Ok you Apple Sheep !

[ForgeInc]

sooooooo.....

In just a few short moments, you've gone from being unaware that Adobe published versions of its programs for PCs in the nineties to......

having an opinion on how useful these versions were in comparison to the fabled Mac versions...


Your speculative powers amaze me.

Ok OG - I will go so far as to say whenever you say or think adobe became available on PCs, or that how useful or non-useful they were, that you are right and I wrong.

Amazing that you still find it necessary to argue and debate this subject with me, when the objective of my long winded post was to say it doesnt matter what platform you use! I'm not a good writer sometimes but the point was (And I KNOW you remember it was you and I going back and forth then, too) I said I was WRONG then, and you were RIGHT!

UGH!!!

 

[oldgoatroper]

I remember those days. I still have some of the floppy discs and the harder 3" ones laying around stitch files on them. I don't use the true floppy ones anymore, but I will on occasion load those on the one computer that I have that still has a drive for those diskettes. Ironically that computer is running Linux.

Not to continue the hijack too much, but back in the nineties, I had a massive collection of both kinds of floppies -- I spent many hours on a multitude of BBSs dl'ing stuff -- and when I finally copied all this stuff to about maybe half a dozen Iomega Zip disks (later put on a single CD), I had a garbage bag full of floppies.

I still have my CorelDraw version 1 and version 2 floppies, though...

 

[oldgoatroper]

Ok OG - I will go so far as to say whenever you say or think adobe became available on PCs, or that how useful or non-useful they were, that you are right and I wrong.

I was not making any assertion that could be deemed right or wrong.

I was pointing out that you suddenly seemed to have knowledge on a subject that, by your own admission, you were moments before unaware of.

You are sidestepping the issue by trying to make it about me being right and you being wrong.

Amazing that you still find it necessary to argue and debate this subject with me...

I am not debating the subject per se, as in taking a position and supporting it. I am simply pointing out discrepancies in your own assertions.

I do not actually know if Mac versions of Adobe programs were more "accepted" (whatever that means) or more "usable" than their PC counterparts in the early to mid nineties. I was just asking how you came to make this assertion when, moments before, you weren't even aware PC versions existed at that time.


And as far as the publishing dates for Adobe PC versions... well, that's not a matter of my opinion --these are just simple facts one can look up on Wikipedia.

 

[Locals Find!]

As the one who made the "cult" member comment. Let me clarify something. That was directed to the professional members of this site who choose to use a Mac for whatever reason. A Mac is the same as another other tool. Its the person using it that matters here.

Now, my comment was about those regular folks out there you see em at starbucks telling me how they are superior because, everything they do is Mac. How, I am just not smart enough, cool enough or wealthy enough to be a member of that elite club. Those are the ones I wanna hit with a 2x4. Those who eat, breathe, pray and crap Mac.

If Jobs says buy it well you gotta buy it. Macs even try to restrict your music & movies to only mac devices. They also make it damn near impossible for me to release my apps to mac users I gotta jump through so many friggin hoops it makes it not worth pursuing.

Window, droid and many other OS do things using industry standards. They are standards for a reason the world agreed things should be done a certain way to allow the free flow of information. Apple as a company wants to strangle that free flow of information to only what they deem worthy. I view that as a "Cult" If it pisses you off too bad.

If apple was truly superior as they say they are they wouldn't have the smallest market share in every category of device they manufacture.

 

[Bly]

You mean Macs are just computers?

Colour me flabbergasted.

 

[bjones]

Adtechia, no offense, but you're so far off the mark it's scary.

Like or hate apple, when it comes to the hottest categories of apps (I assume you intended to include them due to the Android reference) they pretty much OWN them right now. The apple app store is selling more apps (key word SELLING) on a given day than any other store by a mile. It's not even close. If you want to publish a mobile app there's really nowhere else to go that is worth the effort unless you want to give it away. THat's not apple zealotry, that's easily verified by anyone. Yes, the apple store has it's rules, but it's those rules that breed consumer confidence that what they are downloading is safe which in turn drives sales. This is why you're seeing google going down this path and also microsoft. Easy to say that apple is being the gatekeeper and poo poo that, but the sheer numbers of sales BECAUSE they play that role is mind boggling compared to any other competitor. The 'hoops' thing is odd, what hoops do you refer to? Mobile, you submit, wait 24 hours and you're good to go and have a bajillion times larger audience to sell to. Desktop, publish and sell however you want.

