One of "those" guys...software? What's that?

[Newsignguy]

where does he get to recover some of that $30K he paid for the printer?

He never had a printer. He doesn't do color printing (not large scale anyway.. he may do smaller stuff now)...he outsources his banners/wraps. He uses a 24" cutter for all his vinyl work. He does some multicolor/cuts with that.

Is 100 bucks an hour the average rate? Is it normal to charge 3 hours for a one hour job?? Maybe he charges 300 dollars an hour? Actually you might be on to something there...hmm..he did forget to kiss me another time..I helped him (his request..lol..not the reason for the additional cost!) do up 3 signs for me one time (3 words, one color, 8" tall lettering each, one word per sign on coro, longest being 36") I brought the beer, he gave me a (near) 300 dollar bill with the signs an hour later...this is when I started getting quotes first, and also my last purchase from him.

Let's stop beating this dead horse....

 

[Techman]

I don't feel I need to be getting even close to what he is attempting to charge to be in the right arena. There is a reason people are going out of town for this type stuff.

IF you don't feel the need then it is time to get a job and leave the real sign makers alone.

A true business man would not ever say this let alone "feel" it.

 

[CentralSigns]

If you don't charge what he does will you be leaving money on the table? He will get old and die one day, don't you want his customers? If someone ?
Maybe he charges so much because he can't take on any more work and wants to slow the calls down to what he has time to do.

 

[iSign]

He never had a printer. He doesn't do color printing

dude.. don't F'n tell me you "gave him the design.. all he had to do was print it" ...and then tell me he has no printer... I don't give a flyinphuq who the hell has what... you are an idiot writing crap nobody gives a sh!+about... and mixing up everything except how cheap you wanna be... you are the dead horse... shut up if you don't want a beating... change your tune, or expect the same damn song and dance!

 

[CentralSigns]

Basement with a cougar vs basement with lynx next door. I bet ya.

 

[Newsignguy]

If you don't charge what he does will you be leaving money on the table? He will get old and die one day, don't you want his customers? If someone ?
Maybe he charges so much because he can't take on any more work and wants to slow the calls down to what he has time to do.

If I were to charge what he does, people would continue to go out of town. There wouldn't be money on the table to start with. He isn't over run with work, he just laid off his sign helper. His sign helper stated he is pricing himself out of the work..

Look, I am done with this particular thread...it is obvious that some are going to make excuses for what I, and many others, deem to be "overcharging", no matter what. It was really only, a "tongue in cheek" if you will, OP, to show that I am very new to the business. It obviously went awry. Again, my apologies if I offended anyone.

I see a market that needs attention, and I plan on giving it some. I have a very healthy and growing service industry business that needs no help, but my retail end does, and this fills that bill. Thanks to those with constructive replies

 

[Newsignguy]

He never had a printer. He doesn't do color printing (not large scale anyway.. he may do smaller stuff now)...he outsources his banners/wraps. He uses a 24" cutter for all his vinyl work. He does some multicolor/cuts with that.

Is 100 bucks an hour the average rate? Is it normal to charge 3 hours for a one hour job?? Maybe he charges 300 dollars an hour? Actually you might be on to something there...hmm..he did forget to kiss me another time..I helped him (his request..lol..not the reason for the additional cost!) do up 3 signs for me one time (3 words, one color, 8" tall lettering each, one word per sign on coro, longest being 36") I brought the beer, he gave me a (near) 300 dollar bill with the signs an hour later...this is when I started getting quotes first, and also my last purchase from him.


dude.. don't F'n tell me you gave the design.. "all he had to do was print it" ...and then tell me he has know printer... I don't give a flyinphuq who the hell has what... you are an idiot writing crap nobody gives a sh!+about... and mixing up everything except how cheap you wanna be... you are the dead horse... shut up if you don't want a beating... change your tune, or expect the same damn song and dance!

lmao. Constructive. good.

I should have written "cut" it...not print it..again, my newness coming through.

 

[Fitch]

"I am not out to do multi color/cut stuff..yet? I don't want to ruin reflective, or thicker vinyl."

Man you really are in the wrong place right now. I would "play" free of charge or at least just materials cost - doing only friends / community work.

I have to be honest and say that you really should think about the comments here - they are all valid.

When somebody says they only want to do single color signs - to me that's a "mechanic" that only replaces wiper blades.

As my "mechanic" I wouldn't like you to fix my brakes.

As a sign professional - I do not want this attitude / inexperience / approach ANYWHERE near my profession. Every dollar a less than competant sign maker takes away from the experienced is hurting the industry.

Should you stick with it and one day realise the harm many can do (and have done)... I for one hope you are man enough to say "hey you guys were right".

