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HP360 Lamination Problems

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by colin smyth, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. AKwrapguy

    AKwrapguy Active Member

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    This might not be true. I'm rocking a couple of 570's which are a little different than the 360's but my curing temp for 100% ink density and 10 pass is only 215 degrees fahrenheit.
    I wonder if you might be baking the ink and creating a 'hydrophobic' type result? As odd as it might seem maybe look at turning down the temperature. At this point what do you have to lose?
     
  2. colin smyth

    colin smyth Member

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    Ok, Just just had a very interesting conversation with an HP reseller who admitted that it is well known that laminates don’t like the new scratch resistant ink, he admitted that 3M are the ONLY manufacturer that guarantees they won’t de-laminate and that HP recommend to use.....they just chose not to tell anyone they sell the printer to.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. AF

    AF Active Member

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    Have you had the laminate come off on its own or did you have to peel it off? Maybe it sticks well enough.
     
  4. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    You have to wonder how the type of media would make any difference since the ink sits on top of it.
     
  5. colin smyth

    colin smyth Member

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    We have had a few jobs come back where prints have delaminated, Just put it down to no heat or dodgy laminate, only when I started testing all prints going out that I really noticed it.
    Believe me AF, it should not be possible to remove laminate that easy or at all. Don’t know if you have any other printers but if you do, try them for comparison?
     
  6. colin smyth

    colin smyth Member

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    Have tried a range of vinyl, pop-up and roll up material, even poster paper and all the same. Personally I think the if you need to laminate, HP360 is NOT the printer to use
     
  7. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    We had color issues, it could not print consistent color without major "oversight" and constant tweaking. We print a LOT and a lot of solid colors. When we had to print patch/repair panels, they never matched and we ended up reprinting whole wraps. This issue scares me back away from thinking about them again.

    We love the Epsons, we have 3 now; get a dual CMYK setup not the 10-color model. The 80600 series FLIES, also, same-day lamination and 3M MCS warranted prints.
     
  8. colin smyth

    colin smyth Member

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    Have had no color issues, just the de-lam, but because of that and their total lack of care in helping with the issue, I would never buy another.
    Problem is that I have been so used to the print quality but mainly the same day lamination, I just don’t know what to replace it with! Is the Epson not eco solvent inks? Can you laminate same day? If so, that might convince me.

    Another problem I have though is that there are no Epson technicians in Northern Ireland, so we would be waiting a couple of days if anything goes wrong. In your experience, are they temperamental or give many Problem? What about ink costs also? We pay £85 for HP cartridge, how would that compare with Epson?
     
  9. colin smyth

    colin smyth Member

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    Hi Bly, never heard of that before but you are right, worth giving it a go, nothing to loose. Though it is also happening on pop-up material, which can’t take much heat as it warps, so don’t think too much heat is the cause but will give it a go.
     
  10. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    Check out the 80600 model of printer. Same day lamination and I would bet that it is faster at printing than the HP, but I haven't seen them running the same file side-by-side. Ours hasn't given us any trouble yet, but if you buy a new one then the warranty will take care of any potential issues you have to worry about. Epson under warranty service has been exceptional (get the extended warranty), but out of warranty, not so much. I think we pay $156 US per cartridge using the 3M Ultrachrome MCS inks, but we don't go through that many cartridges every day, I think we changed cartridges more often in the HP and older models of Epson we have. Check the specs on the cost per sf in the brochure for ink cost, we don't worry about ink with how expensive the vinyl is, lol. (not really lol!) We run 4+ rolls through our printer every day and spend maybe 20 minutes per week cleaning it, but we keep our printers sparkling clean. You can laminate about an hour after printing depending on ink coverage.
     
  11. colin smyth

    colin smyth Member

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    Hi JF, thanks for the reply, the reason I ask about the inks is that I remember looking at an Epson SC a few years ago and the ink was a ridiculous price, about £160 per cartridge (220 US) which put me right off but checked out costs for 80600 last night and they are £86 so very reasonable (same as HP). The print quality and colours look amazing on it, something I always liked about the HP and as long as I can laminate same day I would be happy, we usually leave prints 3-4 hrs before laminating anyway. This might be the printer for me if I can get HP to take my 360 back. Just bought a Fuji Acuity, so money a bit tight at the minute :)
     
  12. ikarasu

    ikarasu Active Member

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    The Epson's same day lamination says "just 6 hours after printing". If you work an 8 hour day... That means only.the stuff you printed in the first two hours of the day can be lalinated same day.

    It looks like a nice printer, and I'd say 3-4 hour offgass would qualify as same day sin e it leaves half a day for printing..but 6 hours shouldn't be called same day, in my opinion!
     
  13. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    When we had Rolands we used to crank up the drying heater and lam straight off the printer for flat jobs.
    I wouldn't have been so hasty if it was a wrap print though.
     
  14. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    Build you one of these: out gassing solvent prints
    Never had an issue with same-day lamination yet, but we do try to print everything in advance whenever possible.
     
  15. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    We also run an Epson s80600 and it has been amazing compared to our old rolands, absolutely perfect colour consistency on large panel jobs such as wall graphics, and it can hit 98% of the pantone book thanks to the red and orange ink.

    Here is a speed video of the s80600 against an HP570, as you can see it's quite a bit faster, if you need even more speed, go with the S60600 which is dual CMYK without the red and orange but it absolutely files!

    You will notice in the video the HP is printing at 10 pass and the epson is printing at 8, for day to day stuff, printing at 6 pass is more than enough, but for wraps, wall graphics etc that will be seen up close we print at 8 pass and it's perfect.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. AKwrapguy

    AKwrapguy Active Member

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    Was just thinking about all this and it might be a mute point, will the school even allow you to have a printer on premise? Do they have any guidelines for whats maybe allowed? This might help you decide.
     
  17. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

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    Anyone known what the ink longevity differences is between the HP and Epson?
     
  18. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    I've only had the Epson for about 6-8 months, but I would imagine the ink longevity is around the same, the inks and printer are MCS certified same as the HP's most printers say 3 years unlaminated.

    Another nice thing with the Epson is you have the option of adding white or silver ink as needed then removing them when not in use, takes about an hour to set up the printer for white or silver, so the job has to be worth it, but i'm pretty sure it's the only printer that can be converted by the operator without the need for a tech.
     
  19. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

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    After doing a search it looks like nozzle clogging is still a big issue with Epson printers. Especially one that is not used constantly.
     
  20. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    Ours will sometimes sit for a week unused during lulls in printing (we are not a print only shop) I just fire it up, do a 5 minute head clean and it's good to go.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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