Tariff on Sign Blanks?

[player]

Trump did it to take the heat off that twit Prime Minister you have who was in the headlines for dressing up himself and family like they were the Beatles visiting the Maharishi. Now he has to deal with the tariff on aluminum instead of his next outfit.

Hahaha yes. Your sociopathic liar TV phony idiot president is covering for Justin, not for the NRA.

 

[Rick]

So, I'm not going to get into any of my political leanings - I think it's a bad idea, unless they helped the aluminum and steel industry ramp up production to the point where American companies can become viable competition, while they are at it, can there be a Tariff put on Crowdsourcing sites where most of these designers are from countries where my hourly shop rate is their monthly pay... I can compete with nephew art... but a designer located in a part of the world where they are making 160 times more than me... not so much...

 

[Johnny Best]

I know I have mentioned this before and been criticized for doing so, but I compete in crowdsourcing sites for design, art and other categories. I enjoy the competition and see what people from other countries have to offer. They do a lot of the same thing many of you guys do, copy styles that are acceptable and take ideas already done and tweak it a little. I have no problem with someone trying to make a living. I do not know where these people live who are making 160 times what Rick makes. A lot of them use these outsource places as their main income and work full time at it. To me it is just a passing fancy and enjoy competing with ideas.
Also it would be hard for the US to put a tariff on a site that does not come from here but a foreign country.

 

[ikarasu]

Everything evolves. Retailers can't compete with online...doesn't mean we should tax/tarrif Amazon.

Uber is shaking up the taxi industry, self driving cars will shake up the Uber industry, it'll put long haulers out of business... etc.

90% of phone support and tech support is now down via foreign country.

A business and people need to learn to adapt. Things are changing rapidly, becoming more automated, and soon 50% of the workforce will be out of jobs. Which means 50% less consumers, so the other 50% will also feel it pretty big, and only the richest of the rich will feel the impact lightly enough not to impact there lives.

I feel like this is what trumps been doing with coal jobs, and now steel jobs. Holding onto the past, and it's going to punish many, many more than he's trying to save.

However if/when he does put the tariffs on... It'll hurt, but those affected by it will also adapt and move onto bigger and better things.

I believe in free trade / open markets with less regulation, not more. I don't think just because your Canadian, or Russian, or American, your products should get a special tax on it because you can do it "cheaper", that's stupid.

I don't see how tarrifs are any different than charging the shop next door with a flatbed printer 20% on all products sold because he's printing signs more efficiently and faster, and as a result he's putting people out of jobs. Or stores for self checkouts... Or McDonald's for mobile ordering... Etc.

Times are changing, and I've always felt America led the way. It feels like lately they're the ones going backwards, not forwards.

I'm not just talking about trump... The whole political system is a mess. There's no bipartisanship on either side. Half the country hates the other half for liking trump, and the other half hates that half for not liking trump. Its starting to feel like a civil war is on the brink of happening any day.


Maybe we should start building that wall between USA and Canada...

 

[Rick]

I know I have mentioned this before and been criticized for doing so, but I compete in crowdsourcing sites for design, art and other categories. I enjoy the competition and see what people from other countries have to offer. They do a lot of the same thing many of you guys do, copy styles that are acceptable and take ideas already done and tweak it a little. I have no problem with someone trying to make a living. I do not know where these people live who are making 160 times what Rick makes. A lot of them use these outsource places as their main income and work full time at it. To me it is just a passing fancy and enjoy competing with ideas.
Also it would be hard for the US to put a tariff on a site that does not come from here but a foreign country.

And I think I mentioned this before, if you enjoy doing it, then why not, I can see the appeal of seeing how other people do it... I design on here for pretty much for the same reason.

I said this before too, a person anywhere has a right to make a living anyway possible and if I were them I would be competing as they are.

But... the average income for a Pakistani (many on these crowdsourcing sites) make 649.97 USD annually...
The average American household with some college makes $50,000.00 annually...