Hopefully I will be able to say "Hey you stuck with it, you made it work, you charge appropriately, and your portfolio rocks"

 

[Fitch]

Oh... and by the way.... I am damn good at my profession because I work hard at it.

YES - surprise surprise I can often do a job in one hour (that's the tips and tricks you learn after 16 years) that takes others 3 hrs to do.

Do you think I am going to charge what I do it in - or others do it in.

I am a professional signmaker but also a businessman - OF COURSE I am going to charge out for the time that others take. That's how I make $300 an hour.

Do I feel bad - NUP - I invested a lot of time in my skills and I am entitled to be rewarded for the skills I have developed by educating myself.

 

[heyskull]

Very Interesting post....
I've been in the sign business 26 years and running my own nearly 10 years.
Over the last 10 years I have worked hard sometimes too hard just too make it work.
But one thing is for sure I never wanted to be the cheapest, in fact I would rather be the more expensive option!
I have seen 4 other wannabee vinyl monkees start up and fail and another just started last month.
Good luck to you all (I sincerley mean it) but don't go all out trying to undercut my business.
You will end up damaging your own worth.

SC

 

[andy]

If I were to charge what he does, people would continue to go out of town. There wouldn't be money on the table to start with. He isn't over run with work, he just laid off his sign helper. His sign helper stated he is pricing himself out of the work..

Look, I am done with this particular thread...it is obvious that some are going to make excuses for what I, and many others, deem to be "overcharging", no matter what. It was really only, a "tongue in cheek" if you will, OP, to show that I am very new to the business. It obviously went awry. Again, my apologies if I offended anyone.

I see a market that needs attention, and I plan on giving it some. I have a very healthy and growing service industry business that needs no help, but my retail end does, and this fills that bill. Thanks to those with constructive replies

Who are you exactly? An experienced and successful sign maker who actually knows what the f*ck they are talking about or just another dumbass who thinks they're going to set the world a light with their cheap cutter and cut throat prices.

In 1988 when I first started in this business you could make a very comfortable living just from cutting vinyl graphics.... that market is pretty much dead now, beaten to death by waves of idiots who think that slashing prices is the route to market share and profits.

I look around me and some of the best local sign shops, shops which knew what to do and what to charge are gone.... replaced by an army of one man garage based shops who struggle to earn even a basic income. The whole vinyl business is less than 25 years old and it's already grown, peaked and is now in steady decline.

Spend all your time and lots of money setting up an alternative to your "overcharging" rival and I will tell you exactly what will happen.... someone with your mindset will look at YOU and decide you are the robbing b@stard... they'll set up their own alternative to your "overcharging" operation and so the cycle starts over. In the end you're all chasing work which is economic sewage... none of you can make a living from the market but you're hamsters on a wheel... constantly running harder just to stand still financially.

If you don't believe me then that's fine... like HeySkull I've been in this trade for a very long time... I've seen this downward spiral in action for more years than I care to remember.

 

[Jillbeans]

My feelings, after reading your blathering, is that the "expensive" local sign guy probably charged you so much due to what I call "the @sshole factor".
It's an automatic 50% mark up I do when I smell a client who's a real PITA.
They either pay that or I happily send them on their way.
So your file was "ready to print" you say?
Just push a button and puke it out?
I call that the "graphic designer factor".
It's when someone gives you a file which they assume is ready to go, but usually takes a few hours of professional clean up to make it anywhere useable in the real world of sign making.
Am I the most expensive sign shop locally?
Probably.
What I sell is an image, effective advertising that you can read.
My layouts look good because I have been doing this for 25 years.
Are you competition to me?
No.
I'd happily send other price-only potential clients to a hack like you.
You come into a forum of sign professionals and start making a bunch of contradictory self-serving statements.
I don't expect you'll get much help here, even if you are a premium member already.
I can see your asking a lot of price questions.
I for one won't be answering them, since you seem to know it all in advance anyway, even if you say you don't even know what software is.
Like I'd really want to buy a sign from one of "those guys".

 

[wildside]

I don't know anyone, in their right mind, that is going to pay double what every other person/shop is charging for virtually the exact same product.

no sign company sells the "exact same product".

Shops get different material prices from different vendors, some get better bulk pricing for massive volumes.

Gouging is a relative term of course, i have noticed that most people that complain about price are ones who have never owned a business, you claim you do, and is fine, but you also admit it is in a failing industry.

You can sell cheap signs and not "gouge" anyone and move right along. When your $400 cutter breaks down, you will need a loan to replace it. The sign industry is expensive as alot of industries are, technology constantly changes and tough to keep up sometimes. You have never once mentioned "design", curious as to why? typing letters out and sticking them to flimsy materials and sticking them in a yard is not a sign

i couldn't imagine thinking "ya know, that car lot is gouging me, i think i am just gonna just buy my own metal bender and just build my own cars, but i will be filling a nitch since everyone thinks he is so overpriced" ............

