Tired of Being told how much $$ you should make?

[MikePatterson]

I am the highest shop in town. When people start haggling me over price I start raising the price.

on a side note:
We were mainly in the motorcycle building and parts supply business up till about 10 years ago, but I couldn't compete with the (new at the time) internet stores. They ruined the aftermarket parts business in general. Most sell the same parts as us at very low margins hoping to sell tons of parts.
I even busted the largest parts distributor in the US with a front company selling at 2% to 5% above wholesale on ebay. They still make their margins but cut out the retailer.

Face facts, the internet is not going anywhere. Am I bitter, hell no. We adapted and shifted our business model and now make a good living. We still custom paint and fab bikes and cars but also have the biggest sign shop in town and can handle anything that comes our direction. We are more like coach builders around here than just a crank it out shop, so I have some leverage on my customer base.

We live in a "gotta have it now, and cheap" society. Keep your head down and your *** moving and you'll be fine.

 

[Locals Find!]

I am the highest shop in town. When people start haggling me over price I start raising the price.

on a side note:
We were mainly in the motorcycle building and parts supply business up till about 10 years ago, but I couldn't compete with the (new at the time) internet stores. They ruined the aftermarket parts business in general. Most sell the same parts as us at very low margins hoping to sell tons of parts.
I even busted the largest parts distributor in the US with a front company selling at 2% to 5% above wholesale on ebay. They still make their margins but cut out the retailer.

Face facts, the internet is not going anywhere. Am I bitter, hell no. We adapted and shifted our business model and now make a good living. We still custom paint and fab bikes and cars but also have the biggest sign shop in town and can handle anything that comes our direction. We are more like coach builders around here than just a crank it out shop, so I have some leverage on my customer base.

We live in a "gotta have it now, and cheap" society. Keep your head down and your *** moving and you'll be fine.

Good advice. Just gets frustrating when it happens over and over because you know your time is getting wasted on BS when you could be spent working with someone decent who was actually willing to pay.

Our new business expansion has very little in the way of competition so, I think I will be able to pull this business back onto the right track and headed in the right direction again. Where we don't have to deal with this BS. Going to set ourselves apart from the Broker pack and the regular shops.

 

[grafXnj]

adtech, are you retail or wholesale / trade only, you quoted ----I don't tell my plumber that he should only charge me $25.00 for a service call because he only took 5 minutes to fix a problem I didn't know how to do myself, or my mechanic that did my oil change that I am only paying him for the $8.00 worth of oil he put in my car.-------- your plumber / mechanic went to a wholesale trade only distributor, and he purchases his materials at a wholesale price because he he a legit business and has that right to mark up his service to the end user, and has proper paperwork proving that, you then get charged retail for a service that you need and most likely may not know enough about it to do yourself therefore paying retail, so should legit sign shops who have been in business 14 years and use wholesale vendors that are set up for trade only, have the right to question pricing increases when we all are in the same business and know what everything costs and when prices go up because we ll use the same vendors anyway, or better yet how about when you see your retail customers( those designers who work out of there bedroom laptop and have not 1 piece of business paperwork ) all of a sudden not coming into your shop anymore but are using the same trade only vendors and getting the same prices as someone in business 14 years and is very current and knowledgeable about products and pricing and cost increases, I 100% percent agree that we all need to make money, but when my customers turn into my competitors that really turns me off. recently in a shop i heard a customers name was on phone call, and when i was pulling away low and behold on his 10 speed bike was my old customer ( same first name maybe coincedence or did he see my 18 x 24 door magnet parked out front) on his cell talking 1 building away. it just seems when times get tough wholesale and for trade-only don't mean s--t you know what i mean,

what do other sign shop feel about there relations with their wholesale trade only vendors

as far as the final sale to my retail customer its none of there business what my costs are i will try to get as much as i can from a customer with some signs or lettering that i may only see a couple time a year, not my distributors and wholesalers that i see couple times a week
sorry if you dont agree but when every business card designer with a cracked photoshop version sitting in there apartment gets the same pricing as me all we will have are competitors not customers, then who will the trade only guys sell to when the local sign industry is just saturated and there are no more customers left just small time competitors that dont last and sold there stuff dirt cheap anyway just to get through college or until they get back into the carer they were layed off from

sorry for the rant but this one caught my eye and was brought to my attention by a friend

