SUMMA D140R - I need serious help.

[rjssigns]

If youre doing that many cut throughs why go with a summa? The cutting strips on these machines need to stay flat and even or you'll get spots that don't cut through properly. I know the summa has a stronger strip than a graphtec.... But if you're cutting through so much... Your strip is going to constantly need replacing.

We do roughly 30,000 decals a month on our graphtec and no issues...all perf cut.


Keep in mind paper dulls blades really quickly. So cutting through paper you'll go through quite a bit of blades. We use cheap $1 blades for our perf cutting... They last a week or so at the above volume, but at a buck a blade it doesn't break the bank.


I don't have a summa, and I have very little experience with them. Each machines have their benefits... But I believe at this volume.... Perf cutting via a Channel and not destroying your strip is likely the best option. Bring some material to your dealer and see how the graphtec cuts though. With the benefit of the channel... Comes some downfalls. You have to swap blade positions... And it is a bit slower at perf cutting. But we can load a roll on ours, send the whole roll through with the press of a button to do a kiss cut.. Swap it around and send the whole roll again to do perf cuts. It takes maybe 15 mins of manhours a day to cut a whole roll kiss and perf.

Nice! Real world experience at the same throughput as the OP but with the proper equipment. Can't argue with facts. Buck a blade is crazy cheap too.

 

[Goatshaver]

If youre doing that many cut throughs why go with a summa? The cutting strips on these machines need to stay flat and even or you'll get spots that don't cut through properly. I know the summa has a stronger strip than a graphtec.... But if you're cutting through so much... Your strip is going to constantly need replacing.

We do roughly 30,000 decals a month on our graphtec and no issues...all perf cut.


Keep in mind paper dulls blades really quickly. So cutting through paper you'll go through quite a bit of blades. We use cheap $1 blades for our perf cutting... They last a week or so at the above volume, but at a buck a blade it doesn't break the bank.


I don't have a summa, and I have very little experience with them. Each machines have their benefits... But I believe at this volume.... Perf cutting via a Channel and not destroying your strip is likely the best option. Bring some material to your dealer and see how the graphtec cuts though. With the benefit of the channel... Comes some downfalls. You have to swap blade positions... And it is a bit slower at perf cutting. But we can load a roll on ours, send the whole roll through with the press of a button to do a kiss cut.. Swap it around and send the whole roll again to do perf cuts. It takes maybe 15 mins of manhours a day to cut a whole roll kiss and perf.

Thank you. I'm glad to get more of the graphtec opinion as well. Like I said I just want something to work and not have to worry about the cuts every sheet I put in. The blade position thing isn't a deal breaker. I mean right now I'm back to doing my perf cuts on my Roland Sp540V. The FC9000 must be faster than this is cutting speed I'd imagine. I'm leaning towards the Graphtec but I have a lot of others tell me the Summa will do a great job as well. Guess I've gotta really decide what is good.

I wish I could see each in person but I don't think that I can anywhere close to me that I know of.

 

[ikarasu]

here, I just did a quick video. This is it reading the barcode, then starting to cut - you can see the speed in it. Usually I do it on roll to roll....Walk away and come back in few hours when the whole roll is perf cut, then pop out once it's done. I left it off just to show how it cuts as well as how popping them out is.

Roll to roll option is extra from the regular price... As well we have 2 extra pinch wheels (This helps when doing perf cutting as it holds the media down) . I find the only downfall to graphtec is if youre using cheap media, the paper will tend to rip when you pop them out, otherwise it works perfectly for us.

Again... I havent used summa much, or at all for perf cutting. So it may be sufficient for your needs! It may even work better than the graphtec. I have no real world experience with summas... I just know graphtec works well for us.