 

[R08]

no sign company sells the "exact same product".

.............typing letters out and sticking them to flimsy materials and sticking them in a yard is not a sign
............

Ok, we can call it something else, but unfortunatly it has a market share and we better learn to deal with it.

Like it or not there are those who will get into the sign business to do the "cheap" stuff. And there are those out there who want crap on coro.

It's our job to show what we have to offer is better and worth more.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Who are you exactly?

Now that I think about it, I'm wondering the same thing. The things that the OP is posting are many of the stereotypical buttons that get pushed all lumped into one tread that appears to have been conceived to stir up trouble.

Now I could be wrong and I truly want to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, but I can't help but have my suspicions. And the name "newsignguy" is extra suspicious.

So newsignguy, are you an existing sign person just having fun at everyone elses' expense, or are you in fact a new sign guy?

 

[Newsignguy]

You guys certainly have the wrong idea of me, admitedly, and I have said it several times, I have approached this incorrectly and have worded some things wrong. I will address some of it...

My feelings, after reading your blathering, is that the "expensive" local sign guy probably charged you so much due to what I call "the @sshole factor". You didn't really read my blathering, because if you did, you would know this person was a friend of mine
It's an automatic 50% mark up I do when I smell a client who's a real PITA.
They either pay that or I happily send them on their way.
So your file was "ready to print" you say?
Just push a button and puke it out?
I call that the "graphic designer factor".
It's when someone gives you a file which they assume is ready to go, but usually takes a few hours of professional clean up to make it anywhere useable in the real world of sign making. again you didn't read, the other shop was able to "cut" (won't make that mistake again) it immediately..the guy that helped me do the design, does layout for lots of these, and at the time, did some for the expensive guy as well.
Am I the most expensive sign shop locally?
Probably.
What I sell is an image, effective advertising that you can read.
My layouts look good because I have been doing this for 25 years.
Are you competition to me?
No.
I'd happily send other price-only potential clients to a hack like you.
You come into a forum of sign professionals and start making a bunch of contradictory self-serving statements.
I don't expect you'll get much help here, even if you are a premium member already.
I can see your asking a lot of price questions.I am not asking price questions for myself..price was only brought when discussing the expensive guy
I for one won't be answering them, since you seem to know it all in advance anyway, even if you say you don't even know what software is.
Like I'd really want to buy a sign from one of "those guys".

no sign company sells the "exact same product".

Shops get different material prices from different vendors, some get better bulk pricing for massive volumes. hence the term virtually

Gouging is a relative term of course, i have noticed that most people that complain about price are ones who have never owned a business, you claim you do, and is fine, but you also admit it is in a failing industry. yes, the forest industry around here is failing, logging contractors have gone out of business or town, and the mills have shut down..so, I am diversifying the retail/service store. My other service company is flourishing quite well, and had our biggest year of growth.

You can sell cheap signs and not "gouge" anyone and move right along. When your $400 cutter breaks down, you will need a loan to replace it. The sign industry is expensive as alot of industries are, technology constantly changes and tough to keep up sometimes. You have never once mentioned "design", curious as to why? typing letters out and sticking them to flimsy materials and sticking them in a yard is not a sign This is very valid, I haven't mentioned design, because I haven't yet learned to design well enough to call it design. I want to start small, learn how to put stickers on junk for people that want it, before I attempt projects that require experience. I have a plan in place to put money aside for a better machine...and if it is needed, I will just go buy one...but I want to get a better understanding of the industry before I do so.
i couldn't imagine thinking "ya know, that car lot is gouging me, i think i am just gonna just buy my own metal bender and just build my own cars, but i will be filling a nitch since everyone thinks he is so overpriced" good analogy, but would you go the carlot next door and pay twice as much for the same vehicle, but in a different color with a few more, or less, miles ?

I am off for a bit, gf has awoken again, and it is time to have another baby

thanks again to all,

 

[Jillbeans]

I am not asking price questions for myself

...but you will be soon.
How much for a set of magnetics?
How much for Peeing Calvin stickers?
How much for a coro yard sign?
You know, the basic "buy a career in signs" type questions.
Carry on.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

Crap! I had my reply all typed, hit submit and it got deleted! Arghh!

There are times when everyone prices a job higher than normal hoping NOT to get it, but then if we do, it'll be worth it. I've read about that very thing here. The recent stick people thread comes to mind. So maybe the "overpriced" guy doesn't like doing door lettering and prices it high. I haven't read every word of this thread so I might've miss some important tidbit. Just sayin'...