SignManiac
New Member
I personally would like to see all ugly signs banned. We need a ugly sign moderator. But I guess that is subjective too.
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saying goodbye
- Thread starter John Butto
- Start date
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Thank you Border and Royster. I support Bradster941's decisions in both the posts he removed. In the past week we have had to remove the NHB forums, turn on language filtering, and remove a couple of offensive to some posts. At no time did I or our other admins do anything beyond that.
I think most of you know me well enough to realize I place a very high value on freedom of speech and manage Signs 101 with as light a hand as possible. But that freedom of speech doesn't include joke signs singling out members of certain religions for ridicule. It doesn't include links to parody videos that use simulated male masturbation as the focus of the humor. It doesn't include the right for a few members to repeatedly post gutter language in our open forums where Google and other search bots catalog everything daily as well as cost us the participation of some pretty talented people because they don't want to be exposed to that type of thing.
I didn't see John Butto's sketch but I believe Bradster941 when he tells me it was offensive. Brad looks out for Signs 101 in lots of commendable ways. But the bottom line is that with NHB gone, Signs 101 is strictly PG rated in terms of language, images, links and content. We owe that to our members who prefer it that way, to our merchants and advertisers who need for it to be that way, and for Signs 101 to continue to be viable for all our members.
I think most of you know me well enough to realize I place a very high value on freedom of speech and manage Signs 101 with as light a hand as possible. But that freedom of speech doesn't include joke signs singling out members of certain religions for ridicule. It doesn't include links to parody videos that use simulated male masturbation as the focus of the humor. It doesn't include the right for a few members to repeatedly post gutter language in our open forums where Google and other search bots catalog everything daily as well as cost us the participation of some pretty talented people because they don't want to be exposed to that type of thing.
I didn't see John Butto's sketch but I believe Bradster941 when he tells me it was offensive. Brad looks out for Signs 101 in lots of commendable ways. But the bottom line is that with NHB gone, Signs 101 is strictly PG rated in terms of language, images, links and content. We owe that to our members who prefer it that way, to our merchants and advertisers who need for it to be that way, and for Signs 101 to continue to be viable for all our members.
shakey0818
New Member
I hate to see anyone go over something like that.I think the decision was right and the recent changes here are very good ones.I do miss the NHB section.I got some good laughs there goofing on people and their non sign related drama but i think it was going to far and could see the site taking a turn for the worse.Thanks Fred and the signs 101 team for continuing to try to keep this a classier professional place for sign makers to share their expertise.
ProWraps
New Member
you better delete the after hours forum. censorship must be enforced in its entirety or its perception as discrimination will be absolute.
i didnt see the drawing, but due to bradsters great explanation i wish i had!
roasted butt corn. man i sure hope they offer that at the state fair this year. sure beats the **** out of the deep fryed twinkies and possum on a stick.
keep fighting the good fight butto. as much as you pissed me off, you impressed me 10 fold with your talent. one less flavor to add to the pot
grafixemporium
New Member
Hmmm Bradster strikes again. Having been the victim of one of his swollen headed power trips, I understand your frustrations John. Bottom line is, there is a right way and a wrong way to handle situations like these. I disappeared from the forums for a while after receiving a threatening "infraction" from Bradster for what I feel was normal forums activity. However, upon reflecting I decided there are a lot of great people here. Far more good to outweigh the Bradsters. Instead of vacating the forums completely, I protest financially and have not renewed my paid membership. I will not renew it until the "infraction" reminder is wiped from my account. It is still there for me to see each time I login to S101.
SignosaurusRex
Active Member
Shakey, I have to agree with what you just said. I had a lengthy post prepared but decided "less was better"!
Fred, as Signs101 transforms ......returning to a more professional site, I hope that the moderators exercise moderation and do not push the site too far to the extreme opposite of what it has been recently in an attempt to get back to where it once was. Unfortunately...(I think it was John Lennon who said)...."You can't successfully reheat Souffle".
