SignManiac
New Member
You suck mate! But in an extraordinary way Brian 
JK...
JK...
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Signs101 - Is it just me....
- Thread starter neato
- Start date
The Sign Dude
New Member
What he said
TheSellOut
New Member
Honestly, I haven't looked at this site in months, but only due to the fact that business picked up while I was in the middle of moving shop, investing in a digital printer and laminator, the learning curve that comes along with that, and to top it all off...I have a 10 month old baby!
I really missed the site, all of the great members, the great posts, the creativity, contributing to post, getting bashed, and all while learning on a daily basis!
All in all, this is a GREAT site! It might feel as tedious as weeding sometimes (peeling through all of the garbage to get to the good stuff) but in the end it's worth it!
I really missed the site, all of the great members, the great posts, the creativity, contributing to post, getting bashed, and all while learning on a daily basis!
All in all, this is a GREAT site! It might feel as tedious as weeding sometimes (peeling through all of the garbage to get to the good stuff) but in the end it's worth it!
high impact
New Member
There will always be mountaintops and valleys in regards to business and attitudes but this last recession has seemed to really take the cake.
I've not done much posting since the days of reciprocity have all but disappeared around here. I've seen some people provide years of solid ethical business advice on this forum and yet still have rookie "know it alls" come in here and constantly belittle credible advice from proven sources. I have recently shared a book cover layout I was having difficulties with in the premium section but hardly had anyone post any helpful advice at all. People are definitely not sharing what they used to, including myself. The layout and design elements I learned when I first joined here were priceless and I thank all those who gave solid constructive design advice over the years. I would love to see some more of that kind of mentoring.
I've not done much posting since the days of reciprocity have all but disappeared around here. I've seen some people provide years of solid ethical business advice on this forum and yet still have rookie "know it alls" come in here and constantly belittle credible advice from proven sources. I have recently shared a book cover layout I was having difficulties with in the premium section but hardly had anyone post any helpful advice at all. People are definitely not sharing what they used to, including myself. The layout and design elements I learned when I first joined here were priceless and I thank all those who gave solid constructive design advice over the years. I would love to see some more of that kind of mentoring.
Just Me
New Member
pretty much sums up how i feel too
to me, this site has really gone downhill, it use to be my no.1 site that i visited everyday usually on and off all day, now i occasionally drop in but usually dont post much. Just too much negativity and you have to buy a membership attitude, although i am thankful to Fred for the site.
gabagoo
New Member
I joined this forum originally to get help with digital printing. I was lost and although I have many friends in the business, none were digitally printing.
It was very frustrating for me to get any real help from my dealer and I even begged them to give me a list of those they sold my particular set up to so that I could compare notes. They would not cooperate. Maybe for obvious reasons.
Finding this forum was a God send for me. The help and advice I get daily is worth more to me than you could put a dollar amount on.
I do not come from a design background and sometimes feel intimidated to actually post anything here. The truth is that outside of basic design and layout, I really do not run that type of business.
Most of my work comes from customers that already have logos and files ready to go, or I just have to re size and do some layout work for vehicles etc... From the perspective of generating income, I sort of like it this way. I can pump out quite a bit of work when everything is generally ready to go.
Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy the odd chance I get to design and I have a few customers that allow me to be creative although for the most part I am a duplication artist...lol
I think we all come here for many different reasons.
I love this place
It was very frustrating for me to get any real help from my dealer and I even begged them to give me a list of those they sold my particular set up to so that I could compare notes. They would not cooperate. Maybe for obvious reasons.
Finding this forum was a God send for me. The help and advice I get daily is worth more to me than you could put a dollar amount on.
I do not come from a design background and sometimes feel intimidated to actually post anything here. The truth is that outside of basic design and layout, I really do not run that type of business.
Most of my work comes from customers that already have logos and files ready to go, or I just have to re size and do some layout work for vehicles etc... From the perspective of generating income, I sort of like it this way. I can pump out quite a bit of work when everything is generally ready to go.
Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy the odd chance I get to design and I have a few customers that allow me to be creative although for the most part I am a duplication artist...lol
I think we all come here for many different reasons.
I love this place
astro8
New Member
Way I see it is as the world economy nose-dived so did the attitude on here.
People on here with less to do vent their frustrations. If you're busy and prospering you haven't got the time nor inclination to do so.
It's human nature I s'pose...people see newbies with a plotter or printer as a threat and give give them a hard time or take a stab at someone's work that they wouldn't normaly do...or see someone doing well and then get envious, jealous or nasty.
