Is it customer's fault or mine

[ddarlak]

1000% your fault

if the client sent you artwork and it was spelled wrong - their fault.

if they sent you a email/paper copy of what they wanted it to say and you typo'd it!! - your fault.

the layout is to see how it is pleasing to the eye, they are not expected to FIND YOUR MISTAKES......

it is your profession, take pride

 

[round man]

In 99 out of 100 design programs and word processors there is a little squiggly red line that appears under misspelled words,and usually if you select the text with this underline and right click there will be a menu in windows' programs that give you the options for a correction...a lot of designers turn this feature off because it can be distracting in the design process,...but it is there to prevent the problem you describe,...It may seem like a hassle every time you type in a name that is not in microsoft's or apple's dictionary but the reason it is there has suddenly become very obvious here,..by default it is turned on in 99% of the programs and usually has to be disabled manually by the user,....check your settings,....In fact it appears in the text box you typed your original question for this post here,...I have no clue who is at fault in your case though,... maybe the client was messing around with your computer when you weren't looking,...what do I know?

 

[imagep]

If you want to keep the customer, it's your fault. If you are ready to dump them, then it's their fault.

Realistically, if it is just a simple spelling error, and if there is only one error, it really shouldn't be a big deal to your customer. If you gave them an opportunity to proof read and they didn't catch the error, then most likely no one else would catch the error either.

I have had customer complain and then tell me that that they will use these because its no big deal and ask if we can correct the error for the repeat orders. Those are the customers that ya gotta luv.

I have had other customers complain about something even more rediculous, like "I just dont like the typestyle, after they approved it and it was printed. I explain that they approved it and that it is the same as their proof, and they get really snotty with me and demand that we reprint at our expense. Then they say "and by the way, since your are going to reprint it, can you also change bla bla bla". Thats the customer that you need to dump imeadiately. They are trying to abuse you.

I once had a customer to refuse to pay us because the paper had visible fibers in the paper itself. Shouldn't have surprised me any, the first time this customer ever came to my shop they pulled out a stack of basically identical business cards explaining which printer printed each one and why they were unhappy with each one.

 

[imagep]

the layout is to see how it is pleasing to the eye, they are not expected to FIND YOUR MISTAKES......

I disagree with this part.

In my business we ask each customer to PROOF READ every document. We specifically ask them to check spelling and grammer. We explain that we require them to do that so that we can be 100% sure that they will be happy with the final product.

We don't just ask them "is this pleasing to the eye". That even sounds goofy.

 

[Techman]

In my business we ask each customer to PROOF READ every document. We specifically ask them to check spelling and grammer. We explain that we require them to do that so that we can be 100% sure that they will be happy with the final product.

In any business.
That business is posing as a higher authority. While acting as a professional and acting as a higher authority you are held to a higher standard. That is,, you will be held responsible for the work above and beyond that which is held for an average reasonable consumer.

Using a proof sheet as a shield for errors is holding the average consumer to the same higher standards as that of a professional.

Sorry, but entire publications of hundreds of books have been recalled over this very issue.

 

[Dave Drane]

Assuming you spelled it out ahead of time that after the customer's approval of the proof all responsibility for mistakes are theirs - customer's fault.

Gotta make it more than clear ahead of time. Otherwise, 100% your fault.

After the spill in the gulf I would be getting rid of that avatar... It is way too close to BP, and it is really on the nose. I can't stand to see those poor pelicans dying after being covered in oil..

 

[jmcnicoll]

When I've done similar jobs I always state to the client that once approved all corrections are at their cost and require full payment before I send the files to the printer. Some jobs I type out all the copy and some times copy and pasted from what they supply. Have done offset jobs that had errors in them but never a problem as it was always clearly stated that that once approved all corrections would be a cost to the customer.

jim

 

[Joe Diaz]

Like others have stated, we also require a signature on the proof before we order. But I have found that won't always solve the problem. After losing a lot of money on a large order a few years back, we have implemented a few more practices that protect us in these situations.

On that particular job we mistyped a relatively difficult to spell name. And even though they signed off on the proof, we still made a mistake and thought it would be better for our relationship with a very good customer if we were to take responsibility for the mistake.