Now, if you did not intend to say mobile, the statements are even further away as there are no restrictions or vetting process for Mac desktop apps unless you intend to sell them through apple's store. From that perspective it's just the same as developing windows, mac or android apps.

I do work on all platforms and have published apps on them all. Try to be objective and you'll see that app dev is all basically based on the same standards these days. (if you disagree, can you name a couple that Apple does differently?)

 

[The Vector Doctor]

If apple was truly superior as they say they are they wouldn't have the smallest market share in every category of device they manufacture.

Uh, no. The only category in which they don't have dominant or significant market share is the desktop/laptop market.

 

[ForgeInc]

I was pointing out that you suddenly seemed to have knowledge on a subject that, by your own admission, you were moments before unaware of.

I do not actually know if Mac versions of Adobe programs were more "accepted" (whatever that means) or more "usable" than their PC counterparts in the early to mid nineties. I was just asking how you came to make this assertion when, moments before, you weren't even aware PC versions existed at that time.


And as far as the publishing dates for Adobe PC versions... well, that's not a matter of my opinion --these are just simple facts one can look up on Wikipedia.

Funny you mention wikipedia. From the Adobe Illustrator page on Wikipedia:

".... The first version of Illustrator for Windows, version 2.0, was released in early 1989 and flopped. The next Windows version, version 4.0, was widely criticized as being too similar to Illustrator 1.1 instead of the Macintosh 3.0 version, and certainly not the equal of Windows' most popular illustration package CorelDRAW. "

and this:

"...With true ports of the Macintosh versions to Windows starting with version 7 in 1997, designers could finally standardize on Illustrator."

Of course WIkipedia is hardly the end all of accurate facts I hope the above illustrates why I made the statement you seem to have a problem with. As you can see I wasn't just pulling random assertions out of my arse. Maybe YOU should do some research before posting too, eh?

But again I would submit it's all irrelevant anyway because although it's sometimes fun, it's a pointless, never ending debate.

 

[Techman]

I still have my copy of Corel draw 6 suite for Power Macintosh on my shelf. Any body want it? It can be obtained for a small shipping fee.

That period of life was my first and last foray into the land of MAC. That very expensive and proprietary experience was the defining reason I went back to PC's and earned a small fortune in writing code, became a windows / PC security guru, building, fixing and tweaking a PC in some shape or form.

Like so many others who suffered that learning period.. That experience made windows the dominant form it is today. So today we have the MAC world claiming superior technology when it is actually all the same. The mood and attitude set in those backwater days is what everyone hates and debates. Not the hardware..

 

[oldgoatroper]

I hope the above illustrates why I made the statement you seem to have a problem with.

Either you are dense or you are being obtuse.

To reiterate, I did not agree or disagree with your statement. I was asking how you could support it, if at all, given that you made it so soon after discovering the truth. Well, it appears you finally did support it, and now, I am far more likely to accept that statement.


If I were to offer you any advice, it would be to try to infer less when reading other's posts and imply less when writing your own.

 

[WrapYourCar]

Mac's look much better, and have alot less viruses, i'd prefer to work on a MAC that's why i like them, if you want to play computer games then yep the PC is probably better.

 

[WrapYourCar]

yes the flaws of a PC helped fund and create jobs for many techies and antivirus companies, the best of them probably owned and operated by Bill Gates too. Perhaps car manufacturers should build cars that have wheels that fall off all the time, so jobs can be made for people who refit wheels hahaha.

 

[David Wright]

It never ends.

 

[mopar691]

Mac's look much better

I rightfully disagree. I love my big internally lit box. And I change the colors to match my mood.

The PC sits on my desk for all to see. The Macpro sits neatly in a cubby out of sight. The mac boxes have remained the same for quite some time. I thought they looked good in '04 or '05 when I got my first G5, but now the design is kinda boring and old in my eyes.