If me and third world designers are competing for the same $200.00 logo... they have to win 3-4 a year to break even... I have to WIN 250 - in reality I have to win more like 300-325 as I'm taxed up the wazoo for being an independent contractor... if I win 10% of the competitions I enter, thats 2500 - 3250 logos a year - thats 55-65 logos a week - 7-9 a day. As a hobby, this means nothing because your reward is participation, comradery and an occasional win, but as a business model, it makes no sense unless it's going to pay for 1/3 of your bills for a year in one win...

This is why I have called them Design Gangbangs - not just here, but on my other design groups I frequent. Not gangbang as in street gangs... but gangbang as in Porn... except in a real gangbang the Johns get a fluff, a doink and get paid for it... In Crowdsourcing only one person gets the doink, the site host gets fluffed... the others are left to take care of themselves...

The only person who really make money is the site host... most of the larger crowdsourcing companies are American... I guess in hind site I should have started a crowdsourcing site, skimmed my 10-15% of the competitions and had third world site designers maintain the site. They no longer post their numbers but many average 8-10 million in gross sales a month. If I did a million a year, it might still be worth it if I got to run my business.

This is what most Tariffs are about... protecting against this unfair advantage but by doing so, we will end up paying for it... in my opinion, since American steel can not ramp up to make up the difference, we will be paying this tax... and yes, it would be ridiculously hard to tariff crowdsourcing and in reality a drop in the bucket compared to taxing steel...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Everything evolves. Retailers can't compete with online...doesn't mean we should tax/tarrif Amazon.

Uber is shaking up the taxi industry, self driving cars will shake up the Uber industry, it'll put long haulers out of business... etc.

90% of phone support and tech support is now down via foreign country.

A business and people need to learn to adapt. Things are changing rapidly, becoming more automated, and soon 50% of the workforce will be out of jobs. Which means 50% less consumers, so the other 50% will also feel it pretty big, and only the richest of the rich will feel the impact lightly enough not to impact there lives.

I feel like this is what trumps been doing with coal jobs, and now steel jobs. Holding onto the past, and it's going to punish many, many more than he's trying to save.

However if/when he does put the tariffs on... It'll hurt, but those affected by it will also adapt and move onto bigger and better things.

I believe in free trade / open markets with less regulation, not more. I don't think just because your Canadian, or Russian, or American, your products should get a special tax on it because you can do it "cheaper", that's stupid.

I don't see how tarrifs are any different than charging the shop next door with a flatbed printer 20% on all products sold because he's printing signs more efficiently and faster, and as a result he's putting people out of jobs. Or stores for self checkouts... Or McDonald's for mobile ordering... Etc.

Times are changing, and I've always felt America led the way. It feels like lately they're the ones going backwards, not forwards.

I'm not just talking about trump... The whole political system is a mess. There's no bipartisanship on either side. Half the country hates the other half for liking trump, and the other half hates that half for not liking trump. Its starting to feel like a civil war is on the brink of happening any day.


Maybe we should start building that wall between USA and Canada...

Your right in thinking 50% of the jobs today won't be around [in 20 years] but that's how things go. Back in the early 1900s something like 90% of jobs were farming and now thats down below 10%. Automation freed up the workforce to do something else. 50% of the jobs today will no longer exist 20 years from now but 50% new jobs will be available.

Your thinking of tariffs is a little skewed. Putting a tariff on a company that has a flatbed is not the same as companies from other countries. A company in USA that can produce an item cheaper still has to play by the same rules as the other company. When you talking about foreign company's that do stuff cheaper..the question is how and why they can do it cheaper. Do they have the same labor rules, such as minimum wage, 8 hour work day and overtime after 40 hours? Child labor? Slave labor? Do they have environmental rules like not dumping waste into rivers, pollution control etc? Is the government subsiding their costs like with fuel? All of those are an unfair advantage that an american company can't compete with... hence the reason for a tariff... to make up for the difference.

It's not that they can do it more efficiently (which maybe some can) but what kind of unfair advantage are they exploiting to make the product cheaper?

