Ignorant cheap people...this is driving me nuts!!!

[signmeup]

I think the point being missed is that wrap design is not a commodity. If your customer has paid for a good design and is all ready to go, he can shop it around to any number of competent shops for a quote.

 

[Jon Aston]

wiccapedia: "A commodity is some good for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market. It is a product that is the same no matter who produces it, such as petroleum, notebook paper, or milk...One of the characteristics of a commodity good is that its price is determined as a function of its market as a whole."

wraps are a commodity

mark galoob

What?!

I don't know how you, or anyone here could post that definition AND reach that conclusion. There are wraps that meet marketing objectives - by producing results... and there are wraps that don't.

The problem is that customers are ignorant (uninformed) and therefore perceive wraps as being commodities... with price as the differentiating factor. That's a marketing problem, with a marketing solution: Demonstrate higher value by demonstrating superior results...

1. Consult with the customer. What are their marketing objectives? How will they measure success? Phone calls? Leads generated? Invoiced sales?
2. Follow up with your customers, in the weeks and months that follow an installation. Is the wrap helping them meet their objectives? If yes, get results-focused testimonials for your website, brochures, future campaigns. If not, then you have an opportunity to help them surpass their objectives... sell them a better sign, or window graphics, or whatever.
3. Feature those results-focused testimonials in your marketing. If you're going to invite prospective customers into your showroom for consultation, get some of those babies on display.

Soapbox anyone?

 

[Sticky Signs]

You know what it probably was in the end. Someone describing to you what they were looking for as a "wrap" and really they don't truly understand what a wrap is. So you are quoting on full graphics covering the entire vehicle in full colour, and your competitor is doing potentially just vinyl graphics or a combination of print and digital.

I find a lot of times I am that off on an estimate is that we aren't comparing apples to apples and that is where the dramatic different is.

If however they are charging $1700 for a sprinter.. well then they aren't very bright...

I'm with K6 on this. the average joe does not understand that shop A is selling apples and shop B is selling oranges. There's a big difference between intermediate vinyl and high performance however the client doesn't know this, doesn't have to know this and doesn't want to know this. i like to take the time to educate my (potential) clients and give them options - not to many options though cuz that usually leeds to confusion. I'm not the most expensive shop in town and I'm certainly not the cheapest. I always explain what I'm going to do, how I'm going to do it and the benefits of why I'm doing it this way. Some clients will still go with elcheapo but the smart ones quickly realize that I'm not out to screw them. They see that I know what I'm talking about and take pride in what I do. They see value in my product and value in our working relationship. These are the clients I want and they usually come back for more.
The point? Make sure the client is comparing apples to apples and take a minute to educate them.

 

[Techman]

Soapbox anyone?

Jon,

I am beginning to think that some (too many) have no desire to really understand what you and I and a few others are trying to say to them. Or they have no clue and simply are at level one of total incompetence. That is they do not know what they do not know.

They come up with some off the wall strange interpretations, they post fantasy as fact, and they completely dismiss any pointers as blather.

Today I just used my 4P theory on a caller who wanted the cheapest possible price they could get. After finding the trigger point from the "profile" this person came right in and eventually paid what i asked. This marketing stuff works.

 

[gbarker]

All I ask is keep this in mind when you are dealing with a wholesaler. We have the same problem but it's from sign shops... How the heck did printed banners get to 1.50/sf? The cheap guys that don't give a crap about quality or customer service. Just food for thought.

 

[Mosh]

Simple, they like your work and go with you, or go somewhere else. No reason to get all fired up over it. I used to get mad when I lost a job or did even get a chance to bid on it.
You can't let that control yor life. I used to and now I am a raging alcoholic because of it. Just let it go and worry about the next job. Go with the flow man!!!!

 

[gbarker]

Simple, they like your work and go with you, or go somewhere else. No reason to get all fired up over it. I used to get mad when I lost a job or did even get a chance to bid on it.
You can't let that control yor life. I used to and now I am a raging alcoholic because of it. Just let it go and worry about the next job. Go with the flow man!!!!

Mosh, Maybe that's why I've been drinking more... I'm not to fired up about it. I know my work is good and I can charge appropriately for it. I was just reminding folks it goes all the way around. I have found myself not questioning prices for almost anything, doesn't mean I agree with them. When I buy something it's more of a personal question "Is this item worth that much to me?"

 

[signmeup]

Follow up with your customers, in the weeks and months that follow an installation. Is the wrap helping them meet their objectives? If yes, get results-focused testimonials for your website, brochures, future campaigns. If not, then you have an opportunity to help them surpass their objectives... sell them a better sign, or window graphics, or whatever.

Jon, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. If you don't get them the results they expect, they will happily fork over more cash to you so you can get the results they expected this time? That doesn't sound quite right. It's beem my experience that if you fail to deliver the first time, you get a chance (if you're lucky) to make it right for free or you'll never see a dime from that customer again.

 

[Techman]

If you don't get them the results they expect, they will happily fork over more cash to you so you can get the results they expected this time?That doesn't sound quite right. It's beem my experience that if you fail to deliver the first time, you get a chance (if you're lucky) to make it right for free or you'll never see a dime from that customer again.

