Replicator
New Member
Everybody deserves a second chance, I agree with Gino on this one !
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Should you fire this employee?
- Thread starter Pat Whatley
- Start date
wrapman jamz
New Member
There is NEVER a justification for any type of crime. My point is, this issue involves a crime, committed by an employee, who just so happens to be going thru hard times and decides that the Business he works for is a financial solution to his problems.
So he devises a plan to rob his employer right under his nose.
Now we're discussing helping the guy out?
Hmmm...sounds like our Government helpin Wall Street.
Either way, I still say it's a crime.
So he devises a plan to rob his employer right under his nose.
Now we're discussing helping the guy out?
Hmmm...sounds like our Government helpin Wall Street.
Either way, I still say it's a crime.
Techman
New Member
he enabled himself by using your resources. It started when he sub'd out the first job. Let him go. When he is done getting his finances in order (bankcruptcy) he may be welcome back.
I watched lots of people go thru terrible financial challenges. Most of them simply tightened up the belt and got thru it just fine. They internally found the resources to acheive.
A few didn't and most of them who did not were enabled by some outside influence that in the long run did nothing to save them. Those few did not have what it took internally to make good decisions..
I watched lots of people go thru terrible financial challenges. Most of them simply tightened up the belt and got thru it just fine. They internally found the resources to acheive.
A few didn't and most of them who did not were enabled by some outside influence that in the long run did nothing to save them. Those few did not have what it took internally to make good decisions..
weaselboogie
New Member
As much as it would be nice to help get this guy back on his feet, he's already crossed too many lines.
Poconopete
New Member
He didn't sell the stuff for a fix of crack-"Turns out the employee had pawned one of the lathes over there several times, typically paying it out in a month...then back with it a couple of months later. Then one month he took in a saw, and used part of the money to renew the pawn on the lathe. Then got them both out, then pawned them both again. The cycle kept escalating until he had about $12,000 in pawn and was literally counting pennies to pay the interest. When the stuff was about to go out to be sold by the pawn shop my friend at the shop started cleaning it, saw my dad's company name on it and put the whole story together."
He was desperate and still trying to not actually steal the stuff. No, it doesn't make it right. I believe he's worth taking a chance on.
wrapman jamz
New Member
Up to $12,000 in pawn, plus $11,000 in billboard prints plus his salary at work. All in 18 months? Are you sure he didn't turn to crack? Sound like alot of money for a mortgage????
signage
New Member
I don't know if you are correct is assuming that he didn't steal the stuff! Did he ever bring them back or was he just hanging on to them?
This a hard thing to answer not really knowing the guy, he could have been doing things underhanded since day one who knows! My experience point to once a lier(thief) always a lier(thief)!
SignosaurusRex
Active Member
I'm not suggesting simply helping the guy out. I'm suggesting exploring whether or not the situation can be made a positive. It may be possible to turn this into something good for the employer as well as the employee, it may not. Simply looking at the situation from one angle can be a very narrow road with no shoulder and no connecting paths. Stepping back and viewing all angles and possibilities may show some positive options or paths.
Visual.Elements
New Member
Quite honestly, he sounds like a good guy that went south. It's a shame, but he should be fired. The 2 reasons are extremely clear. He was dishonest and frankly guilty of grand theft (felony) when he took your equipment to use for pawn. He also robbed you of business. If you didn't have a signed 'no-compete' agreement with him, you should have, but either way if he took jobs from your business, that's dishonest at the very least. Even if the guy was my own brother or best friend, I would have no choice but to let him go. He may have been having hard times but if he made these choices, he did this to himself. You have a business to run and your own welfare to look after.
Pat Whatley
New Member
AGAIN, this has nothing to do with me, I'm just floating it out there.
Thinking about it since I posted it I had a thought that falls between keeping him and letting him go. I'm thinking it might be a better thing to do to let the guy go...then do everything possible to help him get back on his feet (and pay back the pawn money)
The guy needs to let the damn house go. The house is awesome and it would kill me to lose it if it was mine, but the house payment is about 3/4 of his monthly income. The payment wasn't a big deal when he was married, his wife was making a serious income, but there's no way he can cover it by himself.
Thinking about it since I posted it I had a thought that falls between keeping him and letting him go. I'm thinking it might be a better thing to do to let the guy go...then do everything possible to help him get back on his feet (and pay back the pawn money)
The guy needs to let the damn house go. The house is awesome and it would kill me to lose it if it was mine, but the house payment is about 3/4 of his monthly income. The payment wasn't a big deal when he was married, his wife was making a serious income, but there's no way he can cover it by himself.
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wrapman jamz
New Member
LMAO!!! Pat you are "a funny guy" Maybe this is what it sounds like at Congress!!!
Just a hypothetical? Awesome house? Pay back the pawn? Great Guy? Help get back on his feet?
Do you have any room at your house? My Family of five, my 2 dogs and the cat are comin' your way!!! Can I put the RV in the street and run the sewer hose into the street drain?
Just a hypothetical? Awesome house? Pay back the pawn? Great Guy? Help get back on his feet?
