Oracal says....Laminate reflective vinyl

[Gino]

:Oops:... double post..............:Big Laugh

 

[Gino]

Ours are happening on mostly Police cruisers and not only at the hood area where a mechanic would hang over. It's rear fenders, truck lids.... top & side, door panels high on the doors and low on the doors. Right above the front wheel wells, front and rear bumpers. There is no rhyme or reason as to where on any given cruiser or ambulance vs. some have it and some don't. The older the cruiser, not much of anything. It's all on the later cruisers. It has nothing to do with age or length of time on any vehicles, some mechanic leaning on it or cleaning process because there is nothing consistent with any wear & tear. It's sporadic. This alone tells me, it's the media itself. That is the only common denominator in the whole equation. Now that I have someone else with pictures identical to mine in another part of the country who also knows what they're doing in the industry..... only leads me to believe if we can find a few more folks with the same problem, we're gonna get results..... and I ain't talking a free roll of crap. I mean R E A L results.


Okay, here goes.................

 

[DesireeM]

Ours are happening on mostly Police cruisers and not only at the hood area where a mechanic would hang over. It's rear fenders, truck lids.... top & side, door panels high on the doors and low on the doors. Right above the front wheel wells, front and rear bumpers. There is no rhyme or reason as to where on any given cruiser or ambulance vs. some have it and some don't. The older the cruiser, not much of anything. It's all on the later cruisers. It has nothing to do with age or length of time on any vehicles, some mechanic leaning on it or cleaning process because there is nothing consistent with any wear & tear. It's sporadic. This alone tells me, it's the media itself. That is the only common denominator in the whole equation. Now that I have someone else with pictures identical to mine in another part of the country who also knows what they're doing in the industry..... only leads me to believe if we can find a few more folks with the same problem, we're gonna get results..... and I ain't talking a free roll of crap. I mean R E A L results.


Okay, here goes.................

Wow! That is so similar to our issue. Same sporadic wear. Everyone keeps trying to use the wear patterns as clues but like you said it's all over the vehicle and random. I'll see if my customer can send me more photos for comparison.

My supplier has suggested a different brand of reflective vinyl which I'm going to start using but I've told them I'm not done with Oracal. At the very least I'd like to see that they've changed their product specs to reflect the crap about lamination (assuming the rep wasn't just lying, which I'm certain he was).
That or they need to look into this further and give us a REAL reason this is happening and maybe realize that there could be deficiencies in their manufacturing process.

 

[Gino]

Wow! That is so similar to our issue. Same sporadic wear. Everyone keeps trying to use the wear patterns as clues but like you said it's all over the vehicle and random. I'll see if my customer can send me more photos for comparison.

My supplier has suggested a different brand of reflective vinyl which I'm going to start using but I've told them I'm not done with Oracal. At the very least I'd like to see that they've changed their product specs to reflect the crap about lamination (assuming the rep wasn't just lying, which I'm certain he was).
That or they need to look into this further and give us a REAL reason this is happening and maybe realize that there could be deficiencies in their manufacturing process.

To me, getting force-fed nonsense is worse than their not admitting to the problem at hand. PRODUCT FAILURE. Then on top of that, sending you little peace-offerings to make you you feel satisfied is pathetic. Please don't give in and accept any of their trinkets. Let's grow this thing and put a stop to the problem and not sooth the symptoms. This product was/has always been the recommended media for this use and now they want us to change to a more expensive product ?? NO !! That's wrong and unethical. I've always been a great OraCal customer and I still believe in them. They need to figure this out, instead of sweeping it under the rug as was done years ago in another vinyl failure fiasco which was also blamed as application failure. We have practice and knowledge on our side this time and if a company wants to protect it's reputation, let's make this thing happen..... the right way.

​

 

[DesireeM]

I just got off the phone with that same sales rep I spoke to originally and I have to say it was pretty satisfying to hear him say "I was wrong".
He has informed me that a tech at Oracal reviewed my claim and the photos and told him that he was wrong about the need for lamination (no kidding?!) The tech also said that he's seen this type of thing before in the white reflective vinyl and that it is, in fact...drumroll......a product failure!

They've approved for him to compensate me for time and material. He tried to get me to agree to an amount on the phone but I told him I'd assess the scope of it and get back to him by email. He didn't seem to like that but I don't care. I need time to make sure I get numbers that are accurate and fair for both of us.

The key here is that he said it's something they've seen before. They are aware that they have isolated batches of product out there that may be damaged and are willing to replace it + labor. That's good news. Gino - you should be able to use my case to get further with Oracal for the product failure you have.You now have precedent - which means they've acknowledged the problem exists. They can't beat around the bush anymore.

