Sign Brokering

[legacyborn]

Hello all,

I've been in the industry for 7 years now and due to some health issues I had to leave my last position. Now that my health issues are resolved I am looking to return to work, but of course, I am having difficulties finding work. I want to own my own business again but do not have the funds to do it correctly, and I don't really want to start a lick & stick shop. (we have enough of those around here already)

I have been considering Brokering and am wondering if anyone has any experience with brokers that they could share. How do you pay them? Do they quote jobs or do you? Do you just offer wholesale pricing to them and they can mark it up whatever they like? Does a broker need a resale certificate?

I know we have a couple of brokers around here, I would love to hear from them. Any help would be great.

Thanks!

 

[Techman]

Some will say "I avoid brokers like I avoid the plague".

Others say they use them.

I would use one if they brought me lots of work.
I will not use one if he is looking like someone working as a jack leg or constantly trying to beat down the prices.

 

[Gino]

Nothing in this is directed towards you, but it's been my experience that practically all 'Brokers' are sleazeballs.

There are countless threads on this very subject here at s101..... and my feelings have not changes one bit.

Let me ask you this..... can you hand paint or carve signs ??
Can you build electrical signs of any sorts ??
Can you make any signs other than vinyl whether printed or die-cut ??

 

[legacyborn]

Nothing in this is directed towards you, but it's been my experience that practically all 'Brokers' are sleazeballs.

There are countless threads on this very subject here at s101..... and my feelings have not changes one bit.

Let me ask you this..... can you hand paint or carve signs ??
Can you build electrical signs of any sorts ??
Can you make any signs other than vinyl whether printed or die-cut ??

I did a search for other threads and didn't find much, my search-fu isn't strong on this forum.

Can't hand paint or carve signs. I can build electrical, though it isn't my favorite thing. I can build printed and die cut signs using wholesale contacts locally for the supplies. My big issue with doing things myself is I have no place to do them. I live in a condo (no garage) so it is difficult to get the space to assemble and produce. Mostly my role is Management/Customer Service/Sales and basic design.

 

[Techman]

Good luck, I wish you well.
However, I used to have one of you come through the door once a month.

 

[legacyborn]

Good luck, I wish you well.
However, I used to have one of you come through the door once a month.

Hey watch that "one of you" stuff, I haven't made up my mind.

I just found the Broker thread (yikes)

While I wouldn't ever do most of those things (Like asking for a better price, or not paying for my work) as I know what the industry is like, payments up front, and an understanding of fair pricing, I am not sure it is for me. I would still love some more info if anyone has other input.

I'm just trying to find a way to stay in an industry that I love, in this difficult job market.

 

[Gino]

I did a search for other threads and didn't find much, my search-fu isn't strong on this forum.

Can't hand paint or carve signs. I can build electrical, though it isn't my favorite thing. I can build printed and die cut signs using wholesale contacts locally for the supplies. My big issue with doing things myself is I have no place to do them. I live in a condo (no garage) so it is difficult to get the space to assemble and produce. Mostly my role is Management/Customer Service/Sales and basic design.

You might want to add the word Adtechia/Addie to your search. He was the most recent sign broker in this place. He was a nice enough guy, but left to his own means, he was a disaster of all his own doing. He believed his own lies and BS.... and it eventually ate him up.

Most 'Brokers' cannot make/create much themselves and would rather be a salesman so to speak and still represent themselves as being real sign people, by deceiving their customers about what they really do. The salesman part was a nice word, while their real role is 'Middleman' and how many people do you know who don't mind paying the middleman for something they feel is unnecessary ??

Sure, everyone has to make a living, but the majority of my experience and talking with many many people in the trade is the same. Once they get a job, they look around for the cheapest guy to make the sign so they can make some profit. Making a living, paying bills..... just putting food on the table becomes harder and harder, so they need to search and find cheaper shops to do their work and make bigger profits. They burn bridge after bridge, until they can't find anyone to make cheap signs without falling apart in two weeks, so for the most part.... a sign 'Broker' doesn't have much of a chance, unless he just brokers out brochures, business cards and other stuff, nobody in the sign business wants to be bothered with, because of the high volume you have to do to make it worthwhile.

So, while we all broker things from time to time, it isn't how we make our mainstay. It's a nice additive to the mixture, but I for one could not 'Broker' 100% of my business, thus why I asked if you could do anything else.

If you must, why don't you just find a shop that could use you and work for them, until you can afford a garage or small place to start up your own real place ??

 

[legacyborn]

Excellent post Gino, thank you.