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Hello Ikarasu,

Are you only perf cutting with your Graphtec or are you combining a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job? If so, do you have to change the tool position between cut types and send the job twice(once for kiss cut and a second time for perf)? With the Summa cutters you can perform both a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job without having to change the tool position or send the job twice. This may not be a big deal for lower volumes, but for high volume shops that may be more work/time than they want to spend for jobs that require both cut types.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Hello Ikarasu,

Are you only perf cutting with your Graphtec or are you combining a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job? If so, do you have to change the tool position between cut types and send the job twice(once for kiss cut and a second time for perf)? With the Summa cutters you can perform both a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job without having to change the tool position or send the job twice. This may not be a big deal for lower volumes, but for high volume shops that may be more work/time than they want to spend for jobs that require both cut types.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[Goatshaver]

here, I just did a quick video. This is it reading the barcode, then starting to cut - you can see the speed in it. Usually I do it on roll to roll....Walk away and come back in few hours when the whole roll is perf cut, then pop out once it's done. I left it off just to show how it cuts as well as how popping them out is.

Roll to roll option is extra from the regular price... As well we have 2 extra pinch wheels (This helps when doing perf cutting as it holds the media down) . I find the only downfall to graphtec is if youre using cheap media, the paper will tend to rip when you pop them out, otherwise it works perfectly for us.

Again... I havent used summa much, or at all for perf cutting. So it may be sufficient for your needs! It may even work better than the graphtec. I have no real world experience with summas... I just know graphtec works well for us.

Thanks for that! So you guys just run a Perf cut and no contour cut before you perf over the same sticker? (on my roland I can do a contour and perf cut in one pass which makes the cuts come out nice and clean)

Hello Ikarasu,

Are you only perf cutting with your Graphtec or are you combining a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job? If so, do you have to change the tool position between cut types and send the job twice(once for kiss cut and a second time for perf)? With the Summa cutters you can perform both a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job without having to change the tool position or send the job twice. This may not be a big deal for lower volumes, but for high volume shops that may be more work/time than they want to spend for jobs that require both cut types.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

Can you do both of those cuts in a single pass? I haven't figured out a way to do that. I did try something similar, ran the contour cuts and then set the machine to flex and ran the flex cuts. Most came out good but a few here and there left slivers where the cuts didn't hit in quite the same spot. I didn't release the sheet between cuts as to make sure position would be the same as the first pass.

I'm really torn on this, it's a tough decision for a one person shop like mine.

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

The cutter doesn't perform both a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same pass, but in the same job. The Summa will kiss cut first and then perf cut second, but you only need to send the job once and don't need to change the tool position on the head. This is a big time saver for higher volume shops like I mentioned but may not be a big deal if you don't need to produce a ton of stickers.

Either way, you can get a new Summa tangential cutter for less than the new Graphtec FC9000 so it seems like a no brainer to me if you plan on sticking with a roll-fed setup.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[ikarasu]

Hello Ikarasu,

Are you only perf cutting with your Graphtec or are you combining a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job? If so, do you have to change the tool position between cut types and send the job twice(once for kiss cut and a second time for perf)? With the Summa cutters you can perform both a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same job without having to change the tool position or send the job twice. This may not be a big deal for lower volumes, but for high volume shops that may be more work/time than they want to spend for jobs that require both cut types.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

We kiss cut, and then perf. We load a whole roll in... tell the graphtec to cut, it'll cut...re-roll it... then we just plop it in the back and tell it to perf cut...that way youre only switching blade positions once... not for every job. Yes, it adds a whopping 10-20 seconds per job to re-read the marks... But when you can cut a whole roll with a 5 minute setup and walk away, it's not an issue..

From what I've heard... high volume shops need to replace their cutting strip on the summa pretty often. I'm not sure if thats the problem OP is having, but its the main reason we went with graphtec - We've gone months and 30+ rolls on this graphtec and not had to change the strip at all...doing kiss and perf cutting. We're not usually a high volume shop when it comes to cutting, but we have 100ish rolls to kiss/perf cut in a short time, and so far the graphtec hasnt let us down!

Again... not dissing summa. Just going by what I hear... I hear theyre great machines, and not swapping blade positions is nice... but for us doing rolls at once, it hasnt added much addition time or work when you can just roll to roll, swap the spindles and then perf cut the rest.

 

[Goatshaver]

The cutter doesn't perform both a kiss cut and a perf cut in the same pass, but in the same job. The Summa will kiss cut first and then perf cut second, but you only need to send the job once and don't need to change the tool position on the head. This is a big time saver for higher volume shops like I mentioned but may not be a big deal if you don't need to produce a ton of stickers.

