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How much to charge for vinyl install on glass doors?

Colt

New Member
Have a local business that has two locations, and each has two glass doors. So 4 glass doors in total.

Just doing this on the side and was starting out so did some work labor free. Did the company name and hours, i.e. Mon-Fri and Sat hours with vinyl on their glass doors. Oracal vinyl. Then they changed their hours and had me redo all of it. Just broke even on it for materials as I was doing it cheap while I learned how to install vinyl and wasn't expecting to be doing their doors again.

Anyways they have changed business names and hours, and want me to redo the vinyl on their 4 glass doors for the 3rd time. So looking to see what you would charge for vinyl removal and install on 4 glass doors? It has their business name and their hours. Would have to redo graphic in Corel Draw, cut and weed. Then clean up old vinyl from 4 glass doors, and install new vinyl.

Just looking for ball park figure you would charge on something like that?
 

DizzyMarkus

New Member
An unspoken rule for Signs101 is folks dont like to speak in a PUBLIC forum about pricing :0) With that said -- get a handle on what your overhead is and divise a hourly rate + materials. Dont forget it even cost to throw the old garbage out, gas, insurance, shop power to produce the decals etc, so dont undercut everyone else please :0)


good luck,
Markus
 

Marlene

New Member
hate to be the one to say this but really, you don't have a clue what to charge? what is your hourly rate? how far to travel? you have travel back and forth, on site labor and materials. at this point you should have an hourly rate as well as material charges. you should work on that before taking jobs on
 

Colt

New Member
hate to be the one to say this but really, you don't have a clue what to charge? what is your hourly rate? how far to travel? you have travel back and forth, on site labor and materials. at this point you should have an hourly rate as well as material charges. you should work on that before taking jobs on

I was just doing this as a hobby. Making stuff for myself. Noticed they had a 8"x10" word peeling off and offered to replace it for free for the experience since I hadn't done much on glass. Just practice stuff. Then they asked me to do all of their doors with hours, etc. So designed that out and installed it for free. Then they change their hours and asked me to redo it all, so charged the materials for that. So, figure I had a handle on it. Then they changed again and wanted it all redone. So figured I should get paid for the 3rd job, but wasn't sure of the ballpark charge. I'm new at it and take my time, so can't charge by the hour.

One problem I had in Corel is bolding text can create a lot of junk nodes that can make the cut not look smooth. So have to go and smooth that out which take hours.
 

J Hill Designs

New Member
-use 'bold' typefaces instead of trying to 'embolden' normal text

-for the umpteenth time, this particular forum section IS NOT viewable by non members

-$240 sounds about right, a bit on the low side
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I was just doing this as a hobby. Making stuff for myself. Noticed they had a 8"x10" word peeling off and offered to replace it for free for the experience since I hadn't done much on glass. Just practice stuff. Then they asked me to do all of their doors with hours, etc. So designed that out and installed it for free. Then they change their hours and asked me to redo it all, so charged the materials for that. So, figure I had a handle on it. Then they changed again and wanted it all redone. So figured I should get paid for the 3rd job, but wasn't sure of the ballpark charge. I'm new at it and take my time, so can't charge by the hour.

One problem I had in Corel is bolding text can create a lot of junk nodes that can make the cut not look smooth. So have to go and smooth that out which take hours.



Well, since you admitted this is only a hobby for you, I'd stick to hobby pricing. Cost of material and free labor in and out of the production area..... most likely your dining room. Heck, that's what this company is used to now..... free.... free..... freeeeeeee. I don't have a problem with someone coming into the industry wanting to learn and do things the right way, but to come here and ask how to use your software, how to price like the big guys and undercutting with the excuse of getting started is how & why any trade is looked down upon.


  • How many dentists did you go to who said they were just getting started and haven't taken any board tests, but will charge you free ??
  • How many air conditioning people have you hired to fix your broken unit who said they just got their first screw driver and wrench and wanna work for you for free to learn how to do it ??
    [*]How many times does an electrician have to be electrocuted to be considered ready for service calls ??



Get the idea ?? :doh:

 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
-use 'bold' typefaces instead of trying to 'embolden' normal text

-for the umpteenth time, this particular forum section IS NOT viewable by non members You're right !!

-$240 sounds about right, a bit on the low side

We'd be at $128 per door, plus all travel time. Just did 8 of them Monday. The place was about 4 miles from our shop. Got $1,159.00 + tax We didn't have any vinyl to peel off, except for two doors. That took an extra 2 minutes a door. Razor blade and alcohol. $50.00 + tax.
 

