Laminator disaster

[Salmoneye]

You will not get this without using a gauge or at least pull strips. It looks to me like user error, have you tried using a sled and starting your print underneath the tail of that?

 

[chartle]

Are you free loading the image or using a roll on the tension feeder?

Freeloading, thats the only way I have ever done it. Until I got the new mimaki everything was in sheets of not much more than 8 feet.

Now that I have a takeup reel on the new printer that may change. Though then I guess I need a take up reel on the laminator.

Also and this relates to a PP I have started to not tape the image to the scrap liner paper but lift up the roller and slide into the nip. Seems to help with the skewing. Not sure if that makes a diff.

 

[chartle]

You will not get this without using a gauge or at least pull strips. It looks to me like user error, have you tried using a sled and starting your print underneath the tail of that?

Well I did start to use pull strips and I did feel like the right side needed to be tighter. I'm working on getting a digital pull scale.

The print starts fine for a maybe half the print and then it slowly starts to bunch.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Honestly most Crowned Laminators are designed to work under tension... if one part of the system is out of tension for an extended period of time it can cause these issues. I know one thing we use when we free load is the install clamp assistant that FELLERS sells/used to sell. It weighs about 2lbs and is about 40" wide, we clamp it to the end of the print and let it hold tension until the table then we unclamp it and finish the print.

Here is the tool I'm talking about: http://www.lidcoproducts.com/EZ_Gripper_Installation_Tool.cfm

 

[Gene@mpls]

This is why I would not buy a laminator with crowned rollers. I know good laminators are expensive, but they last and last and last. They cut down on mistakes and reprints as well! BIG AGL FAN!!!!!!

You do realize that it is the 'good' laminators that have the crowned rollers, right?

 

[jmcnicoll]

Not in my opinion. Have used the $8000 - $12000 crowned roller laminators and would not personally buy one. The high end straight rollers are much more accurate and precise machines to use. Compressed air tension and pressure is much nicer to use. Yes, I know your going to spend $20,000 or more, but you'll laminate better, waste less and never buy another one to replace it.

 

[401Graphics]

Is your leading edge perfectly straight?
See video

[video=youtube_share;rlr-a--zDG8]http://youtu.be/rlr-a--zDG8?t=7m36s[/video]

 

[chartle]

Latest update. Tweaked the pressure a little more and not really having the same issue. Did find it helps giving it a little tension.

 

[401Graphics]

The part in the video im referring to is at 7:42 The link i posted was set to start at that point but fred embedded the video, so it starts at the beginning.

 

[Ditchmiester]

you need a push pull gauge. I just went through the same thing. it was like 60 buck from grimco or you can ask them to loan it to you. The presser is off on one side.. I will see if I can find my paper work.

Do you know how much force the push pull gauge needs to be able to handle. I'm looking at getting one but they range from 5lbs to 250 lbs I don't know how much force it should take to pull it out?

 

[Vinylman]

Do you know how much force the push pull gauge needs to be able to handle. I'm looking at getting one but they range from 5lbs to 250 lbs I don't know how much force it should take to pull it out?

I have found that it is NOT necessary to use a push/pull gauge. Just put your hand on top of the material and run it into the rollers. When you feel like screaming "that hurts like H3LL" it should be just about right.

I would recommend you wait several days for the swelling to go down to adjust the other side. Otherwise your adjustments may be of a little bit.

BTW: the loss of ANY fingernails indicate you have way to much pressure on that side. Go slowly, and perhaps it may be helpful to have someone near the phone in the event you need Paramedics or a rescue squad to extricate your crushed fingers from the first attempt at making this adjustment.

I am fairly sure your second attempt at adjusting the rolls will go MUCH better, as we usually learn from our mistakes.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:



THIS IS A JOKE: Do NOT try this at home!! Or the shop for that matter.

 

[Ditchmiester]

I have found that it is NOT necessary to use a push/pull gauge. Just put your hand on top of the material and run it into the rollers. When you feel like screaming "that hurts like H3LL" it should be just about right.