Either way, you can get a new Summa tangential cutter for less than the new Graphtec FC9000 so it seems like a no brainer to me if you plan on sticking with a roll-fed setup.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

Guess it must just be Onyx that is the issue with being able to do that in one pass. I still have to figure out what to do with my still very new D140.

 

[ikarasu]

Thanks for that! So you guys just run a Perf cut and no contour cut before you perf over the same sticker? (on my roland I can do a contour and perf cut in one pass which makes the cuts come out nice and clean)



Can you do both of those cuts in a single pass? I haven't figured out a way to do that. I did try something similar, ran the contour cuts and then set the machine to flex and ran the flex cuts. Most came out good but a few here and there left slivers where the cuts didn't hit in quite the same spot. I didn't release the sheet between cuts as to make sure position would be the same as the first pass.

I'm really torn on this, it's a tough decision for a one person shop like mine.

I do a kiss cut, then a perf cut .2" out... I already kiss cut this whole roll (Took 30 mins to kiss cut 150 ft, however the decals are huge). I like to perf cut .2" so they can crack and peel the stickers. but yes, it was kiss cut first.

It'll kiss cut, then ask you to switch the blade and then do a perf cut on the graphtec as well. Not sure if theres a way to do it on the summa... but the graphtec will kiss cut, switch blade, then perf cut all while reading the marks once, if thats what youre talking about. we dont do it that way because we dont want to constantly switch blade positions though.

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Guess it must just be Onyx that is the issue with being able to do that in one pass. I still have to figure out what to do with my still very new D140.

I wish you had purchased the Summa from us originally as we could have provided you with much better training up front on how to best use your Summa cutter. We do offer extended support plans like I had mentioned to you in the past and you might consider getting one of those plans so our techs can help dial in your settings to get better results if you decide to keep your SummaCut.

For anyone considering a Summa cutter, I would encourage you to consider purchasing the equipment from us as we have the most knowledgeable Summa techs in the industry(we used to operate as Summa and know these cutters extremely well) and you receive unlimited toll-free tech support from us with any cutter purchase. In this scenario it could have saved the OP a lot of time and frustration.

Please let us know what we can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[FatCat]

For anyone considering a Summa cutter, I would encourage you to consider purchasing the equipment from us as we have the most knowledgeable Summa techs in the industry(we used to operate as Summa and know these cutters extremely well) and you receive unlimited toll-free tech support from us with any cutter purchase. In this scenario it could have saved the OP a lot of time and frustration.

Please let us know what we can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

I will strongly vouch for Phil and his team. Every time I have ever called with a problem with our D-140 or our new 1640 (which hasn't been more than a few times in either case) his techs were able to get the problem sorted out quickly and get us back to work. Can't say enough and wouldn't hesitate to buy another piece of equipment from them!

 

[Goatshaver]

This is what's killing me on this. It's very frustrating when I'm told what I can do on my Roland I can do on my summa but it's really having a difficult time as you can tell. One was from the start of the sheet and the other was from the end of the sheet. (54" x 30"). Sorry to be upset about this but it's very frustrating.

 

[StickerGuy83]

This is what's killing me on this. It's very frustrating when I'm told what I can do on my Roland I can do on my summa but it's really having a difficult time as you can tell. One was from the start of the sheet and the other was from the end of the sheet. (54" x 30"). Sorry to be upset about this but it's very frustrating.

View attachment 147543

I own a summa d140 and two graphtec fc9000's. What I have learned with the summa and doing perf cutting decals --- blade depth, cutting strip condition, media being loaded near perfectly and pressure will determine the result. Even cutting thinner SAV, if you're trying to do a cut through perf in one pass (without using flex cut), the media is going to get pulled and it will skew. The only thing that solved this problem was dialing in the blade depth and pressure so the blade is not extended out too much, but has adequate pressure to give you the result you need. Make sure the cutting strip is good. Even looking at the strip and feeling it, it may seem as though it is ok. Most of the time, it is not. A tell tale sign will be a screeching sound while its cutting. This is from the blade holder tip rubbing against the vinyl as your cutting due to the actual blade penetrating the strip too much. This will also cause cut consistency issues, like half of a decal not wanting to pop out in certain areas. Extra pinch rollers help, but its not needed.