CherryGraphix

New Member
Cut him some slack....Not everyone starts out as a professional

I totally get where you're coming from....I'm in the same boat you are. I bought my first cutter for personal use. Friends began asking me to do stuff for them then my sister in laws sister in law opened a new salon and the rest was history. I live in a small town 30 minutes from the nearest retail stores. Everyone knows everyone and word spreads fast about who does what around here. I've gotten many jobs for local businesses doing their doors, windows, trucks, trailers etc. I've taught myself everything I know with the help of youtube.

I live in a college community just over the border of Utah, in Idaho.....People here are tight asses so I have to price according to competitors which are all other women that do it from home. With the exception of Sign Pro. Ive seen some of their workThat they’ve done for our local Fire Dept. and for being a professional business their quality on some things lack. I’ve done a better job for the Fire Dept and they keep coming back to me. Maybe because I’m extremely anal with my work, idk. It could be the fact that I'm a lot cheaper too.



With that being said….I think your problem with pricing stems from your lack of confindence. I’ve done the same thing when I do jobs that are new to me. I worry that it won’t be the best of quality, the customer will be disappointed and slam my name around. However, when you price it reasonably and they end up unsatisfied they will at least not be so pissed off because they didn’t pay a fortune.


I would do competitive pricing….Find out what others in your area in the same boat as you are pricing and go from there. I charge by the square foot which also includes design time. I add an additional amount per square foot to install.


Everybody has to start somewhere! All of these “professoinal” sign companies/individuals that are slamming peoples lack of knowledge on this site had to start somewhere with NO knowledge of what they were doing also. Not everyone has a mentor to train them.


I’ve branched out finally and am taking an Avery Dennison class and online training to increase my knowledge and become a licensed professional with the purchase of my first printer. Everyone has to start somewhere!


Good luck!!
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I totally get where you're coming from....I'm in the same boat you are. I bought my first cutter for personal use. Friends began asking me to do stuff for them then my sister in laws sister in law opened a new salon and the rest was history. I live in a small town 30 minutes from the nearest retail stores. Everyone knows everyone and word spreads fast about who does what around here. I've gotten many jobs for local businesses doing their doors, windows, trucks, trailers etc. I've taught myself everything I know with the help of youtube.

I live in a college community just over the border of Utah, in Idaho.....People here are tight asses so I have to price according to competitors which are all other women that do it from home. With the exception of Sign Pro. Ive seen some of their workThat they’ve done for our local Fire Dept. and for being a professional business their quality on some things lack. I’ve done a better job for the Fire Dept and they keep coming back to me. Maybe because I’m extremely anal with my work, idk. It could be the fact that I'm a lot cheaper too.



With that being said….I think your problem with pricing stems from your lack of confindence. I’ve done the same thing when I do jobs that are new to me. I worry that it won’t be the best of quality, the customer will be disappointed and slam my name around. However, when you price it reasonably and they end up unsatisfied they will at least not be so pissed off because they didn’t pay a fortune.


I would do competitive pricing….Find out what others in your area in the same boat as you are pricing and go from there. I charge by the square foot which also includes design time. I add an additional amount per square foot to install.


Everybody has to start somewhere! All of these “professoinal” sign companies/individuals that are slamming peoples lack of knowledge on this site had to start somewhere with NO knowledge of what they were doing also. Not everyone has a mentor to train them.


I’ve branched out finally and am taking an Avery Dennison class and online training to increase my knowledge and become a licensed professional with the purchase of my first printer. Everyone has to start somewhere!


Good luck!!



While this is your first post, I'll omit the 'welcoming you......' part, but NO, we're not slamming.... or at least, I'm not slamming the guy for having to start somewhere, but how he's starting, just like you.

Professionalism has something and everything to do with knowing your trade and being competent and not experimenting on poor unknowing customers. You don't learn how to become an airplane pilot by watching utube or flying crop dusters. You have to learn the basics.... the fundamentals. All you and the OP here know is how to push some buttons and presto..... another perfectly ugly sign is produced. Duh, now how much can I charge like the big guys and get away with ??

You, Cherry, are basing your facts that your so-called professionals came in the back door just like you. Many of us went to school for this, practiced in our basements and worked long hard hours perfecting our trade.... with pride. I had two very fine mentors who helped and worked aside of me many a long hours at night helping me. You sound as if you want to pride yourself by not knowing what you're doing, but by what people are paying you because you're cheaper than normal professionals. If that's your way of doing business, good for you, but like a school teacher, a nurse or an architect..... one really should have the proper knowledge and not run things by the seat of their pants.

