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Tough Call......................

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by Gino, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    This has actually bothered me for some time, but with the latest events unfolding….. I was just wondering what some of you may think about what’s been happening.

    Penn State has suffered from the selfish acts of Sandusky.

    For me, I can’t believe how one man’s habits have touched the lives of not just those kids/now adults, but the thousands if not millions who have attended Penn state since 1998 til present day.

    Not only have his horrible habits and perverse ways hurt those kids, but the kids who knew nothing of it, due to a widespread cover-up by the faculty and some really high end people, but all the kids who are there now and suffering due to all of these sanctions.

    A once, well-thought of school is going to suffer because of one horrible person and his cronies who tried to cover it up and make it go away.

    One person has completely turned this school inside out because of his pathetic needs.

    How do some of you see this for the future generations ??



    :thankyou:
     
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  2. CS-SignSupply-TT

    CS-SignSupply-TT Very Active Member

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    +1 sigh..............................................
     
  3. Replicator

    Replicator Major Contributor

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    I agree 100% with everything you have said . . .
     
  4. sar bossier

    sar bossier Very Active Member

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    Sad, Tragic, Horrible ... maybe time ... A LOT of time ...
     
  5. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    For starters the whole situation is bad mostly for the people abused and their families. I can’t imagine what any of them went through or are going through now.
    not to make light of the situation because it is very bad and everyone involved at the very least should do some serious jail time. the ncaa punishes the school for the acts of 1 person of the faculty or coaching staff it's just the way they handle things. coaches have had wins taken away for cheating, lost scholarships, teams suspended, loss of bowl games and so on but a lot of the time they find out about these issues after the people are gone (not always but it does happen a lot) it is definitely unfair for the students and players to suffer for what the others covered up so many years ago and the main guy who covered it up is now dead. not sure i have a solution to make the punishment fit the proper people but i think the main thing the ncaa is trying to do is send a message to try and prevent anything like this happening again.
     
  6. ucmj22

    ucmj22 Very Active Member

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    you say "one person" alot, but this was a lot bigger than one person. this involved the top echelon of the ahteletic program for more than a decade.
    I think its funny that if the NCAA finds out you have been paying your students to play football, your program gets the death penalty (No games at all for at least a year), but if you cover up a child sex ring, you just dont get any bowl games and they retroactively strip away your wins... really... removing wins retroactively is like saying, hey, all those girls you slept with in college, we are retroactively removing them from your slept with list. Its all ready been done, the games are over nobody cares about the wins except people who care about Paterno.
    I think the best course of action they could have taken would have been to remove, dishonorably, everyone in the program involved but leave the program (innocent players) intact, then have them donate all proceeds from ticket sales concessions and merchandise for the next however many years to some organization like big brothers big sisters of america, or whatever. that would have done more good than this ridiculous punishment they handed down.
     
  7. slipperyfrog

    slipperyfrog Active Member

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    Money grab by the NCAA.
     
  8. FatCat

    FatCat Very Active Member

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    Agree with just about everything here - however, still not sure the "1 man" had everything to do with it as has been implied. But, I feel the message they are sending to other schools is a strong one; "Clean up your own messes when you find out about them, or face worse consequences."
     
  9. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    I agree with Gino. Punishing young kids by taking away 40 scholarships and sanctioning their games. What does that prove? No different than punishing your kids for your mistakes. Stupid.
    All those involved with the cover-up should be fired, stripped of all retirement benefits, and made to register as sex offenders if you want to send a clear message.

    The rest is just a money grab by the NCAA IMHO.

    I am waiting for news when the first civil suit hits Penn State.
     
  10. James Burke

    James Burke Being a grandpa is more fun than working

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    *Insert here: school, church, movie theater, ...you name it...stuff happens just about everywhere.

    Sorry to say, this kind of trouble is not really a "new" problem at all...it's as old as time itself.

    In our day and age, $ensationalism $ells...big time.

    I'm all for the "big hammer" coming down on PS. And tough luck for anybody caught in its wake, we all suffer for other people's responsibility...why should it be any different here?

    Anybody in leadership ought to know that their behavior affects the whole institution, and as the old saying goes..."everything rises...or falls on leadership.