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
The infraction you were given serves two purposes. One was to provide something that would get your attention that the rudeness you posted towards another member was just that and that we wanted you to know how we felt about it. In fairness, I will say the the OP's post was certainly worthy of being called out. Two was to provide other admins a record of the event should you continue to post in that manner. Nothing more - nothing less.
You'll notice that nothing further was done even though you responded with more rudeness and continue to do so. What I'd much rather have happen than to receive your financial support would be for you to leave the past behind and focus on being a helpful participate in this community.
ProWraps
New Member
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Brian I don't think there's any foundation for your concerns. Signs 101 isn't transforming. NHB is gone because a few members, within its stated rules, cost us the participation of some other members I would have liked to still be active here. It had it's advantages and disadvantages, but it had reached a point where I felt there was too high a price to pay to keep it.
The language filtering is a whole other matter. Bad language posting was turning up in our open forums on a daily basis. The only reason filtering wasn't turned on was the existence of the NHB and the fact that such filtering is global. I was instead, dealing with posts containing offensive language manually which was costing me more time than I was happy to continue to give. So now it is simply automatic and doesn't cost me any time.
I don't think removing the NHB and automatically filtering out offensive language will in any way diminish the value of Signs 101. Neither do I think allowing offensive links, images etc. will do anything except diminish the value of Signs 101. What has happened here is that the OP has expressed his disagreement with an admin's take on a particular image as being suitable for an open forum. His view is that "you cannot censor art in any form." Our view is that we do wish for members to unexpectedly have offensive images placed in their reading path without warning. And we have always reserved the right to have the final say in all matters affecting Signs 101.
I guess that's the risk I run but if allowing objectionable content is what keeps Signs 101 interesting then, in the words of Ricky Nelson, "I'd rather drive a truck."
But what we're talking about is that the NHB is gone which had less than 550 members even subscribing to it and less than half that visiting or participating. All the rest that has been talked about in this thread were existing rules anyway. Offensive language or content was never permitted in our open forums.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
And Chris ... you don't even seem to realize that those two quotes are in response to two completely different events. The sketch refers to John Butto's complaint of censorship. The second was in response to a post made by grafixemporium about a post he made over a year ago for which he received a formal infraction notice.
But since you had to do it, I will point out that you are the primary reason I turned on the language filtering feature. I was losing to much time editing your posts and was incredibly tired of receiving your apologetic PMs about it.
ProWraps
New Member
i mean i am all for saving face, but i just went through all my PM's to you and uhhh. really? maybe there is something im missing. maybe i missed one post where you slapped my wrist and i apologized. but eh. um. really? i dont even see that. not saying its not there. but. maybe it is and your forum isnt working correctly and its not showing in my out box. let alone a bunch of them, cause i dont see them either. hmm. strange. please forward them to me. im very curious. VERY curious.
i went back to my first PM from you at 9-30-2009. and my first outbox message from the same day.
im curious.
but i am glad you focused on my use of the word **** to use your filter. but i did really enjoy reading it in many other posts that werent by me.
please forward me the the PMs to my inbox of my PROFUSE appologies to you for my language.
ProWraps
New Member
NO WAIT! i found it. im guilty. man im a tool. i did send you ONE PM that was this on 2-27-2001
im so sorry fred. i guess i was wrong. my blatant and profuse single apology for my bad language clearly drove you over the edge.
i can CLEARLY see how my once apology 8 months ago would be exactly what you meant about the one time, yet in your eyes repeated offence.
then again perhaps on my old account from 2007 i repeatedly apologized for my indescretions. i dont know, i cant see those in my outbox.
im so sorry fred. i guess i was wrong. my blatant and profuse single apology for my bad language clearly drove you over the edge.
i can CLEARLY see how my once apology 8 months ago would be exactly what you meant about the one time, yet in your eyes repeated offence.
then again perhaps on my old account from 2007 i repeatedly apologized for my indescretions. i dont know, i cant see those in my outbox.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
I'll plead guilty to exaggeration on the number of PMs. The rest stands. You use a lot of objectionable language in your posts and language filtering was turned on primarily because of your posts.
