Happens too often...

[Joe Diaz]

Besides the logo looking bad on the 2nd one. The 2nd design is much better. It is clean easy to read and get the message across. The first design looked cluttered, busy and had way too much white space.

Just cause you slapped a garbage background on a van doesn't make it a good design.

I disagree. I think the first design was on the right track. Yes it needed some work, but the OP admitted that it was just a first draft.

"get's the message across"??? you mean all 30 of them?:Big Laugh I disagree. There is way too much content on the 2nd design and too much to read. All of that content is competing for attention, and none of those elements are coming out the winner. At least the first layout had the logo and a phone number. It didn't come off looking like a newspaper ad. Selling some special that I already forgot about as I'm type this or displaying a laundry list of services that I have also already forgot about, shouldn't be the primary goal of an ad like this. It should be brand recognition. All the effort of a project like this should be trying to figure out a way to say the most by really saying the least. Some fine tuning on the background graphic and the first layout would have been a much more effective design than what they ended up with. But ideally I would beg them to redesign their logo and take a good look at their overall branding strategy. However I realize that is easier said than done.

 

[DIGIXTRA]

Besides the logo looking bad on the 2nd one. The 2nd design is much better. It is clean easy to read and get the message across. The first design looked cluttered, busy and had way too much white space.

Totally agree with you on this. Sometimes customer is right. They are the one who run the business and they want the sign to carry the message and they are not interested in "fine art" . My 2 cents

 

[Jillbeans]

First off, put "Locals Find" on your ignore list, like most of us. He's not a sign person.

Secondly, your first layout had a lot of potential. Some tweaking of the placement and a smaller phone number.

Thirdly, with a customer like this, I've found that if you charge them by the word they usually back off. If they want all that crap on there they are going to pay me to put it there.

And lastly, no matter how good you are, there will always be this type of client.
It's up to us to show them what is best for them. And when they force us to make something ugly, never put it in your portfolio.

Love....Jill

 

[SignManiac]

That attitude is exactly why sign pollution is far worse on this planet than air pollution. It's not even about how much copy is included but about legibility and understanding basic layout. Not every job needs to be fine art but at least know what the hell looks good versus doing what a know nothing customer wants done.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Wow, the customer's choice looks like it advertizing several stores. I think you had a good start with your first design.

 

[DesireeM]

Wow, the customer's choice looks like it advertizing several stores. I think you had a good start with your first design.

Wow good eye! He is, in fact, advertising two stores!

 

[visual800]

Another van listing everything we do! Sucks. First layout was to the point and quick the second makes my head spin, its trashed

 

[TyrantDesigner]

It happens, about once a week (or two) I end up on the losing battle of a "that (shirt, vehicle, window, etc) is not a business card and/or billboard" discussion. Sometimes it's about what they expect from their graphics and while a vehicle is pretty hard to read a million lines of text while it's moving in heavy traffic .. some people want it as such. It's the way it always will be ... take their money and run.

Oh, and cherish the clients that do understand that less is sometimes more and let you make something that you and they can be proud of. They are few and far between.

 

[Rick]

The customer is right... ugh, Spoken like a true replicator....

The customer is always right is a retail concept, not part of the design process.
You would think our skills and expertise would account for something. If the customer
is right, why would they possibly need us...

This is DESIGN... not fine art...

DESIGN is based on principles and process.
DESIGN of a wrap usually has a few goals, but the main one in my opinion is to
give a client a sense they are dealing with a reputable company, and to the potential
client, some level of confidence they can provide the service they need with the quality
they want.

-- Wraps have a limited time to get the message out.
-- Wraps are PART of a companies advertising and ENHANCES it's brand and
strengthens it's promise to deliver on it's quality. A wrap can not be everything.
just like a business card or brochure can't be.

Usually list are made because the logo is not good enough to explain what they do
or they do too much for any logo to deliver on.

I will have to say one thing, though the first design is cleaner... in my opinion
there seems to be a disconnect between the logo, and the graphics. If the graphics
went along with their other advertising, then maybe it would all tie in. I can't tell
here, it looks like design fluff to me.

 

[Locals Find!]

First off, put "Locals Find" on your ignore list, like most of us. He's not a sign person.

If turning out ineffectual marketing year after year is what it takes to be a sign person. I am glad to say I am not one and don't wanna be one.

You seemed to have missed the beach on this one by about a mile jill. That is a delivery van for a flooring company. Delivery vans for flooring companies go to people houses park and then unload and install. So they are sitting in front of the house for hours. Now when a delivery van sits in front of a house for hours. What do you think happens? I will tell you the neighbors all come check it out and get nosy. They sit their checking out Ms. Jones getting some new flooring or window coverings. They read the entire van. They come over to check out the newly installed floors and get the latest gossip.

Then they go back to their computers and google or angies list where Ms. Jones got her new flooring/window coverings. So, that design works perfectly for it's intended audience the consumer not the designer.

You can toss out all the buzz words about branding you want. It doesn't mean squat at the end of the day if a design isn't functional to bring in business. You have to design consumer products like that assuming your target audience barely has a 7th grade education. You don't design for other designers. You design for the target consumer. Too many of you have never learned that or have forgotten that.

 

[genericname]

You don't design for other designers. You design for the target consumer. Too many of you have never learned that or have forgotten that.

True, but what the client fails to realize is that they are not the target consumer; their clients are. I can guarantee you that the scenario you presented never happens in Sudbury, and I'm positive that it rarely happens elsewhere. That is a community absolutely drowning in mobile-pamphlet design, to the point where it becomes background noise. It cheapens the image of the company it's supposed to represent, and nobody pays attention to it.