I have applied for pretty much every shop around here that is worth anything. No jobs available right now.

I'm lucky not to *need* to be employed right now thanks to my fantastic wife.

What I was thinking of doing is finding a single shop to work with and have them pay me a percentage of the jobs I bring them, as opposed to traditional brokering. Which I guess would make me an outside sales person. My only big concern with this idea is that I don't want to feel pressured into "selling" people and trying to make goals. I prefer an informed decision style of selling.

I've found a couple of other Addie threads, thanks for the advice.

 

[Gino]

Well, if she's supporting your butt, why not go in to a shop for a low wage and tell them you just wanna work ??

 

[Mosh]

+1 "Brokers' are sleazeballs."

Sorry but everyone that I have dealt with has burn thier bridge to my shop, some more than once (I always try to give second chances)

 

[legacyborn]

Well, if she's supporting your butt, why not go in to a shop for a low wage and tell them you just wanna work ??

:ROFLMAO:

I do like to get paid decently for my work. Also I will have to put my daughter into day care when I do go back, so it needs to pay for that (and be worth it on top of that).

 

[Gino]

Suddenly, now you have conditions......:ROFLMAO:​

 

[Sticky Signs]

For what it's worth, one of my biggest clients is a broker. She's in the East and i'm on the Westcoast. She sends me all of the work for my area. I bill her accordingly and she adds her own mark up. We've been working together since 2007 without any major issues and she sends me more and more work every year.

 

[Gino]

For what it's worth, one of my biggest clients is a broker. She's in the East and i'm on the Westcoast. She sends me all of the work for my area. I bill her accordingly and she adds her own mark up. We've been working together since 2007 without any major issues and she sends me more and more work every year.

Out of curiosity.... and if you don't mind, what are your three best selling items you make for this 'Broker' ??

 

[CanuckSigns]

What I was thinking of doing is finding a single shop to work with and have them pay me a percentage of the jobs I bring them, as opposed to traditional brokering. Which I guess would make me an outside sales person. My only big concern with this idea is that I don't want to feel pressured into "selling" people and trying to make goals. I prefer an informed decision style of selling.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would love to have someone like this! I don't want to have a full time sales person on staff, but if someone in your position came to me with this proposal I would jump on it. No pressure to sell from us, but we would pay you a percentage of the profits for the sale.

Sounds like a win win to me, especially if you are loyal to a certain shop.

 

[legacyborn]

Sounds like a win win to me, especially if you are loyal to a certain shop.

Thanks! This is my hope. I'm working on putting a resume/proposal letter together for potential shops. There are only a couple of shops in the area that are worth working for/with so I hope one of takes me up on it, otherwise I think I'm going to wait until I can work out something on my own.

 

[Rick]

What kind of signs will you be selling to your customers?

 

[Gino]

Let me ask you a question legacy........

If you tap into several sign shops, don't you think they'll feel you' re telling the other guy what prices they have to beat or how someone else is making something. How are you going to determine who gets what ?? Who gets the big jobs vs. who gets the PITA's ??

You run a risk of getting all of them angry with what you intend to start out being a level playing field. I for one, probably because I've been tainted by some really bad ones.... would never use you if you were going to work for several shops.

It sounds like Color's complaint about 3M giving out wrap jobs with some missing and some gaining without any recourse.

 

[legacyborn]

Let me ask you a question legacy........

If you tap into several sign shops, don't you think they'll feel you' re telling the other guy what prices they have to beat or how someone else is making something. How are you going to determine who gets what ?? Who gets the big jobs vs. who gets the PITA's ??

You run a risk of getting all of them angry with what you intend to start out being a level playing field. I for one, probably because I've been tainted by some really bad ones.... would never use you if you were going to work for several shops.

It sounds like Color's complaint about 3M giving out wrap jobs with some missing and some gaining without any recourse.

I agree with this completely Gino! That's why my goal is to only work with one or the other (sorry if I didn't make that clear). I've worked for a local shop (Since closed) as an outside sales person and it was difficult enough dealing with ONE group of people (designer, installer, owner) I wouldn't want to be dealing with multiples! haha!

As to the types of signs I would sell, most of the clients I've dealt with in the past have been real estate agents and owners. The vehicles for many local businesses (mostly cut vinyl and the occasional partial wrap) and some electrical signage here and there.

 

[Gino]

Okay, I didn't understand. My bad.

Well, good luck and maybe if you show them what you can do, besides working for a piece of the pie, you could get some regular work out of it, too.