I would recommend you wait several days for the swelling to go down to adjust the other side. Otherwise your adjustments may be of a little bit.

BTW: the loss of ANY fingernails indicate you have way to much pressure on that side. Go slowly, and perhaps it may be helpful to have someone near the phone in the event you need Paramedics or a rescue squad to extricate your crushed fingers from the first attempt at making this adjustment.

I am fairly sure your second attempt at adjusting the rolls will go MUCH better, as we usually learn from our mistakes.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:



THIS IS A JOKE: Do NOT try this at home!! Or the shop for that matter.

Posting this from the ER. Should Have read the whole post before diving into it. :Oops:

 

[CES020]

Has anyone seen the push push gauge listed at any suppliers? Grimco was mentioned but I can't locate it on their site and I don't find much of anything in the normal places.

We recently acquired an old Seal laminator and we're having the same issues. I've rebuilt the air cylinders and adjusted it so some degree, but it needs something a little more and that tool might help me get it resolved quickly.

 

[Ditchmiester]

http://www.amazon.com/Analog-Gauge-...id=1390406617&sr=8-1&keywords=push+pull+gauge

This is the one I am looking at getting.

 

[QuickSilver2605]

Best tip I can think of that might help would be use a sled, like a piece of thin 3mm pvc as wide as your material. Laminate on top of the pvc, stop the machine with about an inch of the pcv still sticking out. Make SURE the leading edge of the print is straight and square. You should be able to slide the leading edge under the pvc sled slightly sliding it left and right to make sure it is even all the way across. Bump the pedal with your foot to make sure it catches. Then just cut the sled leader off as it comes out the back.

We have a similar model and this is the method that we use. We use a thin sheet of pvc covered in masking tape that we run through first to make sure the lam is feeding without any wrinkles, stop the machine when there is about an inch left and tape the material to it. Anything we print/cut has registration marks on the left and right side so I place a ruler to measure the distance of the registration marks to make sure it is not crooked.

 

[chartle]

newest twist

Ok I have finally gotten back to the laminator issue. Right after I posted this I had about a month of horrible computer issues. I'm also the network engineer here and we had a server that crashed avery 19 hours day or night.

But anyway after having the laminate travel across the rollers about an inch per 20 feet I adjusted the pressure across the rollers. The lam is not moving a mm now but have another issue that just seemed to pop up.

Here is a video. I didn't want to waste lam so I just ran some left over release paper through it.

[video=youtube;keEecIuxJ_E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keEecIuxJ_E&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I bought the front feeder and the rear power take up real for the laminator. I get everything straight and as you can see very quickly the left side starts to ride up as if the material was fed crooked. If I stop the machine I can slide it over to straighten it up but it just keeps moving over.

I'm I right in that maybe the front roller is messed up or maybe the pressure rollers are not square to the machine.

Thanks for everyones help. I didn't forget about you just I do a lot of stuff here.

 

[JBusch260]

Hmm.... that is a bummer.. if you advance the feed roll, does it still get bunched up like that? Could be an uneven pressure issue on the rollers as well.

 

[chartle]

Hmm.... that is a bummer.. if you advance the feed roll, does it still get bunched up like that? Could be an uneven pressure issue on the rollers as well.

Not sure what you mean be advance the feed roll. As for uneven pressure I did just adjust it using my cobbled together force gauge. Its one of these with strips of banner material.



It was tight on the left side with it falling out on the right side. I got it to within 10 or so grams of force.

 

[gnatt66]

i use a piece of coroplast or pvc about 8" wide that is prefed into the laminator. i leave about 1" of it exposed and "tuck" my print under it..nearly always tracks decent.

 

[chartle]

i use a piece of coroplast or pvc about 8" wide that is prefed into the laminator. i leave about 1" of it exposed and "tuck" my print under it..nearly always tracks decent.

Well for my test I raised up the rollers and fed the material through pulling it tight to make sure it was lined up according to the machine and then lowered the top roller. I've even done this when I have laminated instead of using a board or scrap liner.