Someone who readily admits, they can't do the very basics with their software is already dis-servicing their customers. What does that say about balance, color wheel, elements, light direction/source, letter formations, negative or white space, reverses, kerning, leading, weight and so many other parts of making a simple sign, like a door sign or just a shingle for outside on the wall ??

I'm sorry, if you feel like this tongue lashing is geared towards you, but it's not. It's geared to ALL of those like you, that think this is a stoopid and cheap industry and lack the respect the rest of us have for our long learned trade. It's an art for many of us and for those of you who view it as a commodity, again.... good for you and have a nice day.


Well, I hafta go now, I'm gonna go instal a turbo system in my diesel van so it runs faster and on less fuel. I saw it done on utube and it looks pretty easy.... ohh...... as long as you do it when the engine is turned off. It can't be too hard, cause I heard Bubba J [from Jeff Dunham] did it the other week and it only took 2 or 3 six-paks. Even a caveman could do it, huh ??
[h=3][/h]
 

graphicwarning

New Member
Some days I feel like the sign industry is becoming the next photography industry. For the last few years everyone has been going to Walmart and buying a digital camera, gets a copy of Photoshop elements, adds a few filters or effects, slaps their "name" on it... and miraculously they are now "photographers". :banghead:
 

Marlene

New Member
yes everyone has to start some where and no one regrudges a new sign shop person who doesn't have all the answers from asking a question. hobby people who do this on the side of their "real" job suck, plain and simple. we know you are out there but I will be damned if I will be a part of helping you in any way as harsh as that sounds. new sign company yes, hobby people no way. why? because a sign shop is a business and a business has to play by the same rules. yes some can be pains and lowball the industry to death but most are just another sign company selling their trade. you hobby people come in make some crap at stupid low prices as you don't know anything and pretty sure you do it all under the table too. then along comes a real sign company when they need a real sign and we have to fight to explain why we are going to charge travel time to your 4 hour away site as the last guy didn't, that is Mr hobby didn't. we have to deal with explaining why we as business people aren't going to do soemthing for free as unlike the hobby guy, we have actual bills to pay. so if some like me are hard on you hobby people so be it
 

Colt

New Member
Wasn’t planning on it being a job. I go in there every so often and kept looking at the 8”x10” large vinyl word falling off the door. I offered to replace it for free so I could get some experience installing vinyl on glass since I had only done tests with regards to applying vinyl to glass. Simple 5 letter word. But they came back wanting all their doors done with hours, etc. Didn’t plan on doing it again, but then they wanted it redone when they changed their hours. And now wanted it redone again due to them making another change. Had no idea what something like that would cost to have a pro do it, so thought I’d ask.

Though from the “practice”, I did learn you want to use bold text, and you want to make the letters larger than you’d normally think so people can easily read it from 6+ feet away.

I can say those cheapo Staples No Smoking decals are a pain to remove. They just crumble and the crumbs stick to everything.
 

lodcomm

New Member
I'm sorry, if you feel like this tongue lashing is geared towards you, but it's not. It's geared to ALL of those like you, that think this is a stoopid and cheap industry and lack the respect the rest of us have for our long learned trade. It's an art for many of us and for those of you who view it as a commodity, again.... good for you and have a nice day.
Well, I hafta go now, I'm gonna go instal a turbo system in my diesel van so it runs faster and on less fuel. I saw it done on utube and it looks pretty easy.... ohh...... as long as you do it when the engine is turned off. It can't be too hard, cause I heard Bubba J [from Jeff Dunham] did it the other week and it only took 2 or 3 six-paks. Even a caveman could do it, huh ??

Hi Gino,

I get the fact that you and the rest of your "professional Sign Pro" members are hugely upset by Newbies (such as myself) coming into the business with inexpensive old crap machines and such.. However I have never seen a "newbie" post anything (question/comment) Anywhere here on S101 - with even the slightest insinuation that your Talents and industry is "stoopid", nor have I seen a newbie offer a "Lack of respect" towards you (or your assorted Professional Ilk) Either (at least not until you and your "team" have "responded" in your usual fashion to their question) What I do see time and time again, is all you so called "Professionals" Ranting & Raving, Frothing at the mouth, flying off the handle, Insulting the "newbie", (and anyone who actually tries to help the "newbie"). It's bloody hilarious to watch you old "pro's" act like a gang of clowns. Let me see if I can get this straight: It is your belief that ranting, raving and generally acting like a gibbering idiot is somehow going to "Scare" said newbie out of the business, thus protecting your Sacred & Hard learned trade? Are you truly this naive?