 

[ikarasu]

Your right in thinking 50% of the jobs today won't be around [in 20 years] but that's how things go. Back in the early 1900s something like 90% of jobs were farming and now thats down below 10%. Automation freed up the workforce to do something else. 50% of the jobs today will no longer exist 20 years from now but 50% new jobs will be available.

Your thinking of tariffs is a little skewed. Putting a tariff on a company that has a flatbed is not the same as companies from other countries. A company in USA that can produce an item cheaper still has to play by the same rules as the other company. When you talking about foreign company's that do stuff cheaper..the question is how and why they can do it cheaper. Do they have the same labor rules, such as minimum wage, 8 hour work day and overtime after 40 hours? Child labor? Slave labor? Do they have environmental rules like not dumping waste into rivers, pollution control etc? Is the government subsiding their costs like with fuel? All of those are an unfair advantage that an american company can't compete with... hence the reason for a tariff... to make up for the difference.

It's not that they can do it more efficiently (which maybe some can) but what kind of unfair advantage are they exploiting to make the product cheaper?

That's why I'm all for standards. Certain us companies have started to demand their foreign employees be paid a minimum wage. It took many suicides, but apple has started to check on the living / working conditions of all their Foxconn employees .They set a list of standards that must be followed... Such as vacation days, minimum pay, max hours worked, etc.

I'm sure it's all just a PR show, and who knows if it's actually being followed. However I think Countries should set a minimum standard, and only trade with countries that follow it. If your country has human rights violations... There will be no trade at all.

Tariffs are like saying we don't care if you abuse your workers, make them work for 20 hours a day for $5 a day, so long as you pay us 20% of what your selling your products for .

Tariffs do help in a way, and I do see why we have them.. but they don't go far enough. If you end the slave labor... You fix the problem of cheap material .it'll still be cheaper... Because living wage in China is a lot cheaper than living wage in America, but it won't be dirt cheap that Americans can't compete.

Pick up any product t in your house... 8/10 will say made in china. Or at least have some parts made in china. You could argue every single item imported should be taxed, so Americans have a fair playing field to make it themselves. And that is one way to go about it... But I like apples approach, even if it is just pr. If everyone who manufactured, or purchased demanded the factory paid a living wage... It'd equal the playing field much faster.

There is a new billionaire in china every 5 days. In 2014, they added 2 million, millionaires . All the wealthy people won't care about a 25% tarrif... They can just drop prices 25%, and pay their workers even less.

There's been some studies that show this tarrif will affect Canada 100x more than it'll affect China. Our labor/cost is the same as America's, America can easily compete with our prices. But it's more economical to ship steel/wood from Western Canada to Washington, that it is from East coast america to Washington. On-top of that..
You guys can't produce enough quality steel to sustain yourselves right now.

I haven't looked into teriffs much, and I'm not an economist... So maybe my viewing isnwrong / skewed. It just seems at least in this case, it'll cause a lot more problems than its solves.

 

[Johnny Best]

I also am not an economist and according to Rick I am involved with porn.
That being said, Canada produces 60% of North America's aluminum capacity. Quebec has 9 plants and British Columbia, 1 plant. US has a lot more plants but have closed up in the last few years because of competitive prices they can't touch.
China has hundreds of plants producing aluminum, in fact, they have cut back on a lot of privately held companies producing it. They have stockpiled aluminum because they produced so much. Unlike US and Canada, the Chinese government owns most of the aluminum companies.
Coal drives their plants and they buy that from North Korea.
So I understand why Trump is making tariffs and it might work to get the companies in the US to produce more, cut coal buying from NK and buy that from us, and getting people back to work.
Like most of you, we are just watching the horses run by and hope that the one we bet on is going to place. I triboxed bet MakeAmericaGreatAgain, OCanada and AreUtalking2me.
Porn is a lot better than talking about economics.

 

[ikarasu]

Trump announced a 1 month exemption for Mexico / Canada on steel / aluminum tarrif. Just enough to try and bully Canada into a better trade deal which again, I hope he does.

