How do you handle....... Employee Fights?

[rjssigns]

i can't put my head around some of you folks' ideas about firing both of them right there and then without any form of investigation. anything could have started the fight.

kelly

Put yourself in the owners shoes. What would you do? In today's world it comes down to a massive liability headache if they stay.

What if it would escalate and one of them brings a weapon to "finish it"?

If they stay and an innocent gets hurt next time there goes your entire lifetime of work because you were afraid of hurting their feelings.

Lawyers would tear you to shreds in court. Do you really want to go there?

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Workplace Threats and Violence

Nothing is more important to Merritt than the safety and security
of its employees. Threats, threatening behavior, or acts of violence
against employees, clients, visitors, guests, or other individuals by
anyone on company property will not be tolerated. Violations of
this policy will lead to disciplinary action that may include
dismissal, arrest, and prosecution.

Any person who makes threats, exhibits threatening behavior, or
engages in violent acts on company property shall be removed
from the premises as quickly as safety permits, and shall remain
off company premises pending the outcome of an investigation.
Upon completion of the investigation, Merritt will initiate an
appropriate response. This response may include, but is not
limited to, suspension and/or termination of any business
relationship, reassignment of job duties, suspension or termination
of employment, and/or criminal prosecution of the person or
persons involved.

All company personnel are responsible for notifying the Human
Resources Administrator or the President of any threats that they
have witnessed, received, or has been told that another person has
witnessed or received. Even without an actual threat, personnel
should also report any behavior they have witnessed which they
regard as threatening or violent, when that behavior is job related
or might be carried out on an company controlled site, or is
connected to company employment. Employees are responsible
for making this report regardless of the relationship between the
individual who initiated the threat or threatening behavior and the
person or persons who were threatened or were the focus of the
threatening behavior. Any supervisor who becomes aware of
threatening behavior must immediately notify the President.

 

[Pat Whatley]

My first thought was where was management and why wasn't it stepping in BEFORE it got violent and what's the deal with the work environment that added enough stress to turn things violent? Sit them down, talk to them one at a time, then together, THEN make a decision about what to do. There's a world of difference between having a violent, potentially explosive employee running around terrorizing other employees and having a couple of guys do something really stupid they probably both really regret.


I'm laughing my *** off at most of these over-reactive "fire them, call your lawyer, they might go on a killing spree, hide in your closet, live in fear" comments.

 

[David Wright]

Standing rule at my last company, 2 guys get into a fight, 2 guys get fired.
Doesn`t matter who started it.

mark-s

Seems unfair,what if one had done nothing wrong? No defending himself, or if he allows himself to get pummeled he still gets fired?

 

[Gino]

i can't put my head around some of you folks' ideas about firing both of them right there and then without any form of investigation. anything could have started the fight.

kelly

Pretty much what rjs said.

Think about it for a minute or two. Doesn't matter if you are a 2 man shop, 3, 10 or 50. Rules are rules.

Basic concept on this forum is, we're all some sort of sign maker, designer, installer. We're all hired to do a job. If their employees aren't doing what they were hired to do, then one of two things need to be done.....

You're either no good at running a shop, or you have a** holes running around wild. You've got to stop it.

If you can't stop it immediately, then you're absolutely no good at what you do, either. Hate to be cut and dry, but there is no time to be playing games and nursemaid to a bunch of imbeciles.

So the two things are this..... if they can't work together without fighting, then you either must separate them completely or get rid of them.

New rule in shop. No talking, no whistling, no radios, no looking up from your job, no hand gestures, no palling around during work hours and no breaks together. Does that sound fair so far ??

I don't care who started it.... I'm gonna finish it and quickly.

YOU... YOU... outta here !!

​

 

[ddarlak]

My advice -- you need to talk to a personnel attorney immediately to advise you on the appropriate actions. What to say, and how to respond, etc. You fire them -- you're screwed. You don't fire them -- you're screwed.

too much living in fear.... talk to an attorney??? r u nutz????

kick there asses out the door and be done with them.....

 

[mark galoob]

The liability of keeping them on board is very bad. If someone will do this once you know right there that it's not a one time thing. Who they gonna get into it with next time. This will only escalate and if someone gets hurt and you have kept them on and they have a history of physical violence you are opening your self up to a huge lawsuit. Their is no choice here they made their decision when they decided to escalate their behavior to physical violence

Mark galoob

 

[Mosh]

What about the time I popped one of my customers in the face? He wasn't a "real" customer, he was just a broker, I found out he was trying to steal some of my customers away from me, he would casually ask what I was working on, next thing I know he is going to those exact customers bad-mouthing me, yet wanting me to produce the signs for him to sell to them....Every time I see him I wave and smile at his bankrupt, bad check writting a$$!!!

 

[SignManiac]

Make them each sit in a corner for a ten minute time out. Maybe take away their nap time privileges.