What we do now is require that all text for printed material, like brochures, be submitted electronically. We then copy and paste the text. This means the customer is fully responsible for what THEY type.

In addition to that we recommend that customer order smaller quantities at first. This way if they do catch a mistake on that first batch, they won't have thousands of other brochures that are useless to them. I have found that most customers really like that idea. And in some cases, when they come back to order more brochures, they have other projects that they want to move forward on.

 

[signmeup]

I try to do what Joe said. Make them submit the text in a word doc. I'm always hitting the wrong keys. A printed proof is a good idea too.... even if you just print it out on your desktop inkjet. It always looks different printed on paper.
If i'm really worried about making a mistake I print it out and hand it to my wife.

 

[G-Artist]

Before getting into the sign trade I was in the printing trade and this issue was a common, everyday occurrence. At least it was if you read all the trade mags.

Universally accepted print industry std. is once it is proofed by the customer and the customer has signed off - it is no longer the typesetter's or printer's responsibility. It cannot be any other way. You may wish to suggest they have more than one person proof at their end. Even then, that system isn't 100% fool-proof - errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation will slip through at times.

 

[royster13]

8 years ago and $20,000.00 worth of business later I am still doing business with a real estate office that had a mistake on their 1st order of printing from me.....Yes they proofed it.....Yes it was their fault.....Yes I replaced it at my cost.....It was a business decision that worked for me.....

It is not about fault....It is about what is best for your business.....

 

[Gino]

Hey 'G'..... out of curiosity.... was that BC, before computers ?? I used to do a lot of paste-up and calligraphy for newspaper ads where I first worked. No matter what the customer gave us or wrote for us... it was our sole responsibility to make sure it appeared in magazines and newspapers without any mistakes. Their livelihood was at stake. We took a lot of heat if anything was wrong. The whole time I was there, I don't remember one mistake in spelling. We might've had something a little off center or the wrong stroke used, but never any errors in spelling. Then again, we always had three or four people proof read everything. We also turned all ads upside down to check for balance and aesthetics. we also did radio ads and jingles for radio people to recite for the advertisements. We were also hard on announcers that didn't enunciate or pronounce words correctly. 'ing' endings were out biggest pet peeves...

Anyway, with today's new people in business all around the world, using the latest software programs and the latest features at out fingertips.... would you really consider if I sent you something spelled correctly and you then misspell it buried in a ton of copy.... that it was my fault ??

Not poking or bad mouthing your post.... just a serious question ??

I think the standards have changed in the last almost 40 years or so, since I did these things, but more so, since the level of our profession has grown. The real question is.... how professional are the people doing this.... today ??

 

[Fitch]

For goodness sakes it's an "r". 99% of people would not pick it up.

Life is too short. Come to some sort of agreement, forget who is to "blame", and move on.

It's like a dropped memento... if you drop it you are the worst person on earth... if I drop it it's a mistake.

It's nothing more than mistakes happen and get over it. We're all human.

If it comes down to $$$ then deal with it. If it's down to image / reputation... then deal with it.

Source the root of what this is really about.

Stop playing the blame game. Sh!!t happens. tomorrow is another day.

And any day above ground is a good day.

Cheers - G

 

[WDP]

100% his fault absolutely his faults no its buts or whats about it. He had the time to look at it and you didn't rush him to approve. THATS WHAT PROOFING MEANS!

 

[G-Artist]

Hello, Gino.

YES - it was BC. Mostly lino setting, some hand type (headlines) and I remember we got a composer unit that would set type on paste-up paper using a chemical fixitive. I think the first one was blind in that it didn't have any sort of read screen. Later models had a one-line screen (green on black).

We'd set jobs up with hot type, run it on a proof press (mostly hand crank) and then visually 'proof it' which was done by at least 2 people.

Once we were satisfied with all the galleys, fixative was applied so the customer wouldn't get inky hands and then they got to proof it themselves. Once approved, on it went to film/plate production.

Once the customer approved it (which also included gutters, margins, etc.) any errors became their sole responsibility.

I highly recommend printing all output to proof read. To me, at least, it is easier to catch errors of all sorts that way.

