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Mac vs. PC

Mac vs. PC

  • PC slower than 2.5 MHz

    Votes: 31 23.3%
  • PC faster than 2.5 MHz

    Votes: 69 51.9%
  • Mac G4 or older

    Votes: 21 15.8%
  • Mac G5

    Votes: 26 19.5%

  • Total voters
    133

djenurm

New Member
I'll have to disagree with points I saw in the last two posts.

It's been proven time and time again lately that compared to other manufacturers Apple actually often comes out cheaper when you compare similiar specs. They used to seem more expensive when you couldnt compare the components but not anymore. Yes you can find a cheapo pc that is "cheaper" but Apple will not stoop that low it's not worth it to them to play in the low end. You get what you pay for.

The unix os does have just as many tweakable if not more attributes to mess with than windows. If you owned one and thought of something you would like to change, google it and you'll probably find a hard way to do it and also a simple program for tweaking it just as you'd find with Windows. I can compare the two pretty easily as I have both operating systems running at the same time on my Apple iMac, and for those that don't know this yet - it's full speed ahead and no emulation involved.

The security through obscurity myth is repeated time and time again yet still seems to carry on. The FreeBSD Unix code that forms the foundation of OS X has been prodded by legions of expert programmers for 30 years. Many orders of magnitude more people have looked over the source code for OS X and the related BSDs than have access to Windows source code so many of the obvious holes in OS X were closed years ago. That, some suggest actually makes OS X a more attractive target. According to Apple there are at least 19 million OSX users and still zero viruses. According to CNET, the Windows Vista Beta was released "to about 10,000 testers" at the time the first Windows Vista virus arrived. Shouldn't the 10,000 small at the time Vista have been obscure enough to hide from virus writers using this logic? Does anyone reading this not think that a real OSX virus wouldn't make headlines everywhere? There are so many Windows viruses that writing a new one is hardly noticed. If I were a fame-driven cracker with solid technical skills, cracking a BSD-based system would be the fastest way to show off my capabilities. Its just too hard to do thus after 8 years of doomsday predictions it still hasn't happened. The media is to blame for carrying this myth... so and so at Symantec (who wants to sell mac users protection) says macs are unsafe (and this IS where these things start). The newspapers and tech writers pick this stuff up and write whatever it takes to get the most interested readers using the "expert" as their source. The NY Times David Pogue understands the myth after making this mistake recently wriiting "I also wrote that Mac OS X and Linux are virus-free because they offer virus writers a much smaller “audience” than Windows -- a notion that’s been much repeated in the press, most recently last week’s BusinessWeek cover story. That, as it turns out, is a myth, no matter who repeats it. There’s a much bigger reason virus writers don’t like Mac OS X and Linux."

As for the iPod being a fluke or another brand being able to do better for the money? I don't even know where to start with these statements. I agree that Apple didnt expect this much of a response and that is in itself a fluke, but for the iPod being a better product... that was planned and successfully executed. It is so hugely obvious how much better their fit and finish and attention to detail are that I can't believe someone in the graphics or sign business can't see this glaring difference between the ipod and the also-rans.

Well enough .02 for now. I don't mean to offend anyone I'm just tired of people carrying on these Apple myths.

Dave
 
Dave -

Apple's OS X is not as virus free as most would believe. There actually was a virus for OS X this year. Another myth is that Macs do not crash. That is just not so - they are just as capable of crashing as other computers. What I have always liked about the Macs is, just as you stated, they have always leaned towards a higher-end component and the new Intel Mac is not any different.

As for the Ipod, there are many other just as capable machines available - and I for one am glad too see some of the air come out of Ipod's cost. Ipod's largest threat is coming from Sandisk and their flash players with no moving parts. (Sandisk is #2).

The biggest advantage of the Ipod is that they have the largest selection of aftermarket accessories - if it matters to the purchaser. To throw a wrench in the works, I understand that some of these third party add-ons will not work with the latest generation of Ipod (or at least the new Ipods will not work with the older accessories).
 