Wrong focus..


Yes they will fork over more money.
Just because a product doesn't get results does not mean you did them wrong. All it means is that the product did not fit or reach the right demographics. If that is true then you have a chance to redo the product to reach those demographics that produce results.

 

[signmeup]

Wrong focus..


Yes they will fork over more money.
Just because a product doesn't get results does not mean you did them wrong. All it means is that the product did not fit or reach the right demographics. If that is true then you have a chance to redo the product to reach those demographics that produce results.

Jon,

Isn't it my job to sell the customer products that will perform by reaching the right demographic?

I'm pretty sure my customer would be pretty dissapointed if the $3000 wrap I did for them didn't get results. I'm not sure it would be so easy to convince them that forking over more cash for a sign or window splash would make things all better.

 

[signmeup]

You know what it probably was in the end. Someone describing to you what they were looking for as a "wrap" and really they don't truly understand what a wrap is. So you are quoting on full graphics covering the entire vehicle in full colour, and your competitor is doing potentially just vinyl graphics or a combination of print and digital.

I find a lot of times I am that off on an estimate is that we aren't comparing apples to apples and that is where the dramatic different is.

This just happened to me on some flat signs. The guy stops me on the street from his car and asks for a quote on 4 x 4 foot Alupanel "for sale" signs. I take his card and email him a quote. He tells me my price is way too high. A couple of weeks later I see new signs up on his place..... 3 x 3 coroplast with red Ariel. Well sure..... I can do that for a lot less than a 4x4 Alupanel sign.

 

[Fitch]

Now THAT'S what pi$$es me off... sorry to the other thread about profanities.

"This just happened to me on some flat signs. The guy stops me on the street from his car and asks for a quote on 4 x 4 foot Alupanel "for sale" signs. I take his card and email him a quote. He tells me my price is way too high. A couple of weeks later I see new signs up on his place..... 3 x 3 coroplast with red Ariel. Well sure..... I can do that for a lot less than a 4x4 Alupanel sign. "

Seems the person "best" able to convince is the person that gets the job. Usually relates to $$$$. Never apples with apples.

Also seems to me that EVERYONE misses out, the client (on good product), the opponent (who missed out on the job), the community who has to look at this shite, and the guy who got the job because he thinks because he got the job and made (some) money he is "the greatest designer in the world" and will continue to pump out second rate nephew art garbage that we all will cringe at, because he sees himself as successful - why change?

Sorry folks but each day should bring new challenges and a desire to grow in design, reputation, quality, ability, humility, and open mindeness to focus on a solution to customer needs - rather than just a small profit on a substandard job.

It's a responsibility as a group to open our mouths and educate those that are bringing the standard down... even if it gets us off side with them. Particularly in forums such as this. Teach... learn... educate all sides and we all win. Sometimes the standard has to be set so high that the thought process to new entrants has to be "I could never do that" rather than the current "I could do better than that" . Based on current lowballing price gauging, "ruin the industry so long as I am making money" (often those without reliant responsibilities such as a wife and family, mortgage, health etc) it may be the only way that we can ALL make a half decent living and say once again that it is a profession.


WOW ... now THAT'S a rant ...lol

 

[jfiscus]

Even your quoted $3000 is less than we would do a LWB sprinter high-roof for. Wraps are readily available, so you know customers are shopping around. You are selling the design, anyone can print & (some can) install a decent looking wrap; a good wrap is a rolling billboard so to speak, and brings in business/revenue to the customer.

 

[signmeup]

Even your quoted $3000 is less than we would do a LWB sprinter high-roof for. Wraps are readily available, so you know customers are shopping around. You are selling the design, anyone can print & (some can) install a decent looking wrap; a good wrap is a rolling billboard so to speak, and brings in business/revenue to the customer.

That's what I was thinking. You'll have to excuse me though as I don't even do wraps but it seemed to me I could purchase the wrap from a shop like Merritt and apply it with zero design talent. I think Techman gives some great advice. It's in the design part that I think is the only hope for a "real" wrap shop. People shop for price and most don't know quality from a hole in the ground. I guess you have to figure out how to attract the right customers.

 

[Jon Aston]

Jon,

Isn't it my job to sell the customer products that will perform by reaching the right demographic?

I'm pretty sure my customer would be pretty disappointed if the $3000 wrap I did for them didn't get results. I'm not sure it would be so easy to convince them that forking over more cash for a sign or window splash would make things all better.

I think your job is to learn/develop and continuously hone best practices in marketing and advertising design - and to use those to create measurable value for your customers.

The marketing strategy proposed above was based on the assumption that whoever is reading it isn't already doing it. Based on that assumption: today, you have no idea what results are realistic - and you're therefore not giving customers unrealistic expectations. You're simply asking the customer to state their objectives, encouraging them to measure results with some simple metrics, and following up.

If the wrap isn't producing the desired results, it's still helping them get closer to achieving their objectives (or should be). By following-up, aren't you demonstrating your interest and commitment to helping them succeed, as any good marketing partner would? By identifying and proposing additional tactics, or tactical changes, aren't you adding value to the customer's relationship with your company?