 

[oldgoatroper]

Mac's look much better, and have alot less viruses, i'd prefer to work on a MAC that's why i like them, if you want to play computer games then yep the PC is probably better.

"Macs look much better" (no need for an apostrophe when the noun is plural)

Ummmmm. Ok. My PC sits under the desk. Honestly, I don't really care how it looks. I look at the monitor. I don't even look at the bezel around the monitor. Just what is displayed on the monitor. That's it.



"...and have a lot less viruses"

A far more accurate statement would be "have less potential for contracting a virus because most viruses are written to target the largest segment of the personal computer market -- Windows PCs."

But yet, my PC has not had a virus in several years because I have taken precautions and am mindful of the threats out in the wild -- unlike several million Macs. So, in fact, my PC has had less viruses than many Macs.



" i'd prefer to work on a MAC that's why i like them"

Soooooo, restated, that would be, "I like Macs because I prefer to work on them."

Can you say, "circular reasoning"?



"if you want to play computer games then yep the PC is probably better."

Why should that be? Aren't PCs and Macs pretty much identical hardware? Or is the Apple OS somehow handicapped when it comes to displaying graphics, which is what most games are comprised of? But wait, that can't be it. A Mac is just as adept as a Linux or Windows PC at running X-Plane, a very computationally and graphically intensive flight simulator.

Perhaps you really meant that there are just fewer games available for the Mac platform? Which is just a function of the lopsided PC/Mac market and has little to do with whether one platform is more suitable for games than the other.

 

[oldgoatroper]

yes the flaws of the Windows OS helped fund

Fixed that for you.

the best of them probably owned and operated by Bill Gates too.

Now folks, this is a perfect example of a wild, speculative statement that can have no place in any meaningful debate.

Perhaps car manufacturers should build cars that have wheels that fall off all the time, so jobs can be made for people who refit wheels hahaha.

You should run this idea by them and you can cite the proof you have on Bill Gates. Maybe they'll give you a cut.

 

[ForgeInc]

If I were to offer you any advice, it would be to try to infer less when reading other's posts and imply less when writing your own.

Thanks OG. I was raised to respect my elders so I will take your advice to heart. That said I would submit it was YOU who inferred I was simply making assertions based on "speculative powers" and not any facts by implying my reasoning wasn't accurate. My facts may have been a few years off, but I think my reasoning was solid as I speak from a bit of experience on the subject.

But I digress...again I am falling victim to what I hate about this whole debate, it goes on and on with no benefit at all, really.

The Mac vs PC debate is kinda like an Addy thread or a trainwreck....you want to try and not take a look as you drive by, but have to because it's so damn interesting...in the long run it just ends up slowing down traffic!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

... What I DO find interesting is I bet a majority of mac users could care less what computer you use, and wouldn't call anyone a "sheep" or "superficial" simply based on the type of computer they use.

...But if someone starts a mac thread or asks questions of other mac users, undoubtly there will be someone chiming in on how naive said person is to want to do something on a computer that is SO overpriced, and try to convince said user that because they use a mac they must be a "follower" or have "bought into the hype" and say they are part of the "cult of Jobs" or other nonsense. Who the frick cares?

geez people... you can't debate an experience!

you may as well be challenging a person toilet paper preference
you could challenge Charmin users and call them Mr. Whipple groupies
ask them to justify why they spend the money that particular pricey brand
and then not accept the fact that they just like the way it feels on their hiney.

heck, i think i'd prefer that debate

 

[mopar691]

geez people... you can't debate an experience!

you may as well be challenging a person toilet paper preference
you could challenge Charmin users and call them Mr. Whipple groupies
ask them to justify why they spend the money that particular pricey brand
and then not accept the fact that they just like the way it feels on their hiney.

heck, i think i'd prefer that debate

I fold, I just do not understand how people can wad!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

I fold, I just do not understand how people can wad!!!!!!!!!!!

iiiii know, right!
what are they thinking? wadders, what a bunch of dumba$$e$