Should you fire this employee?

[Mosh]

I know I would want to fire him, but that would not be the Christian thing to do. He needs help. Keep a close eye on him, but he needs help. Follow your heart, it is only money, more can be made. Think of the poor children, lost their mom, now dad is doing anything so they can survive. Take him to church with you, it might do you both good to have someone to talk to, God is always listening.

 

[ndemond]

Pat, he has to be let go, I had a similar situation a few years back, the employee was my brother-in-law. And he did bottom out before he got the help he needed. I don't know how many times I bought equipment back from pawn shops. Always promising never again, and another saw would come up missing. Very tough heartbreaking decision.

Nancy

 

[astro8]

It's pathetic to think that we're even suggesting anything other than criminal charges.
Great guy? you've just been robbed. ROBBED!

ROBBED! ROBBED! ROBBED! Still sounds like ROBBED to me no matter haw many times you say it.

pathetic

Just maybe we're not all 'eye for an eye' arseholes...some of us might value people (and kids) more than profits....

 

[cptcorn]

Humphf.

Sure is a tough one there, Pat. Not a situation I'd wanna be in, but in all fairness, I can't believe the owner had NO idea any of this was going on over such a long period of time. In our shop, we all talk about all kinds of things and we bounce ideas, stories and problems off of each other all the time. Some people think that's not good to be so buddy/buddy, but that's me. I like people and want to help in any way I can... if it's a worthy cause.

With all of the problems and insight this guy/owner has now, so long after so much has happened, I would probably try to help this guy. Sure, he might've done some pretty nasty things, but the way he was described here, he was embarrassed or had too much pride to ask for help and wanted to fix it on his own. Yeah, he went about it wrong, but he sounds decent and I would want to help him get back on track.

I would not fire him, but I would put him on probation and start a plan with him to get his life back in order. Try council with him and see that those kids are cared for properly. The money he made is gone and no use in discussing. They all need to look to the future for a successful outcome here.

I'm with Gino...

The owner has invested too much into this already.

 

[Deaton Design]

Damn, after reading Ginos reply, I might have to agree with him. My first response was to fire him, but I sat here thinking about it, and reading the responses, and it got to me a little. The probation period would be a definite thing, and a close eye,and telling him that the first slipup, especially taking business, he would be gone. Lotta thinking on a matter like this.

 

[Arlo Kalon 2.0]

Pat, he has to be let go, I had a similar situation a few years back, the employee was my brother-in-law. And he did bottom out before he got the help he needed. I don't know how many times I bought equipment back from pawn shops. Always promising never again, and another saw would come up missing. Very tough heartbreaking decision.

Nancy

Same here... only person I've ever fired was a brother in law. I imported him from Indiana to be a salesman based on father in law's relentless effort to get me to give him a job. Father in law said his son could sell anything. He was a totally brainwashed Amway guy. I drove past the shop one night and saw his car there. Went back and went in to find him using new copier to run copies of all his Amway literature. The counter read 30,00 pages printed! I charged him for it on his next paycheck. I began getting customer complaints that he was peddling Amway to them on sign sales calls. I warned him to stop. Last straw was when biggest customer called and complained that he was peddling Amway travel discount coupon books to them. This family routinely makes Forbes richest Americans list. In addition to travelling in a private Gulfstream jet, they own their own hotels (Worthington) along the way. Whn I pointed this out to brother in law, he said "it doesn't matter how rich people are - everyone needs to save money". I told him to get lost on the spot. Nearly cost me a divorce as I propelled him into abject poverty. The SOB then went out and had business cards printed for a fictitious sign company with himself as president and began calling on my customers telling them I was going out of business. He was going to sub the work he sold out ot other sign people. What he didn't know was that the sign people he contacted were friends of mine who told me about his efforts. I called father in law and said if "you don't come and take him back to Indiana, I'm going to sue him". He came and picked his worthless ass up and we didn't speak for four years. He landed on his feet though by marrying a woman he met at an Amway convention. She was a pharmacist who inherited a cattle ranch in Nebrasks. I guess he was the lunatic she was looking for.

 

[BargainSigns]

He has to go. He is already in business for himself anyway. Tell him you'll give him some wholesale pricing.

