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HP360 Lamination Problems

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by colin smyth, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

    No issues with nozzles clogging on our 3 Epsons here, even on the two that have silver and white ink (only print using those a few times a year).

    HOWEVER, we did switch our RIP profiles to NOT use the orange ink on our 79670/70675 printers - the orange DOES FADE after a year, and Epson, just says "we don't warrant inks from fading" on those printers when it happens... On the new series you have the Ultrachrome MCS certified inks that are warranted from fading when used with 3M products. The spectrum of just using dual CMYK colors hits close enough for all our clients.
  2. perfectpdf

    perfectpdf Member

    Jan 8, 2015
    Is the orange fading only on non laminated materials or are you seeing this on laminated materials also? The Orange and Red inks on the S80 are not MCS certified from my understanding.
  3. FrankW

    FrankW Active Member

    Oct 19, 2008
    We had customers with that issue too. 3M for example recommends to don't apply the prints right after laminating, but let it stay for a day or two. And of course, be shure that the print is cured before laminating.
    • OMG / Wow! OMG / Wow! x 1
  4. k.a.s.

    k.a.s. Very Active Member

    Aug 8, 2003
    NE ohio
    Ummmm this is not cool, I just switched to a HP less than a month ago. I read this thread today and tried it on a print and it seems to pull off easier than it should. I'm not sure that it is bad enough that it will delam on it's own but it should stick more than this. I would encourage everyone to try this.
  5. kazziu

    kazziu New Member

    Jul 24, 2013
    Adding to the topic, the same problem occurs while using a liquid laminate, i have tried laminates from all top brands in Europe, the adhesion is so poor that the laminate starts peeling off almost by itself, the laminate peels almost so easy like old skin after a sunburn. I have mentioned the topic on my homecountry board but it turned out nobody cared. I think this is a big deal, latex prints are in fact much more resistant to scratches and chemicals than solvent but You can easily scratch them with small sharp objects, bird poo cleans latex ink blank from the vinyl so lamintation is a must. I loved my liquid laminates for car wraps, 3 layers and the wrap was bulletproof, 3 times cheaper than roll lamination and 100% guarantee that the vinyl won't rise from the creases. For me this is the biggest problem with Latex, no one talks about it, and this is the first thread that actually picks it up.

    It shouldn't peel of easier in any case, the laminate should stick to the print like hell. What will You do when all the laminates start peeling of in a couple of years, i bet Your clients won't be pleased at all..
    HP should address this problem ASAP.
  6. AF

    AF Active Member

    Dec 8, 2013
    If the lam isn’t coming off on its own, it is technically doing its job. I have a 260 with plenty of laminated prints in harsh locations and haven’t had a delam. It is a shame that the new inks and consumables are not as reliable. I wouldn’t be surprised if some genius at HP added silicone to the ink to reduce scratching.
  7. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

    Mar 9, 2011
    Did some testing of this issue today. Both tests were done on bleeds with 100% printer black only.

    3M IJ180CV3 & 8519 could not pull up lam no matter how hard I tried. This was after laminating about 2 hours after printing.

    General Formulation 201 & 401. With a some effort I could pull up the lam. Interesting thing this job had a shape to it with a large amount of non printed area outside of the printed bleed. The unprintable area pulled up seemingly just as easy as the printed area. This vinyl was printed and laminated over a week ago, with probably 2 days between the printing and over-laminating.

    This whole issue is puzzling as it seems to be more than just the generation 3 ink being the factor.
  8. XtremeXccessories

    XtremeXccessories Premium Subscriber

    May 18, 2012
    Layton, UT
    We've definitely had this issue with our 360. Have to be very careful when wrapping near a section already completed (side print of vehicle overlapping the hood or bumper then trimming and removing). Pulls away especially easily when pulling up trimmed section that's already tacked down like in the attached images.

    I email our regional Avery rep and he asked for details that he could forward to their "quality team" (media/lam, print profile, rip, etc.). That was May of 2017 and I haven't heard anything since.

    P.S. Don't judge me by the pixelation on this job, customer insisted on using his image on their 34' RV..


    Attached Files:

  9. AKwrapguy

    AKwrapguy Active Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Anchorage, AK

    Slightly judging............ but not really. We all run into customers like this. Sometimes it is what it is.
  10. ewded

    ewded Member

    Aug 28, 2017
    I leave it plugged in, it wastes 12cc of ink in 48h (2000cc yearly) for cleaning and I never have to do head cleaning.
  11. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

    Nov 11, 2008
    Isn't HP's biggest selling feature that prints can be laminated and applied immediately after printing? So now they are claiming you need to wait around the same time as an eco-sol machine...interesting...
  12. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

    Mar 9, 2011
    Thanks for posting that. Now I know not to try Avery.
  13. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Active Member

    Dec 1, 2005
    Holy crap! That almost looks like you'd be able to reuse the vinyl after you peeled the print off!
  14. XtremeXccessories

    XtremeXccessories Premium Subscriber

    May 18, 2012
    Layton, UT
    lol, I hear ya. It looked just fine when you stood back far enough to see the entire image (15-20 ft), but up close....oof.

    Pretty much, yeah. Didn't stretch in the least, just peeled away...

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