Us can bring $650 across the border with no taxes or fees. Canada's exemption limit is $50. It's stupidly low, and trump wants it raised. Canadian retailers are fighting it tooth and nail because they say they can't compete with American prices, and everyone will shop at us stores online, and it'll put Canadians out of business.

And it's because our government has so many import fees and tariffs, that you need to tack a good 15-20% on each item to get any proffit. Sure it might be saving jobs... But again, not a long term solution.

So while I don't agree with trump on a lot of things, I hope he evens out the trading field with Canada!

 

[rjssigns]

Found this tidbit regarding tariffs.

• Elon Musk believes China isn't playing fair in the car trade with the U.S.
• The auto executive says the Asian country puts a 25 percent import duty on American cars, while the U.S. only does 2.5 percent for Chinese cars in return.
• "I am against import duties in general, but the current rules make things very difficult. It's like competing in an Olympic race wearing lead shoes," Musk tweets.

 

[Johnny Best]

Chinese cars are here...
Chinese-Made Cars Arrive in U.S. Showrooms

 

[Karen Saros]

I think only Jesus or Oprah Winfrey can help this thread! LOL

 

[bpfohler]

I see how it is... Now you guys are trying to trick Canada into paying for a wall!

You can have our maple syrup. But try to take our poutine, ketchup chips or our coffeecrisp chocolate bars, and we'll be going to war.

You guys will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.

Canada is paying for the wall?? How'd Donald the draft dodger get you to do that?

 

[Gino]

Canada is paying for the wall?? How'd Donald the draft dodger get you to do that?

Ya know, when stating things which are not fact or true, one should not be making up lies about things such as this. Go get your facts from a reliable source and try saying that bullsh!t again.

 

[bpfohler]

Ya know, when stating things which are not fact or true, one should not be making up lies about things such as this. Go get your facts from a reliable source and try saying that bullsh!t again.

Oooh, bone spur! Give me a break, Trump has never lied and your the only one with the facts????

 

[Gino]

Nowhere did I say I am the only one with facts. I merely said YOU should not spread lies and untruths. By the way..... during the VietNam War, I know lotsa people who got deferred due to being in college and also due to bone spurs..... among other problems. Where were you... during the VietNam War ??

 

[bob]

Nowhere did I say I am the only one with facts. I merely said YOU should not spread lies and untruths. By the way..... during the VietNam War, I know lotsa people who got deferred due to being in college and also due to bone spurs..... among other problems. Where were you... during the VietNam War ??

Doubtful it was born yet. Regardless of when it hit the planet, most likely it wasn't eligible for a draft that it could dodge.

I think someone should mention Hitler or Nazis, thereby invoking Godwin's law and thus drive a stake through the heart of this thread.

 

[bpfohler]

Nowhere did I say I am the only one with facts. I merely said YOU should not spread lies and untruths. By the way..... during the VietNam War, I know lotsa people who got deferred due to being in college and also due to bone spurs..... among other problems. Where were you... during the VietNam War ??

How can you call my post bs lies, he had 5 deferments. One was for bad feet, bone spurs! Poor baby.
By the way, during Vietnam I was in kindergarten!

 

[ikarasu]

Some people arent meant to fight wars. I'm sure if Trump, or Bush, or Obama opened a draft to fight Aghanistan, or Russia, haldf the people you know would try to dodge the draft also... I don't fault him on that.

Disrespecting people who did fight, by saying "I like people who didn't get caught" to Mccain... That parts pretty bad though. I don't blame people who don't want to goto war, but at least respect the people who do.

Anyways... what does any of this have to do with the tarrifs!

 

[bpfohler]

I agree ikarasu but when someone accuses you of making up bs and tells you to get the facts right it’s time to call them out.
None of what I said was a lie, gino is just a little sensitive because I call POTUS a draft dodger.
If it makes him feel better I think Hilary should be in jail. Still doesn’t excuse Donald for being a dumba**.