mnapuran
New Member
Not interested in dealing with 3M or their products
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Screw you 3M.
- Thread starter HulkSmash
- Start date
- Status
Not interested in dealing with 3M or their products
SightLine
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The happy Friday price they had today was not all that special...... actually a bit high even.
Always didnt like 3M, and now Im happy to see that there "powerful" name is finally falling. So many customers ask for 3M...because its the only thing they know. Once I explain to them how the other companies provide a superior product JUST TO COMPETE WITH THE 3M NAME.....they start to understand.
The little bit of 3M product that I have used over the last couple years was crap....every single roll of ij35 came NOT WRAPPED IN PLASTIC!!! Then 3m gives me the run-a-round and could not give me a straight answer....on weather or not the product is suppose to be wrapped in plastic during manufacturing!? Crazy, and so happy I have Avery & Oracal.
And, many of you have negative views about Avery....but to assure everyone here, their wrapping products are TOP NOTCH, especially with their new optically clear laminate (standard now).....and their customer service is excellent (sent me an entire roll of black/metallic wrapping material for free.......just because I gave them a compliment on their product....OVER crappy 3M). Seems that 3M wont eve replace shorted rolls to some of their large buyers here on this forum!!
3M: You suck, and I will now be going out of my way to avoid any of your products I possibly can.
Avery & Oracal: You rock, best products available and customer service that matches.
The little bit of 3M product that I have used over the last couple years was crap....every single roll of ij35 came NOT WRAPPED IN PLASTIC!!! Then 3m gives me the run-a-round and could not give me a straight answer....on weather or not the product is suppose to be wrapped in plastic during manufacturing!? Crazy, and so happy I have Avery & Oracal.
And, many of you have negative views about Avery....but to assure everyone here, their wrapping products are TOP NOTCH, especially with their new optically clear laminate (standard now).....and their customer service is excellent (sent me an entire roll of black/metallic wrapping material for free.......just because I gave them a compliment on their product....OVER crappy 3M). Seems that 3M wont eve replace shorted rolls to some of their large buyers here on this forum!!
3M: You suck, and I will now be going out of my way to avoid any of your products I possibly can.
Avery & Oracal: You rock, best products available and customer service that matches.
JoshLoring
New Member
?? Chris- move to the 3751 train. You will install faster then your already superhuman self can.
Garmen says... Oracal is straight ahead.
publicsafetydirect
New Member
samples...
Call your local Avery dealer and express your interest in MPI. I was an oracal guy till I gave Avery's MPI 1005 EZ RS with the DOL 1060 overlam a shot and was sold immediately.
The consistency and quality of the MPI is always spot on and costs considerably less than 3M.
I even called my Avery dealer about their supreme wrapping film and 3 days later I had two 5yd rolls of 60" supreme wrapping film shipped right to my shop directly from Avery at no cost to me.
Call your local Avery dealer and express your interest in MPI. I was an oracal guy till I gave Avery's MPI 1005 EZ RS with the DOL 1060 overlam a shot and was sold immediately.
The consistency and quality of the MPI is always spot on and costs considerably less than 3M.
I even called my Avery dealer about their supreme wrapping film and 3 days later I had two 5yd rolls of 60" supreme wrapping film shipped right to my shop directly from Avery at no cost to me.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Three Posts Removed
Chris I've just removed three of your recent posts due to your infecting them with so much foul language. You are welcome to repost if you can do so without the foul language. You can make me out to be the bad guy here but your choice of words was decidedly over the line and isn't going to be tolerated.
Chris I've just removed three of your recent posts due to your infecting them with so much foul language. You are welcome to repost if you can do so without the foul language. You can make me out to be the bad guy here but your choice of words was decidedly over the line and isn't going to be tolerated.
J
john1
Guest
This is a never ending thread lol
HulkSmash
New Member
I'll summarize Prowraps post that got removed because of "Profanity"
Pretty much he didn't care who's printing, and who you contract to install - you, 3M, Are in the business of selling wraps. No matter what excuse you give, or how you do it, in the end you market,and sell wraps via your original wraps program. This has to stop...
He said he's been a loyal customer even through all your flawed and contaminated vinyls. He's done spending half a mil a year on 3M. Your 3M rep keeps trying to contact him, but he just hangs up on them..
in anycase.. i think he described it pretty well.
Pretty much he didn't care who's printing, and who you contract to install - you, 3M, Are in the business of selling wraps. No matter what excuse you give, or how you do it, in the end you market,and sell wraps via your original wraps program. This has to stop...
