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Laminator disaster

Discussion in 'Laminators' started by chartle, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. chartle

    chartle Member

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    Nov 5, 2009
    Pgh
    I have a major laminator issue. If you check my history I came here 3 years ago asking for tips about my Royal Sovereign RCH-1401 H. Its been going ok but I still get alignment issues where after 10 feet I'm an inch or more to one side but this new issue is a show stopper.

    Since I only had a Roland SP-300 I've been only printing 30". I just got a new Mimaki setup with a 54" printer and a 51" cutter and I'm going to start to produce large amonuts decals and send them to our "sister" companies all over the country so they are counting on me.

    I started to print 54" sheets and I just can't get anything to laminate right. I'm laminating Oracal 3551 with 290 Lam.

    Everything is lined up and the lam is perfect.

    lam load.jpg

    And this is what I get

    lam output.jpg

    I also did a short video.

    [video=youtube;Px_JEfbxTsk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_JEfbxTsk[/video]

    I know this is lame but PLEASE HELP. :notworthy:

    I think 3 years ago a got a lemon of a laminator and just dealt with the issues but this is a not going to work. I can't just go back and say can I please have some more money to buy a real laminator.
     
    Tags:
  2. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    User error in my opinion (nothing personal and don't take it wrong or get all defensive, you are asking for help and opinions) although I'm not familiar with those laminators. I usually see that when someone new is trying to use ours. The material is not starting right - if one corner of the print catches and then you try to make it straight by pushing the opposite corner up the to nip, then the center will be out from the corners and it will bunch and wrinkle every time. Explaining the intricacies of laminator operation in type is not easy. You really need someone who knows how to run one right to come in and train you.

    If that is an actual machine problem then the machine is either bent, the rollers are badly warped, pressure is way higher on one side than the other, or somehow one side is trying to turn faster than the other.

    Best tip I can think of that might help would be use a sled, like a piece of thin 3mm pvc as wide as your material. Laminate on top of the pvc, stop the machine with about an inch of the pcv still sticking out. Make SURE the leading edge of the print is straight and square. You should be able to slide the leading edge under the pvc sled slightly sliding it left and right to make sure it is even all the way across. Bump the pedal with your foot to make sure it catches. Then just cut the sled leader off as it comes out the back.
     
  3. Vinylman

    Vinylman Very Active Member

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    Berlin Center, Ohio
    Possible solution

    The top {red silicon rubber} roller needs to be adjusted.

    You will need to remove the right side cover, [the one with the speed and heat controls].
    There is a set screw of sorts on top of the end bearing that holds the red roller. It should have a spring tensioned screw that presses down on the roller end. VERY CAREFULLY make adjustments to the screw, and check the "slip tension" along the length of the red roller where it contacts the bottom roll. You should have at least {4] 1" wide strips of paper about 12" - 18" long. Feed them into the nip between the feed rolls, while the laminator is OFF. drop the roll tensioner lever on the side as if you where going to run a job, then gently tug on each piece of paper to get an idea IF the tension is the same all across the roll. If you feel uneven resistance, then you would make a "MINOR" adjustment on the afore mentioned set screw. GO SLOWLY, and with a little perseverance:thumb:, you should be able to get the laminator set correctly.
     
  4. Gene@mpls

    Gene@mpls Very Active Member

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    Blaine, Mn
    Vinylman has it right. I believe that the roller(s) are crowned- so it it is tighter in the middle than the outsides that may be it.
    I have had 2 RS- and had to adj both of them. Once adjusted they are as good as anything... I believe. Gene
     
  5. Richard G

    Richard G Member

    I must agree. I have a GBC Titan 165 and if I don't pay attention when I am putting the vinyl in it will do that very same thing.
     
  6. TXFB.INS

    TXFB.INS Very Active Member

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    +1

    the top wheel tension is out of alignment.

    what pressure are you placing on the vinyl? too much pressure sometimes cause issues like this
     
  7. EyeCreate

    EyeCreate New Member

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    May 19, 2013
    I run the same laminator and have the same issues.
    In my case the machine is certainly out of spec and can not be brought back within reason due to excessive wear.
    The machine is about 4yrs old.
    We have taken the machine apart and found out the bushing have worn down and I think everything that aligns it is just out of wack and not able to bring it back in.
    I can adjust it to get tension corrected but it will quickly start going bad again.