 

[artbot]

i do wholesale only. my biggest issue with money is discounts. ultimately because the producer is on the beginning of the markup, the request is made "can you do a little better than that? this client ..." okay. so i decided that it's a big order and maybe that week i'm not booked. problem is the buyer of the wholesale goods never feels the urge to discount. i've politely asked "yes, we can split the disocunt" but ultimately, the wholesaler never gets to see the invoice. so everyone's costs and margins stay in place but mine. can you imagine requiring your buyer to send a copy of the final bill of sale to the supplier? it's "none of my business" but it is completely "my business" a supplier and dealer are somewhat partners.

if anyone has a tactful way to discuss this with a buyer and end up with proof that both sided margins were squeezed, i'd love to hear it. maybe there's an official business terminology that i haven't run across.

 

[RogueRoller]

As a sign equipment manufacture I hear this almost daily. There is always someone that feels that you charge to much. Most likely they have no idea what your over head is as a hole. So what it comes down to is a fair price that you stick to. We all created our business for our own reasons. Be assured no business man creates a business to trade dollars for dollars.

Part of being in business is to grow and if you are not growing you would be better off as a employee.

 

[Colin]

...the request is made "can you do a little better than that?

Next time, say: "Better for you or for me?"

 

[artbot]

the ones that in my experience that you can't "do better" on are the big projects. usually rush, want extensive proposal work. just last month i did a $38,000 project (my portion was $19,500). i gave them $2500 off (my original bill was $22k). of all projects going back a year, this was the least profitable. not just because it had a lot of details, but over the holidays no one wanted to work, chemicals wouldn't etch properly under 40 degrees, details were left off the invoice that i eventually got stuck paying for (verbals that were discussed then suddenly they were "promised" by me???)

from now on if the project is larger than my shop's usual project (my pieces usually go for $8-10k. i'm basically a one man shop.), i will probably surcharge with a "big project" surcharge around 10%.

be wary that it will probably not be a windfall but a downfall instead. it will show the weaknesses in your production space, supply chain, tools, everything suddenly is being over nighted in, sub contractors, part time help, everything. total chaos.

to add to the story, i have to drive out to san antonio to reset the adhesive. why? because of the rush, again. it was very cold the day i laid it up, i had to use glue with a 7 hour cure (not flexible slow stuff). i get it out of the freezing trailer, install and two weeks later, it's having thermal expansion issues in the warm toasty office. so i continue to subtract from my final profit on this project.

 

[Tigertron]

The Internet is evil and is destroying all business. Wanna really feel bad try doing a bid job and being bumped by the low-ball bidder with no clue. He may fail but not before setting a pressident that all subsequent bidders will try to match.

I feel your pain.

 

[Locals Find!]

grafxnj - To answer your question I guess the best way to describe me on her is as a broker. Even though I don't like that term as I know more than most brokers and know my way around a shop. I sell Retail to small businesses & Specialize in Real Estate.

I do have a few wholesale clients but, they are mainly salespeople who are 10-99d and it was just easier to set them up that way because they aren't employees.

 

[grafXnj]

adtchia, knowing your way around the shop, and knowing the products and prices do you understand what i meant and feel , these were customers that had a computer and a business card and started selling signs, easy for me, but i didnt give them wholesale, just a retail discount knowing they would not be able to produce any forms, so i would give them a return customer discount on the retail, but now they are getting the same priciing as legit sign shops and legit brokers, when we know they are not legit, its very bad up here in nj i always hear at the conventions that there is enough sign and shirt work for all sign shops and brokers, but these are a new category of competition.

 

[Locals Find!]

adtchia, knowing your way around the shop, and knowing the products and prices do you understand what i meant and feel , these were customers that had a computer and a business card and started selling signs, easy for me, but i didnt give them wholesale, just a retail discount knowing they would not be able to produce any forms, so i would give them a return customer discount on the retail, but now they are getting the same priciing as legit sign shops and legit brokers, when we know they are not legit, its very bad up here in nj i always hear at the conventions that there is enough sign and shirt work for all sign shops and brokers, but these are a new category of competition.