If you don't see them as a threat you don't care what they do, as time will sort them out. The genuinely keen and interested will go on to better things, but most will fall by the wayside.
If you're doing bigger, better and brighter work than the newbies or your competition for that matter, what have you got to worry about?
I'll take Prowraps™ as an example. I don't know the guy from a bar of soap. From my understanding he hasn't been in the business forever, but he seems to be doing ok. He's positive, passionate and proactive but yet it does seem everytime he posts he's getting crap in return. Some off the stuff he says is outright boastful (with tongue in cheek)...so what? He has the foundation to back it up from what I've seen. I don't see him putting newbies down or getting around here with a bad attitude feeling sorry for himself...because he has worked hard, researched hard, marketed hard and manouvered his business into a position in the market whereby he doesn't perceive newbies as a threat.
I'll probably be labeled now as a 'Prowraps™ lover' ..ahahah!
People on here with less to do vent their frustrations. If you're busy and prospering you haven't got the time nor inclination to do so.
It's human nature I s'pose...people see newbies with a plotter or printer as a threat and give give them a hard time or take a stab at someone's work that they wouldn't normaly do...or see someone doing well and then get envious, jealous or nasty.
If you don't see them as a threat you don't care what they do, as time will sort them out. The genuinely keen and interested will go on to better things, but most will fall by the wayside.
If you're doing bigger, better and brighter work than the newbies or your competition for that matter, what have you got to worry about?
I'll take Prowraps™ as an example. I don't know the guy from a bar of soap. From my understanding he hasn't been in the business forever, but he seems to be doing ok. He's positive, passionate and proactive but yet it does seem everytime he posts he's getting crap in return. Some off the stuff he says is outright boastful (with tongue in cheek)...so what? He has the foundation to back it up from what I've seen. I don't see him putting newbies down or getting around here with a bad attitude feeling sorry for himself...because he has worked hard, researched hard, marketed hard and manouvered his business into a position in the market whereby he doesn't perceive newbies as a threat.
I'll probably be labeled now as a 'Prowraps™ lover' ..ahahah!
pointjockey
New Member
FrankenSigns.biz
New Member
The way I see it, there are two types of people on this forum. Those that believe that there are two types of people and those that do not.
inthesignbiz
New Member
The bashing of others work is tiring.
Those bashers should remember that
the posters are more than likely proud
of their work. Else, they wouldn't post it.
Secondly, most of the stuff that is posted
has already been installed.
The poster gets a whamy in that
their work is slammed by people that they
look up to for "already been down that road".
I would be thinking "These guys don't my work",
"It's been installed, I wonder if the customer is happy".
Although it needs to be done, giving contructive criticism is tough
without stepping on toes (and feelings).
I have local competition that have been in the business
since I was in kindergarten. They turn out the same
old thing they have always done. They don't care about
pushing it to a hgher level. Our, they have all the programs
and still turn out crummy designs.
I stive to do a better design and better work.
As should we all. After all, isn't that why we
are here?
Crtisism needs to be given (gotten) for any
of us to push ourselves to be better at the
craft we have chosen.
Personally, I would like to see more of how
the bashers would make the design better
rather than using words to wound.
I wrestle with buying a membership
to the site. But if I wanted someone
to belittle me at a cost, I would have stayed
married to either of my ex-wives.
As for me, I shall keep my work to myself
and be my own critic.
Those bashers should remember that
the posters are more than likely proud
of their work. Else, they wouldn't post it.
Secondly, most of the stuff that is posted
has already been installed.
The poster gets a whamy in that
their work is slammed by people that they
look up to for "already been down that road".
I would be thinking "These guys don't my work",
"It's been installed, I wonder if the customer is happy".
Although it needs to be done, giving contructive criticism is tough
without stepping on toes (and feelings).
I have local competition that have been in the business
since I was in kindergarten. They turn out the same
old thing they have always done. They don't care about
pushing it to a hgher level. Our, they have all the programs
and still turn out crummy designs.
I stive to do a better design and better work.
As should we all. After all, isn't that why we
are here?
Crtisism needs to be given (gotten) for any
of us to push ourselves to be better at the
craft we have chosen.
Personally, I would like to see more of how
the bashers would make the design better
rather than using words to wound.
I wrestle with buying a membership
to the site. But if I wanted someone
to belittle me at a cost, I would have stayed
married to either of my ex-wives.