How many of your competitors are doing that? Not many... and more likely none.

As you repeat the process with customers, over time - gathering data, learning, and sharing their results (through results-focused testimonials)... you will (naturally, organically) begin creating realistic expectations for new customers. But even the (early in the process) customers, whose wrap didn't completely fulfill their objectives will be excellent sources of testimonials: Eg. "Signmeup takes a deep interest in helping you achieve measurable results. He follows up, and consistently brings creative solutions to the table, to help you achieve your marketing objectives. We wouldn't be where we are today without his help."

Sorry to be so long winded. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Techman]

3 x 3 coroplast with red Ariel. Well sure..... I can do that for a lot less than a 4x4 Alupanel sign.

This is the perfect example of why we must use the 4 P's. If this client had been properly profiled then this even would never have happened.

pivot profile praise prompt.

Isn't it my job to sell the customer products that will perform by reaching the right demographic?

If the profile is correct then your chance of hitting his needs is better.


The worst possible conversation goes like this.

How much is a wrap?
It's only 1995 and I can do it tomorrow

Ok, but joe's wrapper can do it for 1700.
Ya, I know, but I use the best materials and I have the best installer.

Well joe's guy is pretty good too!.
etc.. ad nauseum.

This is the commodity debate. Get out of there. Get into the educated conversation and you will never have to play lets make a deal. You get to play who wants to be a millionaire.

If there is anyone that needs a marketing consultant it is persons who posted on this thread.

 

[Jon Aston]

This just happened to me on some flat signs. The guy stops me on the street from his car and asks for a quote on 4 x 4 foot Alupanel "for sale" signs. I take his card and email him a quote. He tells me my price is way too high. A couple of weeks later I see new signs up on his place..... 3 x 3 coroplast with red Ariel. Well sure..... I can do that for a lot less than a 4x4 Alupanel sign.

Here's the thing. Based on hundred's of similar experiences posted in signs101.com, and that I hear early-on from sign companies in my consulting practice... This is predictable behaviour from (I'll hazard a guess) 80% of prospective customers.

When you think about it, can't most things that are predictable in business be managed?

You can blame customers. You can get angry and frustrated. You can vent and complain. But none of that will change their behaviour. To manage the situation, you have to change your own behaviour. Ask yourself "What could I have done differently?".

The guy stops you and asks you for an Alupanel "for sale" sign. So that's what you quoted him on. You let him control your sales process - by not asking questions that would further qualify the opportunity:

Eg.

• "Why Alupanel?"
• "How long do you expect this for sale sign to be in service?"
• "What's your budget for the project?"

Had you further qualified the opportunity, I'm willing to bet you might have proposed a similar solution to the one he purchased from your competitor.

 

[signmeup]

This is the perfect example of why we must use the 4 P's. If this client had been properly profiled then this even would never have happened.

pivot profile praise prompt.



If the profile is correct then your chance of hitting his needs is better.


The worst possible conversation goes like this.

How much is a wrap?
It's only 1995 and I can do it tomorrow

Ok, but joe's wrapper can do it for 1700.
Ya, I know, but I use the best materials and I have the best installer.

Well joe's guy is pretty good too!.
etc.. ad nauseum.

This is the commodity debate. Get out of there. Get into the educated conversation and you will never have to play lets make a deal. You get to play who wants to be a millionaire.

If there is anyone that needs a marketing consultant is persons who posted on this thread.

See....you were doing great until you added that last line. That condesending remark is just not required. You give some good advise on this forum but consitently blow it by adding snide little diggs like that. To start with, YOU posted on this thread as did Jon Aston....a consultant. Now YOU may need a marketing consultant, and I may need one too but I doubt Jon does.

You may not intend to but much of what you post makes you seem like an arrogant know-it-all. Like the little line in your signature..."The best can tutorial ever written" or some such nonsence. You screwed a can kit together....get over yourself already.

 

[Techman]

The guy stops you and asks you for an Alupanel "for sale" sign. So that's what you quoted him on. You let him control your sales process - by not asking questions that would further qualify the opportunity:

Eg.

* "Why Alupanel?"
* "How long do you expect this for sale sign to be in service?"
* "What's your budget for the project?"

Had you further qualified the opportunity, I'm willing to bet you might have proposed a similar solution to the one he purchased from your competitor.

A perfect example of why and how to profile the prospect.

 

[Techman]

See....you were doing great until you added that last line. That condesending remark is just not required. You give some good advise on this forum but consitently blow it by adding snide little diggs like that. To start with, YOU posted on this thread as did Jon Aston....a consultant. Now YOU may need a marketing consultant, and I may need one too but I doubt Jon does.

Sorry about that . But its not a dig at all. You merely took it as a dig.
I have already been there and got the trophy for feeling like a victim when something was pointed out to me. Lots of those that felt like digs but were actually the truth. Now instead of taking things personal I play the victor and glean out anything I can from any source about marketing.
Take it for whats its worth.