Let me guess... you are currently on Blood Pressure meds?

I have added to my Hobby of Beginner Sign Making: perusing S101 with a search of a few of your usernames (you know who you are!) Just to get a laugh out of your pavlovian responses. It's a great way to pass the time while my slow old SC500 muddles through a banner.

As always, Warmest Regards! (good luck with the Turbo Installation, PM me if you need a hand)

-t
 

Colt

New Member
-use 'bold' typefaces instead of trying to 'embolden' normal text

-for the umpteenth time, this particular forum section IS NOT viewable by non members

-$240 sounds about right, a bit on the low side

Sometimes the “bold” isn’t bold enough, or some fonts don’t have a bold. So I’ll thicken it up by the outline setting. Which usually causes the nodes to get bundled up in some places sometimes which can cause cutter problems if it’s trying to cut to a bunch of zig zag nodes in a real small area. I also stretch text sometimes that can cause node problems.

You also have to watch out for that if you do a vector trace as you can get a bunch of junk nodes.

Had did a vector trace on an object, cleaned it up, and it looked real good. Go and cut it, and at a certain place the cutter had a seizure. Zoomed way in on that area to find like 100 nodes all jammed up together when there should have been either one or no nodes there as it was supposed to be a fairly straight line.

Have also had the junk node problem on non-text items as well like when thickening up the outline or doing a contour.
 

Jillbeans

New Member
There is a "reduce node" setting in Corel. Some versions of Corel are great at adding extra nodes.
But you really should be using a proper bold font for the job.

I'm at this now for 29 years. I started out as a hand-letterer and gradually taught myself how to use a computer to make lettering on a plotter. There were no forums when I started. There was nobody to help me.

When I do a fascia sign for a client, I will throw in complimentary hours. Other people, who contact me for lettering, I charge an hourly shop rate, sometimes a trip charge too. I do not charge by the square foot. I charge less if the client installs the lettering themselves. My hourly rate is probably a lot different than your hourly rate. My signs probably look a lot better than your signs, too. But does it matter? No.

The newbies in my hood have no respect for the craft of sign making. They don't know how to lay out a for sale sign, and their signs are worthless to the client. They have killed a pricing structure that took me years to build. To be honest, this will be my last year as a sign shop. I give up.

The sign industry has gone to hell in a handbasket. Vinyl started to kill it, and prints are killing vinyl, and digital displays will kill prints even faster. People can design their own ugly signs and banners online or go to FedEx/Kinkos etc etc.

I'm selling my house...my market is saturated with hacks. The signs I make last too long, therefore do not need replacing or maintenance. I will be doing small painted signs and logo design for other shops. Signs will become my hobby.
:thumb:
Love....Jill
 

lodcomm

New Member
I'm at this now for 29 years. I started out as a hand-letterer and gradually taught myself how to use a computer to make lettering on a plotter. There were no forums when I started. There was nobody to help me.

To be honest, this will be my last year as a sign shop. I give up.

The sign industry has gone to hell in a handbasket. Vinyl started to kill it, and prints are killing vinyl, and digital displays will kill prints even faster. People can design their own ugly signs and banners online or go to FedEx/Kinkos etc etc.

I will be doing small painted signs and logo design for other shops. Signs will become my hobby.
:thumb:
Love....Jill

Hi Jill,

Sorry to hear you are giving up. no sarcasm intended..


I remember when this kind of thing happened to my father.. he had 40 some odd years as Weight & Balance Engineer for General Dynamics/Electric Boat building Submarines. (worked on the Nautilus!).. He did everything in his trade by Hand, using slide rules, tables & Log charts, etc. I can still hear him today laughing at and ridiculing the Computers that started showing up in his office: "How could some computer ever even "Think" to place a slot in some metal corner gusset, located in some nook and cranny to save weight, etc... they will NEVER be able to replace a person with my 40 years of experience with some damn computer, it's simply ridiculous!" - I'm sure anyone can finish this story. It was very sad to see him in his last years before retiring, putting on his suit and going in to work with nothing to do at all, since it was now done far more quickly & efficiently by them computers.

What I do remember quite well though is that throughout this whole sad thing, my Dad never acted like some damn fool by ranting & raving at the computer technicians who came along with, and used those computers. (As if acting like a jackass towards them would somehow impress upon these guys "Stay out of the business" out of respect for the "Old Timers (ie: my dad)" years of blood & sweat). He Was, and continued to act like a professional to the end. Sadly Technology & Progress move ahead with no regard for his, or anyone elses feelings whatsoever..


Again, I am sorry to hear you are getting out of the business.


-todd
 
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