I'm pretty sure I deal with Oracal's Canadian division however I can give you names if it helps you get further with your claim.

 

[Gino]

........... I'll be in touch.

 

[Malkin]

Great news!

I'm wondering if the failure is heat related (or a failure to resist heat damage) since they all seem to be on darker backgrounds which would have more of a heat buildup.

I have seen similar degradation with Avery reflectives after a number of years also.

 

[AceSignsOnline]

My first thought was a failure due to wet application. But after seeing those other photos, I'm baffled. I sure hope it works out for you all. Please keep us posted.

 

[Gino]

Great news!

I'm wondering if the failure is heat related (or a failure to resist heat damage) since they all seem to be on darker backgrounds which would have more of a heat buildup.

I have seen similar degradation with Avery reflectives after a number of years also.

Rarely do we put white reflective on light backgrounds, so I sure hope that isn't something they will say. However, we have had things printed on white reflective and then placed on light to white backgrounds and had some failures there, also. So, I don't think that avenue will work too successfully.

 

[player]

Rarely do we put white reflective on light backgrounds, so I sure hope that isn't something they will say. However, we have had things printed on white reflective and then placed on light to white backgrounds and had some failures there, also. So, I don't think that avenue will work too successfully.

When you printed and placed on the light background and had failures, did you laminate? I am wondering if the reflective failed even it it was laminated.

 

[MikePro]

:signs101:
comeon Oracal, what the heck?!? just when I thought I could trust another brand besides 3M, they go and pull this?
thank you so very much for this thread ...and, unfortunately, this giant pit that's growing in my stomach.

I've just recently cut/weeded/masked two entire rolls of 48" Oracal 5600, and another entire roll-&-a-half of printed/laminated, ready to apply to hundreds of panels being painted as i'm typing this... dare I wait for the failure? noooo way!

gathering all my info/invoices and getting on the horn with my sales rep. asap., before I potentially dig this hole even deeper...

 

[Gino]

When you printed and placed on the light background and had failures, did you laminate? I am wondering if the reflective failed even it it was laminated.

Some were laminated and some were not. The ones in this case were not laminated for these cars, so essentially, it was die-cut white reflective vinyl with an added Eco-Sol ink layer on top. The printed reflective ones were on other vehicle and so far we haven't heard any repercussions, but who knows ?? So, as of this moment, your question will still go unanswered.

 

[Stanton]

Material missing in the glass bead/goo layer.

They are blasting the graphic with heat and pressure.

Otherwise the material would not migrate.

There is no bubble. No out-gas.
Your customer is wrong.

Tell your customer to **** off.

 

[Stanton]

Great advice.

I've got some for you....

:Big Laugh


I am going on a long range fishing trip week after next.



I made my money, I am 52 and retired. Got a sh^t load of $$$ in the bank.

Don't really care about also rands. You.


I walk 5 short blocks to the ocean to surf fish almost every day.

I take a five day boat trip down south of San Diego a couple of times a year.
12 day boat trip when fishing looks good.

Once upon a time I lived day to day. Like you do now.

Success is hard to explain. Fun to enjoy.

Feel free to send me a PM. I love to share how to.


-Glenn

 

[Stanton]

You had me at fishing.

While we're derailing this thread - I'm going to Big Sur for a wedding this summer. Pretty excited, will be my first visit to Cali.

Thread hijack is the reason Al Gore invented the internet :Big Laugh

Let's PM. ???




-Glenn

 

[player]

While you guys are out fishing all your reflective jobs are failing prematurely.

 

[Stanton]

While you guys are out fishing all your reflective jobs are failing prematurely.

They 'fail' as-is and on time.



Ever buy a new car?

Don't buy the undercoating or the Scotch Guard.

Up's and Extras's are so armature sales tactics.


80% of signs outlast the joint that purchased them.



This is a business.

 

[player]

I am in the business of making high quality, well designed, long lasting, durable signs.

 

[Stanton]

I am in the business of making high quality, well designed, long lasting, durable signs.

wow, put that in your brochure.











:Big Laugh












.

 

[player]

What brochure?


I only advertise on taxi cabs with white reflective graphics.

 

[GAC05]

I called Dan my local N.Glantz manager and talked to him about it- laminating is new to him too. He is going to a branch managers meeting Monday
and they will have Oracal (and specifically a reflective Oracal person) there and he will get the straight poop. Gene

A lot of good information in this thread. I hope Oracal steps up and does the right thing.
I'm really interested in what the reflective Oracal person had to say.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[Stanton]

What brochure?


I only advertise on taxi cabs with white reflective graphics.

:Big Laugh


I love professionals.