I totally see where you are coming from. I don't have a problem with these guys too much as long as they maintain market pricing. If they start lowballing then I will make sure to give them friggin hell. I don't care for lowballers at all. When I find lowballers I first try to educate them about proper pricing and not screwing up the market. If that doesn't work they will sometimes experience car/tire trouble, or unknowingly put flyers all around town with prices so low they possible can't even buy materials at that price. Then I usually don't have any more trouble for some reason.

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

When I find lowballers I first try to educate them about proper pricing and not screwing up the market. If that doesn't work they will sometimes experience car/tire trouble, or unknowingly put flyers all around town with prices so low they possible can't even buy materials at that price. Then I usually don't have any more trouble for some reason.

Are you 12 or something? Some of the stuff you come up with is pretty embarrassing. Step out of the sandbox please will you! Please get a clue..

 

[Locals Find!]

Are you 12 or something? Some of the stuff you come up with is pretty embarrassing. Step out of the sandbox please will you! Please get a clue..

While you may not like my methods they are effective. You have your nice respectable ways of doing things up North I am in the South we have a different way of handling things around here when someone starts messing with our livelihoods. I don't tolerate lowballers. They are scum that make things even harder than they already are here.

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

While you may not like my methods they are effective. You have your nice respectable ways of doing things up North I am in the South we have a different way of handling things around here when someone starts messing with our livelihoods. I don't tolerate lowballers. They are scum that make things even harder than they already are here.

Please you are not going to come out with the southern bad *** card and be taken as a serious business man and legit contributor to the industry

With tactfulness that you display it is amazing you even are in business though I doubt it is a thriving one if you have to worry so much of what is around you and not focus on growing your own piece of the pie....

Maybe you simply cannot compete.... You do not have the resources, intelligence or strategy to keep up..

I would like to know a couple things.

How long have you been in business?
What is your experience?
What is your companies annual sales?
What has been your growth % year to year?
What legitimate /positive contributions have you made to your industry?

Please help me understand... Also for the record I could not give a crap about your silly, childlike and all around stupid methods. Just makes you look like a bigger clown!

 

[sar bossier]

While you may not like my methods they are effective. You have your nice respectable ways of doing things up North I am in the South we have a different way of handling things around here when someone starts messing with our livelihoods. I don't tolerate lowballers. They are scum that make things even harder than they already are here.

I resent this remark, as I am in the south as well, and WHERE I AM, we treat others with respect and KILL em with sugary sweetness. Not everyone from the south treats their customers as you do, so don't label the SOUTH for your PERSONAL faults. In fact, even for the south, you are an embarrasing exception, NOT the rule.

 

[Gino]

Addie, if you really did this to ALL the many people you claim harass and lowball you.... your whole county would be shut down from broken down vehicles. From the end of January, where you were complaining it happens all the time and you're tired of it happening so much to now you take care of those kind..... do you ever take time to stop and listen to your ridiculous statements or accusations ?? NOTICE, I didn't say lies.

How can you go from an endless torment of competition or bad customers to you are now dealing with it and making money.

You never cease to amaze me, but then again...... what do you expect when you put two negatives together ??
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[HulkSmash]

I don't tolerate lowballers. They are scum that make things even harder than they already are here.

Coming from the guy who's advertising, on his website, 1 yard sign, with stake - no minimum for 10 dollars. ---> http://adtechia.com/

Do you have your own car tire problems?!?!? Do you think before you speak?

Explain to me - how is a broker the "#1 Print & Sign Shop in Lee County" <-- is that a self inflicted title?

 

[Gino]

Coming from the guy who's advertising, on his website, 1 yard sign, with stake - no minimum for 10 dollars. ---> http://adtechia.com/

Do you have your own car tire problems?!?!? Do you think before you speak?

Explain to me - how is a broker the "#1 Print & Sign Shop in Lee County" <-- is that a self inflicted title?

Nope..... his worm did that ;-)

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

This is going to climb me to drink.

 

[sar bossier]

This is going to climb me to drink.

hahaha ... I love those street artists that have the talent to do that! Here's to ya