GAC05
Quit buggin' me
"But what we're talking about is that the NHB is gone which had less than 550 members even subscribing to it and less than half that visiting or participating."
Fred I don't have the stats (or the math skills) but I am willing to wager the views/replies taken as a whole in the NHB were above average compared to the open forums, even given the requirement to opt-in before one could even see what was going on. I think the level of interest was there.
Knowing pretty much what the main line would be I'd still like to hear OP's take on Herman Cain's 999 or Colin's latest poke at the faithful or even Randy's lengthy posts on wars waged on behalf of large corporations.
There are some incredibly interesting articles over on Al Jazeera that are now off the table for discussion here due to political/religious ties.
All these issues can be found in overabundance all over the net but this is the place I used to be able to log into and see what people in the sign business had to say.
This is coming from an end user's perspective, not getting all the pm's, emails & phone calls - not having to deal with the extra work involved in it keeping the train on the right track.
They are gone, I will miss them - will not cry over their loss (at least publicly).....
wayne k
guam usa
Fred I don't have the stats (or the math skills) but I am willing to wager the views/replies taken as a whole in the NHB were above average compared to the open forums, even given the requirement to opt-in before one could even see what was going on. I think the level of interest was there.
Knowing pretty much what the main line would be I'd still like to hear OP's take on Herman Cain's 999 or Colin's latest poke at the faithful or even Randy's lengthy posts on wars waged on behalf of large corporations.
There are some incredibly interesting articles over on Al Jazeera that are now off the table for discussion here due to political/religious ties.
All these issues can be found in overabundance all over the net but this is the place I used to be able to log into and see what people in the sign business had to say.
This is coming from an end user's perspective, not getting all the pm's, emails & phone calls - not having to deal with the extra work involved in it keeping the train on the right track.
They are gone, I will miss them - will not cry over their loss (at least publicly).....
wayne k
guam usa
ProWraps
New Member
“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear as it is - infinite” william blake.
fred opened the door. its a sad day when he closed it. bottom line, is that he has to do what is best for US. we trust our leader and we respect the hell out of him. banter above aside, i trust his judgement and direction. i only know that going forward it will be nothing but the best for us.
i miss butto and hope he joins the "storm out and come back" party. im not only a card carrying member, im the president.
fred, thanks for all that you do. seriously. i know the **** it entails. i AM the **** it entails. butto, please come back.
ps dude. YOU HAVE TO COME BACK. i was so waiting to slam the **** out of you and call you john butthole you have no ****ing idea.
john butthole, get back here please.
fred opened the door. its a sad day when he closed it. bottom line, is that he has to do what is best for US. we trust our leader and we respect the hell out of him. banter above aside, i trust his judgement and direction. i only know that going forward it will be nothing but the best for us.
i miss butto and hope he joins the "storm out and come back" party. im not only a card carrying member, im the president.
fred, thanks for all that you do. seriously. i know the **** it entails. i AM the **** it entails. butto, please come back.
ps dude. YOU HAVE TO COME BACK. i was so waiting to slam the **** out of you and call you john butthole you have no ****ing idea.
john butthole, get back here please.
Dave Drane
New Member
I am so sad to see a very helpful and true artist have to leave this way. As I said earlier this week, I sincerley hope that we are not going down the "Letterville" road where one has to state before posting that it will be OT (off topic) for those not in the know. I must admit that I also have been astounded at some language here from trusted people but i think we all need to take a spoon full of cement and harden up. I like the Sign Posts as much as I enjoy the "other" stuff.
Pat Whatley
New Member
Ahhhh....I've always loved that excuse. That means that if I show up at your house, drop my drawers and crap on your front porch you can't stop me because the act is performance art and the final product is my creation.
John, I think you need to pull the corn cob out of your butt and get over it.
Dave Drane
New Member
Pretty poor comparison Pat! I think you need to get over it. We are supposedly all adults.