    Anything over 4' wide x however long tends to be an issue.

    What is happening is on the right side where the pressure is applied to the roll you can see the laminate hitting the vinyl before the rest of the material causing a wave.

    The way I have corrected this is by keeping tension on the vinyl going into the laminator either by using the feeding roll or by rolling the material on a round tube and having 1 person hold pressure evenly as the material goes into the machine and then have another person help guide it coming out since it will hit the platten on the back of the machine.
    If you use this method you should find it works very well and almost all the time without issues.

    Works for me for now and saves a ton of prints from getting eaten.
    I have been doing it this way for over 1 year now and laminated lots and lots of prints, long and short.
    Each and every time I try to do it without the method I described it bites me and ruins things.
     
  8. SlightlyChilled

    SlightlyChilled Very Active Member

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    Hell
    you need a push pull gauge. I just went through the same thing. it was like 60 buck from grimco or you can ask them to loan it to you. The presser is off on one side.. I will see if I can find my paper work.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Mesa, Arizona
    Aren't RS laminators designed to be a tension system? If they are those ridges are because the image material is not under tension and the crowning is crushing the material causing it to channel.

    I would try a test run on the feed roller with tension to see if you get the same results.
     
  10. SlightlyChilled

    SlightlyChilled Very Active Member

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    Hell
    Yes and No if that were the case you would have to lock down what ever you lammed even the small stuff... The front feed roller is or was a add on if I recall. the tention on the tube holder is to help keep the feed in check so it wont walk on the tube... All I can say is I had the SAME problem and now I don't after setting it up.
     
  11. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    I have a RSC-1400C ... One other thing i noticed is that your attaching your print with x3 pieces of tape. I use x5 pieces and also hold my print a little to keep some tention.
     
  12. Hello Chartle. It would better to see a video from start to finish to get a better idea of your problem. Could be the way you put the media through the laminator, could be that your nip pressures is uneven due to much downward pressure, or it could be that your machine needs service. I would say that one of these could be your problem but again its hard to gauge what the exact problem is not being able to test it myself.

    what is your nip pressure set at???
     
  13. SlightlyChilled

    SlightlyChilled Very Active Member

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    Hell
    they have it under control.. she Pmed me
     
  14. Good to hear.
     
  15. Vinylman

    Vinylman Very Active Member

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    Berlin Center, Ohio
    ADJUSTING "NIP" Pressure on this laminator

    The attached is a screen capture from the service manual for the above mentioned laminator. Follow the instructions CAREFULLY, and everything should be correct.:thumb:
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  16. jmcnicoll

    jmcnicoll Member

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    Green Bay, WI
    This is why I would not buy a laminator with crowned rollers. I know good laminators are expensive, but they last and last and last. They cut down on mistakes and reprints as well! BIG AGL FAN!!!!!!
     
  17. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    User error. You have too much tension on the feed, and it's not straight.
     
  18. chartle

    chartle Member

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    Nov 5, 2009
    Pgh
    Thanks for all the replies especially Vinylman. I haven't had a chance to tear it apart yet but I'm going to work on the pressure issue this afternoon.

    As for some other suggestions like nip pressure and the like, I'm semi new to all the graphics stuff. I was hired as the Network/PC Support person. I just happen to know Adobe Illustrator and can manipulate anything to make it work. (Just don't ask me to design anything :smile: we have people for that) and they had just fired the person that pretty much ran the machine and I had to figure it all out. Luckily the application person was still here and showed me how to use the machine.

    Its been fun and hope to get out of PC support and do this for our parent company nation wide so thats why I panicked a bit since everyone is looking at me to be the expert.

    Thanks again.
     
  19. chartle

    chartle Member

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    Nov 5, 2009
    Pgh
    Ok small update.

    I got it cracked open. First Vinylman its not the same model but easy enough to figure out. It has two adjustment screws. I turned each one a quarter turn since without a gauge (working on that) I wasn't sure how much adjustment I would need. Now not sure if this makes a difference but one screw turned much easier than the other.

    I sent through the same graphic as before and it still bunched up on the right side but not enough that I couldn't keep it flat by kind of stretching it with my hands.

    So i'm going to give it another adjustment and see if its moving in the right direction.
     
  20. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

    4,583
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    Mesa, Arizona
    Are you free loading the image or using a roll on the tension feeder?
     
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