As for me, I shall keep my work to myself
and be my own critic.
Rodi
New Member
I agree, I think there is a hierarchy of sorts; you see it and know what to avoid. I once tried telling someone using Frutiger for a sign was not more than picking a font, it was not a design… they got all pissed, but I maintain if you don't think, it is not design. Sometimes even the best and brightest think wrong, and therefore their work should be scrutinized at an even higher level, but people who are intimidated by a designers "name" will think "I'm stupid for thinking this design is stupid" and say "WOW" instead. I am not a designer, but I have worked with world famous ones (Several) and some great ones (a handful, mostly unkown, but far better than the famous ones with one exception.) It is hard to point out to a famous designer that something is remiss… you have to make them think it was their idea to begin with "Remember when you told me…"
Lunatic Taskbar
New Member
One of the elements I really enjoy here is when a group of designers come together to help someone. Suddenly you have all these different interpretations coming up from these very talented designers.
The end product usually looks nothing like the original and most agree its a great piece. The customer is happy as is every one else. Every one learnt a little bit.
I have had tremendous help on here. the one element I hate doing (as does others) is my own stuff. I can see the vision for others but simply come to a blank when confronted with my own needs.
I find that invaluable to be able to come here. Its much better than driving your self nuts going round and round in circles.
I also enjoy links to products I didn't even know existed. these lead into a new discovery path an possibly new lines or options for my own customers.
Peoples experience on new machines, software and such is also invaluable, where else could you find a huge group of people who are in the same industry, using probably the same software and such and can answer almost instantly and fix the problem. it really is a terrific resource.
I think the bashing element may come from how things are presented. I am sure if someone presented 4 or 5 ideas with a explanation of what they wanted or was trying to achieve - it demonstrates that the person has be trying. But just showing one version of something and asking for critique is possibly asking for put downs. If people are given more information then they can offer more and better targeted advice to that person. As an example the post "Logo critique" from Emily (idolturtle) (who currently has 7 posts so a noob) explained what she was trying to achieve, She explained her parameters. and showed a few examples. She has two replies. one giving a great link to some fantastic software that will both help her and anyone else who cares to view it. and another that says "looks like your off to a good start" now I don't see any bashing in there. The question was clear, She had various examples and had the parameters she needs to work within. and was helped. To me thats what Signs 101 is all about.
Ian
The end product usually looks nothing like the original and most agree its a great piece. The customer is happy as is every one else. Every one learnt a little bit.
I have had tremendous help on here. the one element I hate doing (as does others) is my own stuff. I can see the vision for others but simply come to a blank when confronted with my own needs.
I find that invaluable to be able to come here. Its much better than driving your self nuts going round and round in circles.
I also enjoy links to products I didn't even know existed. these lead into a new discovery path an possibly new lines or options for my own customers.
Peoples experience on new machines, software and such is also invaluable, where else could you find a huge group of people who are in the same industry, using probably the same software and such and can answer almost instantly and fix the problem. it really is a terrific resource.
I think the bashing element may come from how things are presented. I am sure if someone presented 4 or 5 ideas with a explanation of what they wanted or was trying to achieve - it demonstrates that the person has be trying. But just showing one version of something and asking for critique is possibly asking for put downs. If people are given more information then they can offer more and better targeted advice to that person. As an example the post "Logo critique" from Emily (idolturtle) (who currently has 7 posts so a noob) explained what she was trying to achieve, She explained her parameters. and showed a few examples. She has two replies. one giving a great link to some fantastic software that will both help her and anyone else who cares to view it. and another that says "looks like your off to a good start" now I don't see any bashing in there. The question was clear, She had various examples and had the parameters she needs to work within. and was helped. To me thats what Signs 101 is all about.
Ian
CES020
New Member
The "tone" mentioned by some in this thread can be corrected. It just takes time. It's done through moderation. Moderating is what sets and keeps the tone of the forum. If people post things that lead into heated name calling and are allowed to, then human nature says they'll do it again. If they are shut down from doing it a couple of times, they'll stop trying because they know it will be deleted or edited.
I've dug my heels in on issues and been told to knock it off. Yet other people dig their heels in and it's just fine.
Having said that, moderating a forum as large as this takes a lot of time, and I'm guessing it's not something that the owners have time to take on.
I wish I could contribute more, but it's hard to offer advice to people when there's a room full of people standing behind you with 10 times the experience you have ready and willing to answer the questions. Maybe one day I'll be at that level, but for now, I'm almost stuck being a "taker" instead of a "giver".