Marianna

 

[Circleville Signs]

I think the biggest lesson in all of this is if you have an employee who is going through this kind of stuff, and you KNOW they are going through it, be EXTRA VIGILENT in your business dealings. If a client who does 15 billboard wraps in 18 months is on my client list, you can bet that I'm calling if 30 days go by and I haven't heard from them. That would have nipped this in the bud early on.

Also, sit that employee down when you see what they are going through, OUTSIDE of the work environment, and let them know that you are there to help in any way that you can.


Gary

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

hahaha Mosh giving out 'christian' advice...too funny.

 

[Rodi]

Pat,
I would fire this person and tell them to get out. The terrible thing is that he stole from you and his fellow workers. What does this say to them? When the whole thing started, the wife leaving, I would have wondered where the money would be coming from… and it was a pay raise from his boss…
The harm to the business is bad enough, the trust was broken. It is not like you are not paying him and he is taking from you!
If he came to you and told you he had done this, it would be one thing, but you are fortunate that someone was looking out for you, otherwise, how long could this have been happening.

 

[threeputt]

Would have to go, I'm afraid.

 

[Mike Paul]

He can't be trusted, let him go.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Fired! Just went through similar for even less. My experiences have always been the more I helped someone, the harder they screwed me in the long run. That goes for personal and business relationships.

 

[wrapman jamz]

Ok, only because someone decided I'm an "arsehole" looking for an "eye for an eye" result to this question will I respond.

Let's say someone walked into your shop, put a gun in our face and demanded that you empty the til. It just so happens that you received an $11,000 cash deposit and rather than get shot you hand over the cash.

Sounds like a bad day.

After you hand over the cash... the guy gives you $500 back and says his wife is dying of cancer and needs money for a treatment. Then turns and walks out.

What do YOU do?

What's the difference? Somebody, tell me the difference?

 

[signage]

He put a gun to my face! And that is a Felony!

 

[Marlene]

Ok, only because someone decided I'm an "arsehole" looking for an "eye for an eye" result to this question will I respond.

Let's say someone walked into your shop, put a gun in our face and demanded that you empty the til. It just so happens that you received an $11,000 cash deposit and rather than get shot you hand over the cash.

Sounds like a bad day.

After you hand over the cash... the guy gives you $500 back and says his wife is dying of cancer and needs money for a treatment. Then turns and walks out.

What do YOU do?

What's the difference? Somebody, tell me the difference?

not sure I get what you are saying. are you saying that there's justification for robbing someone as long as they have a good reason?

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

because of the dollars involved i believe they both may be felonies.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

That is a tough one Pat. I have always said..."Show me how much you want to work here and your wishes will be granted. Show me how much you don't, and again your wishes will be granted". In some ways the employee has displayed wishes on both ends of the spectrum. On the negative end, it appears to be circumstance driven rather than actual desire. I might not be so willing to throw the guy out so quickly. He has displayed a character in his past on the positive end that is very difficult to find and is most likely still present, yet temporarily skewed by the circumstances of his life. Personally, I'd weigh the positives and negatives of keeping this guy around. I'd like to think that there is a lot that can be salvaged of the situation and possibly some very good things can develop in the future. If the employee is in fact remorseful of his wrongs and willing to right those wrongs, I as the employer might be willing to have some compassion and work with the guy to help him out and up. It would certainly take some time and not be easy, nothing ever is. I believe that there is a silver lining in every storm cloud and that in some cases a lot of good can develop out of a bad situation. I would have to determine to what extent I care about and value this individual as an employee along with his capabilities and potential....as well as a human being and weigh all the possible positives vs. negatives of keeping or kicking him to the curb.......but hey, thats just me.
I've been faced with this situation a couple times in the past. One time I determined that It was not going to come to any good to work it out so I let the guy go and he did in fact hit bottom and remains there to this day. The other time, It was determined that It was the right thing to keep the guy, work it out and everything turned out just fine and for the better for both of us.

 

[signage]

Dan that depends on what the lathe and saw are worth, the stolen sales from customers are only a speculation that you would have gotten that work! The guy with a gun has committed several Felonies at one instance!

 

[Grafix USA]

Bottom line... dishonesty shouldn't be forgiven because of hard times. I know there are stories worse than his where people didn't resort to stealing from their employers. If he is dishonest during hard times he will find a way to justify being dishonest during good times.

He's got to go!