If they are right handed, cut of their left hands. It would be cruel and unusual punishment if you took away their ability to pleasure themselves.

Tar and feather although dated, would teach a good lesson, especially if you make them stand out in the sun all day spinning a sign by the roadside.

Have both go to mandatory couples counseling or for a month of anger management classes at the local penitentiary.

Think outside the box!

 

[tsgstl]

I'm not sure there is near enough info to give any answer. My definition of "duking it out" might be completely different from the op. How valuable are they to your company? What is the 2 employees relationship? How many other employees do you have to pick up the slack? What is their history? Is one of them related to your best customer? I could go on and on. It is ez and probably more times than not to say fire them both. But there is no possible way to tell with such little info given.

 

[mikefine]

Fanaticus: At this writing, there have been close to 800 views on your thread. Lots of people writing responses, and in my opinion, based on emotion. Only 1 person has responded with practical real life experience with this situation. And he wrote: "employer got sued and lost big time..."

Your call -- choose your advice. I know what I would be doing!

 

[Billct2]

Unfortunately this is a situation that does not have an easy or simple solution.
If there is no written policy in place, which obviously there isn't or the thread wouldn't have been started , it's even more complicated. I'm sure most of us with small shops
don't have any kind of employee handbook, and I had none till I had one employee who made it necessary. But my one page policy sheet doesn't deal with this issue.
For those who say "Fire them both", for a shop my size that would might mean going out of business, that's half my workforce. There aren't a lot of qualified sign shop workers waiting for my call. So if there is any way to salvage good employees it's worth it. Also if I fired both, they'd both end up collecting so it'd cost me for years. You have to have serious documentation to get rid of someone without them collecting around here. If this happened I would send them both home for the day, then meet with them individually, then decide how to proceed. My response, whatever it is would be in writing, which I would them sign. Then I would permanently add another item to my policy list.
Good luck

 

[Pat Whatley]

Welcome to Thunderdome..

 

[David Wright]

Yeah Pat, all the Signs101 members lining the domed cage handing them x-acto knifes and hammer drills.

 

[Gino]

Yeah Pat, all the Signs101 members lining the domed cage handing them x-acto knifes and hammer drills.

Back in the day..... it would've been brushes at ten paces......

 

[Pat Whatley]

Back in the day after the fight was over they'd be forced to go de-haze screens together.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

What if you were one of the people in the fight? What if the other person was a real jerk and you tolerated it for months because you loved your job? Then one day, the jerk went over the line and you spoke up, things escalated and he decked ya? Think you should be fired on the spot? How do you explain that on the next interview? How do you support yourself and/or kids until you get another job? Just saying, we weren't there and don't know the whole story. But firing both on the spot without any investigating doesn't seem right to me. Was there any indication of any problems before this happened?

 

[JBusch260]

What if you were one of the people in the fight? What if the other person was a real jerk and you tolerated it for months because you loved your job? Then one day, the jerk went over the line and you spoke up, things escalated and he decked ya? Think you should be fired on the spot? How do you explain that on the next interview? How do you support yourself and/or kids until you get another job? Just saying, we weren't there and don't know the whole story. But firing both on the spot without any investigating doesn't seem right to me. Was there any indication of any problems before this happened?

If this were the case, I would hope this issue would have been brought up to management WAY before this level of escalation.

 

[Gino]

Firing someone for fighting in a work place is not wrong. Whether someone is the instigator or defending themselves..... no one defused the bomb before it went off. If someone is goading you and you don't report it, that's your mistake. So you get beat up and fired all in the same instance.

The only time someone can go off and you have innocent bystanders.... is when they are blindsided and are capped [decked] right off the bat. Then, there is a victim.

Of course we don't know what happened, neither does the OP, but the OP did say the two were duking it out, so it seems like two individuals were entangled in throwing fists, vulgarities and tempers around. I'm not one to break up a dog fight or two women fighting, but two guys...... if a loud stern voice doesn't stop it immediately, they both are goners.

I would want to get to the bottom of what sparked it, but do you really think either or is gonna tell on himself ?? It's always going to be the other guy's fault.

Some have mentioned about this putting you out of business by losing some work force. That's really not possible, unless you are clueless and like I said.... someone just popped a gasket and went postal. See, postal is a good example of why these nut-jobs should be taken out.

I've been in many fights and they never end nicely. Not as of late, but growing up and well into my 40's. Been in jail for it and had others thrown in jail. Actually, the last one was about two years ago. Didn't end well at all, but I was sucker punched in the head from behind and the Police let me go immediately as I had about 10 witnesses.... including a state constable, stating I was not at all at fault. Had to go make statements at the Police Station and requested for the most part it all be dropped. At my age and the business we have, I don't want the publicity good OR bad written up in papers.

 

[Mosh]

Two men enter, one man leaves! Who run Bartertown?