Techman

New Member
they have always leaned towards a higher-end component

Again I ask. What is the higher end component? They use the same hard drives. the same meory, the same video and sound? So where is the higher end component?
 

djenurm

New Member
Techman that is a good question. I don't know how to back this up or quantify it but I know that I have read about them being very strict with their suppliers as far as visiting the manufacturing plants and demanding above industry average tolerances. Their cases, especially the pro line are far above what you find in an HP or a Dell. Have you ever seen how thick the aluminum panels in a pro case are? They didnt have to do it that way but did because cost is not high on the list when they design as it is with other manufacturers living on cut throat margains. They don't buy a bargain basement power supply because they dont have to. I actually like macs better because of the build quality over any other reason. Even their cheapest iMac has a fit and finish that is far superior to anything else in its $999 price range. They aren't using cheap abs and stamped pot metal like most everyone else. Its funny but Steve Jobs is so anal about product design that he nit picked over the feel of even the headphone jack on the ipod. Mike Evangelest, an ex Apple employee goes over many such examples throughout his online book "Steve Jobs I've Known" here http://writersblocklive.com/part-13 It's interesting to learn how things go on behind the scenes there. For many parts you are right, The processor hard drive and memory are no different than what you get in a dell. It's the overall quality of the machine that makes it different.

Dave
 

2NinerNiner2

New Member
yeah, those darned Macs are SO much more than the others... :)


...and I didn't even get into the included software equivalents, just, as Techman say, "the parts":

17" Display
2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo
2GB RAM
160 GB HDD
8x DVD RW
256 MB Video RAM

Yeah, give me a Mac any day! ... I can't afford the others :)
 

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Color - Here is a link to what happenned early this year.

http://www.gopaultech.com/?p=262 .

Considering that we do not have Macs, we cannot say of any personal experience other than what we read long ago. We have been fortunate that we do not deal with viruses on our PC's.

Tech - To clarify about "high-end", Apple at one time used primarily name-brand components. I do remember that even with the PC's there was a time that if we did not spend the extra money on "name" there was going to be an RMA. Even the warehouse did not get it, as they sold many of the same no-name to other customers and never had an issue. Much of that has changed now, but I still have my favorites. At the same time, knowing that you were certified and deep into the PC business, I cannot even attempt to claim to be on the same level as you are :thumb:
 

djenurm

New Member
I have been a VB programmer for years, in fact it was my line of work until I've gotten myself into this. The link to PaulTech describes a trojan, it does not do anything that the operating system was not designed to do. I could write a program that deletes your C drive and post this program on my web page for download. It's easy to do, Microsoft's development tools allow pretty much anything as they should. You could then download and run it and it will do as intended. All of this requires user intervention. You had to make the choice to download and run the program. Your system was compromised because you gave the program permission to run. I could do the same thing using Apples XCode to royally screw up an OSX install. What would make it a trojan would be my telling you that it was a cool new piece of sign clipart so you go ahead and run it.

Where OSX differs from Windows is that the hackers have not figured out a way to get an executable onto an Apple and have it run against the users will. Windows virus writers have no problem getting this done. There are Windows viruses/spyware that will self replicate spreading like wildfire through helpless Windows computers on the internet hidden from the users view. You don't know until it's too late. Paying Symantec for security software is like putting a security guard in front of a wide open door, it helps but something sneaky could still slip by. This just does not happen with OSX, the far superior old school UNIX security does not allow for it, you have to give it permission first. Technically with a trojan the operating system was not compromised, the users intelligence was.

Dave
 

iSign

New Member
I agree that Apple didnt expect this much of a response and that is in itself a fluke, but for the iPod being a better product... that was planned and successfully executed. It is so hugely obvious how much better their fit and finish and attention to detail are that I can't believe someone in the graphics or sign business can't see this glaring difference between the ipod and the also-rans.