I also stopped about 6 months ago reading or posting on threads that several people that love to argue post on. That's kept me out of the gutter, and I feel like I have missed all the mudslinging that's being mentioned.
It's just like life, if you walked into a bar, there would be great people all around us, followed by 1 loud mouth at the end of the bar, looking to argue about anything. There are a lot of great people on this site, sharing great information. Don't let the loud mouth's at the end of the bar ruin the experience for you. Just learn to ignore them.
I've dug my heels in on issues and been told to knock it off. Yet other people dig their heels in and it's just fine.
Having said that, moderating a forum as large as this takes a lot of time, and I'm guessing it's not something that the owners have time to take on.
I wish I could contribute more, but it's hard to offer advice to people when there's a room full of people standing behind you with 10 times the experience you have ready and willing to answer the questions. Maybe one day I'll be at that level, but for now, I'm almost stuck being a "taker" instead of a "giver".
I also stopped about 6 months ago reading or posting on threads that several people that love to argue post on. That's kept me out of the gutter, and I feel like I have missed all the mudslinging that's being mentioned.
It's just like life, if you walked into a bar, there would be great people all around us, followed by 1 loud mouth at the end of the bar, looking to argue about anything. There are a lot of great people on this site, sharing great information. Don't let the loud mouth's at the end of the bar ruin the experience for you. Just learn to ignore them.
Bigdawg
Just Me
Actually we don't moderate the "tone" here... we aren't babysitters. You are all adults and we expect you to act like it. Fred has set the parameters and they are fairly loose. And generally if there is a problem we see, we step in.
But that report post button helps. (Top right in the post box, red triangle with ! in it). It helps a lot. We don't act on every report because sometimes we determine that we don't need to step in or it has played itself out. But Fred, Bobby or I do look at every reported post.
There is also an "ignore" button if there's a particular member that you don't want to read posts from. You can do that in your User CP--->Settings & Options--->Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.
Hope that helps some!
But that report post button helps. (Top right in the post box, red triangle with ! in it). It helps a lot. We don't act on every report because sometimes we determine that we don't need to step in or it has played itself out. But Fred, Bobby or I do look at every reported post.
There is also an "ignore" button if there's a particular member that you don't want to read posts from. You can do that in your User CP--->Settings & Options--->Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.
Hope that helps some!
SignManiac
New Member
In life, there are nice people and there are nasty people. We live in a world where you must watch every word you utter or risk being politically incorrect. We have become so sensitive that every potential word that hurts your feelings may require you visit a psychologist to help you cope.
What many people lack is common sense and the self restraint to hit -send- when in fact, you should take an extra second and ask yourself, is what I am about to post helpful or hurtful?
Hopefully with age, comes wisdom. I'd like to think that I'm learning to be a little smarter in the things I say to others. Sure, sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the feeding frenzy, I've done it in the past myself. But now I try really hard to think about what I say and if it's beneficial or not. I don't have to reply to every single thread. I don't care about post count numbers. I do try and offer mostly constructive and helpful answers where I can.
Some of us have been around internet forums for many, many years now and have learned what internet etiquette is all about. For many though, it may be their first time and they don't yet understand what etiquette is, but given time they will eventually learn or get their asses kicked out the door
Human nature being what it is, nasty posts will always happen. But maybe a few will take a second look before hitting send and less people will be offended. One added benefit to a second look, you might find and fix a few typo's that won't need to be edited later
What many people lack is common sense and the self restraint to hit -send- when in fact, you should take an extra second and ask yourself, is what I am about to post helpful or hurtful?
Hopefully with age, comes wisdom. I'd like to think that I'm learning to be a little smarter in the things I say to others. Sure, sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the feeding frenzy, I've done it in the past myself. But now I try really hard to think about what I say and if it's beneficial or not. I don't have to reply to every single thread. I don't care about post count numbers. I do try and offer mostly constructive and helpful answers where I can.
Some of us have been around internet forums for many, many years now and have learned what internet etiquette is all about. For many though, it may be their first time and they don't yet understand what etiquette is, but given time they will eventually learn or get their asses kicked out the door
Human nature being what it is, nasty posts will always happen. But maybe a few will take a second look before hitting send and less people will be offended. One added benefit to a second look, you might find and fix a few typo's that won't need to be edited later
CES020
New Member
Stacy, by not moderating the tone, you are, essentially setting the tone for the forum. If arguments are allows to get out of hand and no moderation is done or at the very least a "Hey, knock it off", then you ARE setting the tone.