Do you have any room at your house? My Family of five, my 2 dogs and the cat are comin' your way!!! Can I put the RV in the street and run the sewer hose into the street drain?
Jester1167
Premium Subscriber
The way the story is told, I feel sorry for the guy, but I doubt that's the whole unvarnished truth, good and/or bad.
3 years later a customer you have never met enters your shop.
Customer "I have a truck I need you to take a look at. I want you to remove the graphics and make new ones for my new truck"
You "Who did you graphics last time?"
Customer " So and So (you former employee) He did a good job, but his wife left him and he moved away."
Just something to think about.
3 years later a customer you have never met enters your shop.
Customer "I have a truck I need you to take a look at. I want you to remove the graphics and make new ones for my new truck"
You "Who did you graphics last time?"
Customer " So and So (you former employee) He did a good job, but his wife left him and he moved away."
Just something to think about.
cptcorn
adad
I see a few people saying let him go, that have voiced their religious beliefs (in other parts of this forum)... and in this post they ignore everything their religion has taught them... Interesting.
He's showed hes not worthless in the past... Give him the choice of staying or leaving... and then stick to it.
Sorry to bring religion into it... but yeah... I hate everyone.
He's showed hes not worthless in the past... Give him the choice of staying or leaving... and then stick to it.
Sorry to bring religion into it... but yeah... I hate everyone.
Pat Whatley
New Member
Billct2
Active Member
He's gone, not your choice, his. He made the decisions that make it impossible to keep him, plus as most do, when he fessed up he still was holding back some of the truth.
But I would also offer him the chance to work off his debt and hold out the possibility of
things changing in the future if he gets his act together. He needs to make some serious decisons immediately.
But I would also offer him the chance to work off his debt and hold out the possibility of
things changing in the future if he gets his act together. He needs to make some serious decisons immediately.
Poconopete
New Member
Maybe he was hanging on to them... IDK
speedneeds
New Member
I had a similar situation happen to me in my auto repair shop. The employee was a real asset to my company and worked very hard and was always bringing in new business. He had been with me for a few years and had really became a good friend also. Some problems in life got him in a bad situation and he started taking work from my business. He would tell customers that he done work on the side at home for a cheaper price. I finally had a good customer come to me about him approaching them with the offer. I confronted him with the accusation, he explained what had happened and told me he had taken some jobs on the side. He was real up front with me in telling which customers and jobs. I warned him about doing such a thing and offered to help him in any way. I even offered to pay for counseling to help him with his situation. I didn't fire him at that time. I did however continue to investigate into the matter. After a week or two of talking with customers and parts suppliers I had a total of about $4,000 worth of work that had been stolen from my business (business = my family) in the past 4 or 5 months. Which did not match his story of $400 or $500. With that total steady growing every day, the friendship was declining proportionately. After all was said and done I arrived at a total of about $11,000 - $12,000. He was once again confronted, but this time with a different attitude. He had continued in his ways even after the first confrontation and with all that had came to light was no longer an asset but had become a liability. I fired him, and his world crashed around him all within a matter of days. This was several years ago and I occasionally hear about him, he is doing better these days but I still have no trust or faith in him or his word.
The lesson I learned in all of this is you can be good to your employees but don't become friends. Even though they may seem to be sincere there can always be the one who is looking to take advantage of your friendship. So now I always maintain a working relationship only.
The lesson I learned in all of this is you can be good to your employees but don't become friends. Even though they may seem to be sincere there can always be the one who is looking to take advantage of your friendship. So now I always maintain a working relationship only.
Blazingsun
New Member
Tuff dissision, althought the dissision he has made where not the right ones.. and as PoconoPete has said he was not using the money for bad intentions or for Drugs and he did attempetd to return the equipment.. I would keep him on also based on what was said, but with very strick terms with it put out in front that any slips ups he is out on his @zz..
I view it this way because he has 3 kids and firing him would only make the problem worse leaving him with no income and 3 kids to feed...and I also would make good note to him that I was only given him the second chance because of the Kids. why should the Kids suffer for some miss direction of there Parents..
At least he hasn't left the Kids out in the cold as his wife did.. he tried what he thought was right, although they where not the right ideas..
People make mistakes and some learn from ther mistakes.. he sounds like he is one of them that Learn. I give him the second chance with hope of him paying me back some day.
My wife says I have this talent of spoting @holes within ten seconds of meeting someone and know when to say clear of them.... he doesn't fit the Bill, he just made some wrong choice's.
I view it this way because he has 3 kids and firing him would only make the problem worse leaving him with no income and 3 kids to feed...and I also would make good note to him that I was only given him the second chance because of the Kids. why should the Kids suffer for some miss direction of there Parents..
At least he hasn't left the Kids out in the cold as his wife did.. he tried what he thought was right, although they where not the right ideas..
People make mistakes and some learn from ther mistakes.. he sounds like he is one of them that Learn. I give him the second chance with hope of him paying me back some day.
My wife says I have this talent of spoting @holes within ten seconds of meeting someone and know when to say clear of them.... he doesn't fit the Bill, he just made some wrong choice's.