Dave

with 6 pc's (well, 7 counting the unopened box delivered this morning) & 10 years of completely virus-free pc allegiance... I think Mac's are great... I just have no need for one. I had a G5 Imac, and while cool & everything, it just didn't offer me a single thing I needed... so I returned it

...BUT, I finally gave in & bought myself a 30 gig iPod. I sync'd my 2500 songs off my PC version of iTunes... and I love it.

I looked at the "also-rans" & I have to agree with Dave. The iPod is the best mp3 player I saw. (sure, the others should sound as good... but while style isn't everything, it's something... and from a durability standpoint, I trust Apple)

(there was one also-ran that looked comparable... but it wasn't cheaper, so I figured I might as well go with proven technology)
 

SignCrafter

New Member
Mac for life!

My new Mac Pro rocks! I can run window on it too so it does whatever I need it to. Rips 1 gig .tifs very quick to my printer.
 

Geary

New Member
This subject is sorta timely for me. I have an uncle that just walked into my studio yesterday and said...."oh, your a mac guy. Really elitist, eh? You Mac guys are always lookin' down yer noses and lookin' to pick a fight at everyone else who's a PC user." Okay, let me just say, I wasn't pickin a fight, and this statement came from THE "penney pincher" in my entire family. And there's a LONG line of penney pinchers there. LOL I calmed him down though when I asked him how he liked all the new Mac ads on TV. He actually chuckled out loud about them. So, there ya go.

Am I making sense here. I can't tell. I've just returned from a gig and some people bought me four glasses of wine. The last one being a HUGE champagne.....so, I can't tell if I'm being funny or just a jackass. Ever get that way? :tongue:

LuvYa,
Gear


ps....SignCrafter, I'm jealous, I haven't saved up enough nickels yet for my new one. Can't wait. :thumb:
 

weaselboogie

New Member
I usuuuually have moorre missspellings whhen I"m that wayy.

I got a deal on a refurbished Dell.
3.6 ghz P4
2 gb Ram
128mb video
160 gb RAID drive
dvd-r
$550


I have 3 refurbished dells, the oldest is 7 years and I only had to replace the hard drive. Bash dells if you will, but I have had the best of luck with them.
 

macace

New Member
well we are using mac's... we do have a pc as an cut server...
all is done on the mac's and then cut thru the pc...

What cut apps do U guys use om the mac?
we use flexi 7.5
 

decals

New Member
I have a Core2Duo Macbook. 2ghz w/ 1gb ram and 80gb hdd. I love it. Whereas.. I've got a PC with a 3.4ghz Intel P4 with a gig of ram and 80gb hdd that is nothing but a pain in the neck. The Macbook is great for my college classes, watching movies, burning dvds, etc. Its also nice for design but the graphics card is a bit underpowered for gaming. I would recomend the Macbook Pro for gaming.. but this is all about vinyl graphics and not game graphics =) Anyhow.. through experience, the macbook runs circles around desktop macs with the exception of the dual g5.. which is a beast.

l_8e5e020f5ba7c16753178d44b0b93b95.png
 

The Vector Doctor

Chief Bezier Manipulator
I think you have that backwards. The Mac notebooks are excellent machines but they are nowhere near as fast as the Mac Pro desktops. Those have 2 Dual Core Xeon Processors while the best notebook apple offers is a Single Core Duo chip. The Mac Pro desktops blow away the laptops which is to be expected.
 

Geary

New Member
But Look at This....wow!

Hey Doc,

I think he did say the new g5 is the exception....calling them the "beast". :wink:

Oh, yeah and then there was this I wanted to share, I was just reading the specs here http://www.apple.com/macbook/intel.html on that Core2duo. Wow. Advancement in technology still blows me away when you don't read up on the latest stuff in the last 6 months. Just LOOK at how much has happened. :cool1:

~Gear
 

The Vector Doctor

Chief Bezier Manipulator
Yeah, I noticed that afterwards. But actually the "new G5" is the older model. Photoshop is faster on the older G5's but that will change when Adobe releases CS3. The only desktops that I know of that the notebooks "run circles around" would have to be the Mini's.
 
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