claim to have had any.

My layout skills are commercial. They work well for the industry I service. Realtors and very occasionally very small business owners. I am Not a big shop or a big shot in that respects. Have no desire to be one. I am happy doing what I do.

Not trying to argue here either. Was enjoying reading everyone's different points of view honestly. I have only done a few logos in my whole career and from being on here. Really can't believe anyone ever accepted or paid for any of them. Looking back I wouldn't even call them logos anymore.

I've heard that "my skills are more commercial" comment somewhere else in this thread... of yeah... it was me.

Your skills are not commercial. Your skills apparently are fairly non-existent. I say that with no malice, but your attempts posted here seem to indicate that.

So what's left is a guy with a computer that knows how to input type... but has little skills outside of that. I think it's sad that you have portrayed yourself as ANY kind of designer when you don't even have the most basic of knowledge or skills.

Again, no malicious intent, but you are the type of person that I am talking to when I say "Give up... hire a professional" the only problem being is that you claim to be one already.

 

[Locals Find!]

I've heard that "my skills are more commercial" comment somewhere else in this thread... of yeah... it was me.

Your skills are not commercial. Your skills apparently are fairly non-existent. I say that with no malice, but your attempts posted here seem to indicate that.

So what's left is a guy with a computer that knows how to input type... but has little skills outside of that. I think it's sad that you have portrayed yourself as ANY kind of designer when you don't even have the most basic of knowledge or skills.

Again, no malicious intent, but you are the type of person that I am talking to when I say "Give up... hire a professional" the only problem being is that you claim to be one already.

Now now Stacy. Back up a bit. I have commercial skills. That has been backed up by the amount of Real Estate Signage I design and sell every week. I am no Michelangelo. However, my skills have been selling work. Compared to many other Real Estate signs out there where you can't even read the phone number let alone the website address for all the information crammed on a sign or magnet, or the Business cards I see many on here post for review where you can't even read someones name. I have been doing layouts for Realtors for over 15 years. I have been designing their signage, their ads, and many other marketing materials. 15 years of selling to one industry in a city of only 4,000 agents. If I had no skill I would have been gone long ago.

Believe me word travels fast around my area when you can't cut it especially in the small world of Real Estate. My products help sell homes and at the end of the day that is what my clients want.

So I may not fit your standard thats fine we aren't even on the same playing field. You wouldn't be able to do my job and I wouldn't be able to do yours. So why fight with me over it??

 

[wetgravy]

I am in the art business because of Ringling School of Art and Design in Sarasota Florida...

Never attended... but any students the first magazine I worked for hired had no clue of how to think outside the box. The all wanted to be Arteests... not produce commercially usable art and layouts.

That is an extremely accurate estimate of RSAD. It was that way when my grand mother taught life drawing there, true when my uncle graduated from there and more so now that computers dominate the design world. I'm glad I never attended and went to state university for painting and sculpture.