I've seen some very family friendly forums and they are maintained family friendly because of what's allowed by moderators.
This forum seems to allow a very wide path for people to say or do anything. Just look at all the Sergio threads. There is some very bad stuff said in those threads. If that's allowed there, then people think it's allowed anywhere.
I'm not saying how it's moderated is right or wrong. I'll keep my opinion to myself unless someone asks me for it, I'm just stating that on all forums, the tone of the forum is controlled and set by the moderators. That can be active or passive moderation. Either way, those moderation actions do set the tone. If you go to a forum that's unmoderated, you'll see nothing but filth all through the posts. Go to one that's heavily moderated and you'll see a place that you would allow Children to visit and not worry about the content. There's a huge area in between those 2.
Moderation is one of the most thankless jobs on the internet. It takes a lot of work and you never get credit for all the good you do, you only get slammed for the few tough decisions you make. I'm not by any means suggesting that anyone on this forum doesn't do a great job in all they do to keep this place running. Please don't read my post as a knock at anyone, because it's not meant to be.
I've seen some very family friendly forums and they are maintained family friendly because of what's allowed by moderators.
This forum seems to allow a very wide path for people to say or do anything. Just look at all the Sergio threads. There is some very bad stuff said in those threads. If that's allowed there, then people think it's allowed anywhere.
I'm not saying how it's moderated is right or wrong. I'll keep my opinion to myself unless someone asks me for it, I'm just stating that on all forums, the tone of the forum is controlled and set by the moderators. That can be active or passive moderation. Either way, those moderation actions do set the tone. If you go to a forum that's unmoderated, you'll see nothing but filth all through the posts. Go to one that's heavily moderated and you'll see a place that you would allow Children to visit and not worry about the content. There's a huge area in between those 2.
Moderation is one of the most thankless jobs on the internet. It takes a lot of work and you never get credit for all the good you do, you only get slammed for the few tough decisions you make. I'm not by any means suggesting that anyone on this forum doesn't do a great job in all they do to keep this place running. Please don't read my post as a knock at anyone, because it's not meant to be.
ProWraps
New Member
i agree 100% with the post above. unfortunately the "hands off" approach is much the reason why the behavior is allowed and continues. i ran a very large forum for over 10 years.
my core visiters were people from 10-29. my forum never had the type of negative tone this one does. and it was becuase myself and my mods squashed any of that stuff from the get go.
and my usual disclaimer: this is my opinion. please dont bash me for it.
as far as newbies. they dont bother me at all. either you got it or you dont. why look like a dickhead bashing them for trying.
i think some people on this site get a BLATANT "pass" to do whatever they want to do. the sad part is, they have detracted heavily from this sites content.
i know a TON about my business. call it boastful or not. either way its the truth. and i now refuse to give any of it to this site due to the negative attitude and the bashing ill receive. its pretty sad actually.
my core visiters were people from 10-29. my forum never had the type of negative tone this one does. and it was becuase myself and my mods squashed any of that stuff from the get go.
and my usual disclaimer: this is my opinion. please dont bash me for it.
as far as newbies. they dont bother me at all. either you got it or you dont. why look like a dickhead bashing them for trying.
i think some people on this site get a BLATANT "pass" to do whatever they want to do. the sad part is, they have detracted heavily from this sites content.
i know a TON about my business. call it boastful or not. either way its the truth. and i now refuse to give any of it to this site due to the negative attitude and the bashing ill receive. its pretty sad actually.
Bigdawg
Just Me
CES020 I didn't take anything you posted as a knock... or personally. I speak only for myself and not any other admin when I throw my opinion out there on these kinds of subjects. My first post in this thread was totally from the heart.
I like Fred's less-moderation-is-more approach but sometimes in the process of people making an a$$ of themselves for all to see, it leaves a bad feel all-around. There are pluses and minuses to each and Fred has done a pretty good job in previous threads explaining why he does what he does.
Drawing that line between posting like a jerk and posting something that should be deleted is a real tough call.
I like Fred's less-moderation-is-more approach but sometimes in the process of people making an a$$ of themselves for all to see, it leaves a bad feel all-around. There are pluses and minuses to each and Fred has done a pretty good job in previous threads explaining why he does what he does.
Drawing that line between posting like a jerk and posting something that should be deleted is a real tough call.