So to prevent the skewing, do the following:

1) replace cutting strip (often)
2) dial in your blade depth and pressure
3) make sure the media is loaded PERFECTLY
4) slow down your cutting speed
5) send the cut job to do 2 pass (not flex cut)

6) pro tip -- those summa 36 degree blades suck for perf cutting. Digiprint supplies has drag knife blades for the summa d series cutters. They're cheap and last pretty long as well. Use a 45 degree blade from them and make sure the offset is set accordingly.

The graphtec fc9000 has a dedicated perf channel. This is incredibly useful for what your doing. I've gotten a great deal on my fc9000's, much cheaper than the summa T's.
The graphtec is not only bigger, its built solid. The summa feels flimsy compared to the fc9000. The summa is also way louder than the graphtec when operating.

Some people in this forum endorse and/or sell Summa equipment exclusively. As anyone with common sense would know, they will say whatever it takes to get your business.
Take what they say with a grain of salt. Learn from your mistakes and don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.

 

[Goatshaver]

I own a summa d140 and two graphtec fc9000's. What I have learned with the summa and doing perf cutting decals --- blade depth, cutting strip condition, media being loaded near perfectly and pressure will determine the result. Even cutting thinner SAV, if you're trying to do a cut through perf in one pass (without using flex cut), the media is going to get pulled and it will skew. The only thing that solved this problem was dialing in the blade depth and pressure so the blade is not extended out too much, but has adequate pressure to give you the result you need. Make sure the cutting strip is good. Even looking at the strip and feeling it, it may seem as though it is ok. Most of the time, it is not. A tell tale sign will be a screeching sound while its cutting. This is from the blade holder tip rubbing against the vinyl as your cutting due to the actual blade penetrating the strip too much. This will also cause cut consistency issues, like half of a decal not wanting to pop out in certain areas. Extra pinch rollers help, but its not needed.

So to prevent the skewing, do the following:

1) replace cutting strip (often)
2) dial in your blade depth and pressure
3) make sure the media is loaded PERFECTLY
4) slow down your cutting speed
5) send the cut job to do 2 pass (not flex cut)

6) pro tip -- those summa 36 degree blades suck for perf cutting. Digiprint supplies has drag knife blades for the summa d series cutters. They're cheap and last pretty long as well. Use a 45 degree blade from them and make sure the offset is set accordingly.

The graphtec fc9000 has a dedicated perf channel. This is incredibly useful for what your doing. I've gotten a great deal on my fc9000's, much cheaper than the summa T's.
The graphtec is not only bigger, its built solid. The summa feels flimsy compared to the fc9000. The summa is also way louder than the graphtec when operating.

Some people in this forum endorse and/or sell Summa equipment exclusively. As anyone with common sense would know, they will say whatever it takes to get your business.
Take what they say with a grain of salt. Learn from your mistakes and don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.

Thanks for more info. I've gotten to the point where I realize the flex cut isn't any good with cutting custom cuts. I've gotten the 2-pass method to work quite well, but as you said, the blade depth has to be set just right and the pressure. I think I do need a new strip as I get a bit of variation in cutting depth on some things. I wish I would've know more about the Graphtec features before I had made this purchase cause that cut channel would probably have worked well for my circumstances. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say.

 

[StickerGuy83]

Thanks for more info. I've gotten to the point where I realize the flex cut isn't any good with cutting custom cuts. I've gotten the 2-pass method to work quite well, but as you said, the blade depth has to be set just right and the pressure. I think I do need a new strip as I get a bit of variation in cutting depth on some things. I wish I would've know more about the Graphtec features before I had made this purchase cause that cut channel would probably have worked well for my circumstances. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say.

I've never used the flex cut feature. The graphtec fc9000 is a great machine. The summa D140 is basically an entry level cutter.