You can rationalize it away as much as you want from a sales perspective, but actual designers are trying to educate you about why that design is garbage, and it's not just because it's not pretty. These are experts at communicating ideas. You don't tell a plumber how to do their job so that it fits your style, you trust them to be the experts at what they do. You're not a designer, Addy, and reading a book or two isn't going to change that.

 

[HDvinyl]

 

[DesireeM]

If turning out ineffectual marketing year after year is what it takes to be a sign person. I am glad to say I am not one and don't wanna be one.

You seemed to have missed the beach on this one by about a mile jill. That is a delivery van for a flooring company. Delivery vans for flooring companies go to people houses park and then unload and install. So they are sitting in front of the house for hours. Now when a delivery van sits in front of a house for hours. What do you think happens? I will tell you the neighbors all come check it out and get nosy. They sit their checking out Ms. Jones getting some new flooring or window coverings. They read the entire van. They come over to check out the newly installed floors and get the latest gossip.

Then they go back to their computers and google or angies list where Ms. Jones got her new flooring/window coverings. So, that design works perfectly for it's intended audience the consumer not the designer.

You can toss out all the buzz words about branding you want. It doesn't mean squat at the end of the day if a design isn't functional to bring in business. You have to design consumer products like that assuming your target audience barely has a 7th grade education. You don't design for other designers. You design for the target consumer. Too many of you have never learned that or have forgotten that.

LocalsFind I know we've talked about this at length and I've said I do agree that if something is stationary you can get away with more information however in the scenario you just described the actual design of the vehicle wasn't the thing that enticed the neighbors to research the flooring company. It was curiosity and envy over Ms.Jones and her new stuff.

That being said....why would they google the business when they already know everything about it from the van?
As a business owner I think having a vehicle that is simple and eye catching (and therefore more memorable -it's just psychology) would be better. The van is to entice - the website is to inform. I'd prefer that people be intrigued by my vehicle advertising because it is subtle and professional looking AND THEN go to my website for a in-depth, descriptive and controlled representation of my business as a whole.

 

[genericname]

View attachment 97068

What I said may be argumentative, but that's just straight-up rude, man. He's no designer, that's true, but that doesn't mean his words don't come from personal experience.

 

[Locals Find!]

What I said may be argumentative, but that's just straight-up rude, man. He's no designer, that's true, but that doesn't mean his words don't come from personal experience.

It's ok man. I learned a long time ago to not entertain the the level of stupidity some people feel the need to resort to when they dislike an opinion. I much prefer a debate with intelligent people that can respect the opinions of others. Even if they don't agree with them.

 

[SignManiac]

I think an intelligent debate between Addy and Dan Anonelli on the subject would be most enlightening.

 

[Jillbeans]

The person who hires you to do the design is not really the target market at all...their potential client is who they need to appeal to.
That's what it's about. That's how it's supposed to work.
I let them pick the colors, and show them a few carefully chosen fonts which I know will look good, then let them pick from those.
Every year I have at least 5 clients who "get it".
The rest all end up with something that's really not a portfolio piece, but applied well using good materials.

 

[Joe Diaz]

OK so Locals Find (and this client) are going to put all their chips on the neighbors of the person who managed to wade through all the content on that company's advertisements and decided to buy their products and services. Now let's say one out of all the neighbors was enticed to buy from this company, even though it's unlikely they would because of some of the reasons Rick touched on... mainly the part about appearing as a reputable company. But for the sake of argument let's pretend that one neighbor was in need of what they were selling, had time to read everything, let it all sink in, remembered it all, and was reached with this piece of marketing. That's pretty good right?

Now, let's talk about the missed opportunity. The rest of the neighborhood isn't in the market for flooring right now and everything else they are selling for that matter. To be honest I just looked over the design once again before I started typing and I already forgot the majority of what they are trying to sell, and I'm pretty observant of advertisements, much more than the average person I would argue. Not being a complete idiot, I can assume that they sell carpets hardwood floors, laminate, tiles. You know stuff most flooring companies offer. But then that begs the question, was it necessary to list it all?

For everyone else in that neighborhood, because their was too much information to remember and because their logo and branding is weak and not memorable at all, the chances of those neighbors remembering this business when it does come time to get carpeting is diminished greatly. An effective brand that can say a lot about a bushiness without a laundry list of information, multiple logos and a few sales ads, has a higher chance of making an impression and being remembered. And in THAT case you are reaching the nosy neighbor who is in the market for new flooring, the rest of the neighborhood, and everyone else in town between the store and that customers house. Missed opportunity... that is what Locals Find is really selling in this case. You aren't doing the client any favors by throwing aside years of experience in exchange for their novice opinions, all in an effort to just make them temporarily happy.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Since I didn't notice anyone else point this out yet...you are clearly going to have issues with lines of text falling directly on those recesses.

 

[DIGIXTRA]

I have been in this trade for quite a while and what I've learned is to put down my eagle. After all I only in to make a signs and to help the people that pay me to carry out their message nicely. If my client need to put 10 lines of text in their sign I would say no problem and do my best to make it look nice. In the beginning I use to think I "know" everything but I actually don't. Each business is different and has unique need and I can not dictate how the owner should run their business. In the beginning I certainly do suggest my idea but if customer does not like it I will gladly go along with their idea...isn't it what we did all the time?
"Nice" and "art" again is a concept of each individual and time. I certainly is not a fan of Picasso. and who would say that a sign made 100 year ago with only text is not nice? If a Chinese company asked you to design something in all red would you say no because you think green will sell?
Only when I win a lottery then I will do it ...my way.