He said he's been a loyal customer even through all your flawed and contaminated vinyls. He's done spending half a mil a year on 3M. Your 3M rep keeps trying to contact him, but he just hangs up on them..
in anycase.. i think he described it pretty well.
HulkSmash
New Member
Yes i did get a call. Since they have so many concerned people about their program, they're in the process of trying to figure out a program where they are not involved in the bidding process of the wraps...
I suggested that if they insist on leaving their program live, allow the local shops around to bid on the jobs, and they have no say what so ever in the pricing of it. This way we actually MEET our customers and get the opportunity to have repeat business and not compete against out supplier.
ForgeInc
New Member
So - this is a good thing, yes?
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
I'm relying on your negotiations skills here Colorado... to save me allot of work if nothing else. You do have a loading dock at your facility correct?
HulkSmash
New Member
If they give up being in the business of wraps, then yes.
J
john1
Guest
Outta my Oracal samples, Fresh rolls of media coming tomorrow! Woot.
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
Everything has to start somewhere.
If 3M truly wants to create a program that would increase the sell of 3M vehicle graphics directly from dealerships across the United States w/o damaging their relationship with sign shops...
Step 1: Close down OW
This division will end up costing you local sign shops as customers. You do not need OW to work with dealerships. I think it only makes things more complicated for the vehicle customer and the dealership. What you need is a strong network of designers, printers and installers. All of this can be achieved using regional sign shops surrounding dealerships. The current website needs to show that the customers can support their local / regional companies and still get financing on the graphics. This would have a much larger impact for fleet sales that want a regional sign shop to handle their projects.
Step 2: Create a true network of regional sign shops within each Dealership Designated Marketing Area.
- Printing: List the companies that pass the 3M standards for printing. (Although I think the site should show certified 3M printing companies and non-certified printing companies within the region of the dealership on the project.) Create a mail-in submission for samples to test print quality. Then if you really want to ensure that the quality can be duplicated, do spot checks at the shop. This would benefit 3M in multiple ways with sign companies (New Product Launch & Proper 3M Profiling) You could even charge for a fee to have your shop inspected to get on the list. It would also be nice to see printer type options as well such as Solvent Printers, ECO-Solvent Printers and Latex Printers.
- Designing: List of companies that have qualified designers with preset fees & deadlines. Again this could be accomplished by submission and could be processed over the internet completely.
- Installing: List of companies that have been trained and certified by 3M for wrap installations. (Although I think the site should show certified 3M installers and non-certified installers within the region of the dealership on the project.) If you are only going to allow 3M certified installers to participate in the program, then utilize the dealerships and lower the cost of the certified programs. Every dealership has plenty of bay space for a weekend installation program that could be coordinated and open to every local / regional sign shop. You could even create new Co-Op branding campaigns with the dealerships to brand the 3M logo on dealership vehicles that would be used for the certification.
Step 3: Don't lower the value of wraps!
This digital printing market already has plenty of rough days ahead due to modern technology with digital signage. Make sure the program pays fair market rates for designing, printing and installing.
Step 4: Get your fingers out of the cookie jar!
You do not need to profit on the project outside of the sale of the 3M vinyl for the project. You are our supplier and you claim not to be our competition. Prove it... Allow the sign companies to design, print and install the graphics and make all the profits aside of what we currently are paying for the 3M wrap vinyl medias. Let us build a relationship with the clients and not be kept in the dark on the sale. The current OW website should be nothing more than a directory of sign shops within the region of the dealership that can provide them with services that ONLY USE 3M products for every project.
The site should have up front pricing options from regional sign shops on all processes of the project. Let the customer decide who they want to work with and rate their experience after the project has been completed. The site should have contact information for every sign shop that sales 3M products within that region. If a sign company is getting bad reviews and doing damage to the program, remove them from the listings.
3M should be trying to work with the local and regional sign shops around with dealership. This will end up providing the vehicle customer a better product and experience. OW is only going to damage the reputation of 3M with sign shops. This will leave the door open for your competitors to create a better network that utilizes sign shops and helps GET THEM WORK and not take it away from them! The current contracts you have with the major manufactures are not ironclad in the sense that you have no chance to lose them in the future.
Some of the things mentioned above are currently being executed within what you claim the OW program provides. But I am not buying most of it and see you as a competitor right now. I will slowly get my clients to use different brands of vehicle graphics. I am not alone and while you may think this is just some ranting in a forum, I don't think you fully realize the ramifications in the future, if the OW program stays on course.