 

[sjm]

Before getting into the sign trade I was in the printing trade and this issue was a common, everyday occurrence. At least it was if you read all the trade mags.

Universally accepted print industry std. is once it is proofed by the customer and the customer has signed off - it is no longer the typesetter's or printer's responsibility. It cannot be any other way. You may wish to suggest they have more than one person proof at their end. Even then, that system isn't 100% fool-proof - errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation will slip through at times.

So when you supply a PDF proof back of supplied artwork to the client and they give you the green light to proceed, we agree I think it's the client's fault.

 

[G-Artist]

So when you supply a PDF proof back of supplied artwork to the client and they give you the green light to proceed, we agree I think it's the client's fault.

Not exactly sure what the post really says but regardless whether the 'proof' is merely a PDF or comes off a color proofing press, once the client ok's it, it then becomes their sole responsibility....for grammatical, spelling and layout errors. If our colors are off (from the approved proof), it is still our problem.

The line for responsibility has to be drawn somewhere. Thankfully, the courts, being the final arbitrator, have set the standard ... and that std. is in my previous post as well as above.

That is not to say many folks in the industry won't work with the client to rectify problems with some sort of compromise such as a discount on the order or if you are a print publisher maybe a free and corrected ad in the next edition.

It is imperative in any business to fully communicate. Smart folks don't bury the "it is no longer our responsibility..." in boilerplate. They have an attached and seperate signoff sheet that fully explains what happens when the client signs-off on a job - any previously undiscovered "errors" become their sole responsibility.

Sometimes nothing can be done to immediately correct a problem. Imagine the horror of seeing your Yellow Page ad completely screwed up. Next printing is a year away.

 

[joeshaul]

For whatever reason I always envision my client being the Governor/Mel Brooks from Blazing Saddles whenever I send them a proof/design approval.

 

[Gino]

Ha.. I just thought of one. We do signs for a particular company that has locations all over the place. Usually we do one or two locations at a time. They can’t afford much more than that anyway. Anyhow, we just got an order in to do a specific sign which recently had a price or time change on it. We were to do 178 of these signs. Jeremy was setting up to do them and he had me come over and take a gander on his computer screen.

After four years of spelling ‘TRANSNACTIONS’ wrong, we caught the mistake and since all of these signs will be replaced…. no one is the wiser except for Jeremy and me. Now we’re getting paid to replace them for a different reason. It’s been four years since I first laid them out..... wrong. Oh pity pity.

Do I feel bad…. nope, not at all. I feel lucky on still another job.

Again, I just love my job.
​

 

[iSign]

In any business.
That business is posing as a higher authority. While acting as a professional and acting as a higher authority you are held to a higher standard. That is,, you will be held responsible for the work above and beyond that which is held for an average reasonable consumer.

Using a proof sheet as a shield for errors is holding the average consumer to the same higher standards as that of a professional.

Sorry, but entire publications of hundreds of books have been recalled over this very issue.

I disagree. To me, as a typesetter or designer, if I charge $100 or $1000 to do a design, and perhaps supply that design on a disc... I expect to send proofs, do revisions, and even catch typos... and when that job is done (signed proof) then any number of other things might result from that "APPROVED" design work... it could be flyers, it could be gold leaf, it could be a document stuck in a time capsule on the freakin moon... but if someone find a typo.. I will fix the typo for free & burn another disc... but hiring the space shuttle to run another freakin time capsule to the moon ain't happening.. My typesetting fees just aren't high enough to include free reprinting of any damn thing the client ever had done after THEY approved a layout...

For goodness sakes it's an "r". 99% of people would not pick it up.

Life is too short. Come to some sort of agreement, forget who is to "blame", and move on.

It's like a dropped memento... if you drop it you are the worst person on earth... if I drop it it's a mistake.

It's nothing more than mistakes happen and get over it. We're all human.

If it comes down to $$$ then deal with it. If it's down to image / reputation... then deal with it.

Source the root of what this is really about.

Stop playing the blame game. Sh!!t happens. tomorrow is another day.

And any day above ground is a good day.

Cheers - G

I agree with Fitch!