I understand that its not as easy as the stated above... But I am not the person in charge that thought it would be a good idea to buyout OW and expand the program so that 3M increases their profits on vehicle graphics at the expense of local and regional sign companies. You guys did that... Now you need to fix it and make things right! You need to keep making profits on 3M products from the sign shops, not from selling directly to the client! That is our job and there is no gray area to it!!!
Step 1: Close down OW
This division will end up costing you local sign shops as customers. You do not need OW to work with dealerships. I think it only makes things more complicated for the vehicle customer and the dealership. What you need is a strong network of designers, printers and installers. All of this can be achieved using regional sign shops surrounding dealerships. The current website needs to show that the customers can support their local / regional companies and still get financing on the graphics. This would have a much larger impact for fleet sales that want a regional sign shop to handle their projects.
Step 2: Create a true network of regional sign shops within each Dealership Designated Marketing Area.
- Printing: List the companies that pass the 3M standards for printing. (Although I think the site should show certified 3M printing companies and non-certified printing companies within the region of the dealership on the project.) Create a mail-in submission for samples to test print quality. Then if you really want to ensure that the quality can be duplicated, do spot checks at the shop. This would benefit 3M in multiple ways with sign companies (New Product Launch & Proper 3M Profiling) You could even charge for a fee to have your shop inspected to get on the list. It would also be nice to see printer type options as well such as Solvent Printers, ECO-Solvent Printers and Latex Printers.
- Designing: List of companies that have qualified designers with preset fees & deadlines. Again this could be accomplished by submission and could be processed over the internet completely.
- Installing: List of companies that have been trained and certified by 3M for wrap installations. (Although I think the site should show certified 3M installers and non-certified installers within the region of the dealership on the project.) If you are only going to allow 3M certified installers to participate in the program, then utilize the dealerships and lower the cost of the certified programs. Every dealership has plenty of bay space for a weekend installation program that could be coordinated and open to every local / regional sign shop. You could even create new Co-Op branding campaigns with the dealerships to brand the 3M logo on dealership vehicles that would be used for the certification.
Step 3: Don't lower the value of wraps!
This digital printing market already has plenty of rough days ahead due to modern technology with digital signage. Make sure the program pays fair market rates for designing, printing and installing.
Step 4: Get your fingers out of the cookie jar!
You do not need to profit on the project outside of the sale of the 3M vinyl for the project. You are our supplier and you claim not to be our competition. Prove it... Allow the sign companies to design, print and install the graphics and make all the profits aside of what we currently are paying for the 3M wrap vinyl medias. Let us build a relationship with the clients and not be kept in the dark on the sale. The current OW website should be nothing more than a directory of sign shops within the region of the dealership that can provide them with services that ONLY USE 3M products for every project.
The site should have up front pricing options from regional sign shops on all processes of the project. Let the customer decide who they want to work with and rate their experience after the project has been completed. The site should have contact information for every sign shop that sales 3M products within that region. If a sign company is getting bad reviews and doing damage to the program, remove them from the listings.
3M should be trying to work with the local and regional sign shops around with dealership. This will end up providing the vehicle customer a better product and experience. OW is only going to damage the reputation of 3M with sign shops. This will leave the door open for your competitors to create a better network that utilizes sign shops and helps GET THEM WORK and not take it away from them! The current contracts you have with the major manufactures are not ironclad in the sense that you have no chance to lose them in the future.
Some of the things mentioned above are currently being executed within what you claim the OW program provides. But I am not buying most of it and see you as a competitor right now. I will slowly get my clients to use different brands of vehicle graphics. I am not alone and while you may think this is just some ranting in a forum, I don't think you fully realize the ramifications in the future, if the OW program stays on course.
I understand that its not as easy as the stated above... But I am not the person in charge that thought it would be a good idea to buyout OW and expand the program so that 3M increases their profits on vehicle graphics at the expense of local and regional sign companies. You guys did that... Now you need to fix it and make things right! You need to keep making profits on 3M products from the sign shops, not from selling directly to the client! That is our job and there is no gray area to it!!!
HulkSmash
New Member
Good post ballpark,
I was talking to a guy last night, and we figured the only way this is going to truly work for 3M, is if they get out of the "Custom Graphics" Market.
they can keep doing store stocked stripes, but it will never work out if they're going to be offering custom graphics.
it's simple.
I was talking to a guy last night, and we figured the only way this is going to truly work for 3M, is if they get out of the "Custom Graphics" Market.
they can keep doing store stocked stripes, but it will never work out if they're going to be offering custom graphics.
it's simple.
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