    JB​
     
  11. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    it was covered up by many but i think one person is why they covered it up. from what i understand joe pretty much ran the school. i didn't go to penn state but from talking to people who did and reports you hear that is the way it was. i am pretty sure if i saw what was going on, like the one asst. coach ( i think that was his position) and reported it to my superior and they did nothing i would keep pushing the situation till something was done. i guess the one thing we seem to agree on is that punishing the kids that go there now is unfair but again i am not sure what the correct punishment is. Sandusky is in jail, others lost jobs and i would imagine all the people mentioned in the investigation will have civil law suits up the A** and possibly some criminal charges. Not sure what else you can do ..??
     
  12. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    The reason for saying 'one person'... is because it was just Sandusky who carried out the horrible deeds and conducted them in school, home and who knows where else ??

    He alone is guilty of hurting those kids and then to get even more fodder..... then creating the Second Mile to trap even more prey, while everyone else thought he was doing good.

    Heck, he was molesting his own adopted kids when they were small. The only other totally 100% guilty person is his wife. Heck, my wife will check on me if I'm out on the porch too long with the cats. A wife... or anybody in the home..... does not let you go for hours on end in a sound proof room alone with a little boy. Well, maybe once, but not as many times as she did. Oh yeah, maybe Micheal Jackson could say a few words here. :covereyes:

    Now, the others of the faculty and coaching arenas are guilty in covering up something, they probably didn't know it was so out of hand, but anytime you allow an innocent child.... boy or girl be raped over and over again and turn your head and say you did what the book says you have to do.... well, that's just a frickin' coward. These cowards tried to brush it under the rug and hope it would go away. They were more afraid of losing their jobs than protecting those poor kids. Coward, that's all they are.... cowards.

    I understand, some people get flustered and can't figure out what to do, but ALL OF THEM ?? For how frickin' long ??

    Nope, they should have the book thrown at them... and them alone.

    I realize messages are being sent, but it also probably means Penn State will suffer as a school fiercely.
     
  13. Bigdawg

    Bigdawg Just Me

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    Even as horrific as this was - you are making excuses "they probably didn't know it was so out of hand." If they saw it ONE TIME - it was out of hand. It's that culture that somehow the sports dept of any college is above everyone else because they generate income for the school that allowed this to happen. These coaches and sports "stars" get a pat on the back and a wink - "don't do it again" if something happens. This was Penn State - but you can bet it is not the only program that has had some problems. Theirs were just so prevalent and deep - there was no hiding it anymore.

    As well they should. I feel for the students, but ANY member of the faculty or administration SHOULD hang their head in shame. It's not like it was unknown that this type of behaviour was going on, yet no one - not one teacher, not one person anywhere pushed the issue.

    I'm sorry - well not really - but if I see someone molesting a kid I really don't give a damn about losing my job. IMHO Penn State got less than they deserved. Their whole football program should have been shut down. Period.

    This will affect the future generations just like the priest scandals or any other scandal of this nature would. It will ruin a lot of lives of those involved, but no one will worry about that. The focus will be on how poor Penn State will recover. They don't deserve an ounce of sympathy.
     
  14. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Stacy......

    I'm afraid you are taking what I say totally out of context.


    You highlighted one part of a sentence and then rejected the exact same thing I said and made it your own. What da fug ??

    I'm not making any excuses for anyone. I think they should all go down..... but not the school.

    The school did nothing wrong and by the school, I mean all the kids, teachers, professors or whatever that had no idea due to a cover up. How the heck can you condemn the masses for something they knew nothing about. Are they psychic ??

    You are actually punishing a group...... for something they had nothing to do with.


    That's like saying your family will suffer because you did something bad..... 15 years ago.
    Yes, they might suffer due to the problem/situation, but they shouldn't be punished for your wrong-doings.

    Nope, you're throwing way too much crap into this which has nothing to do with the core problem.

    One guy did a whole heck of a lot wrong over a period of 35 years or so. Some others tried to cover it up, whether they knew the truth or not, they just purposely tried to cover the bad boy. Sh!t blew up. Why does the school fall, if they knew nothing.

    The core group of wrong-doers is at fault, not the students, curriculum and student body.


    Sorry, you're off base at least with what I said.
     
  15. slipperyfrog

    slipperyfrog Active Member

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    Punish the sports program even if it means the elimination of such program but not the students being educated or other programs.

    Why should they fall and have their school destroyed when they had nothing to do with it? Fire and charge every last person that did have an involvement no matter how high up. The fine by the NCAA is an unhindered BS money grab. I do not think the NCAA should be pocketing the money. They are corrupt enough. Put the so called fine into "scholastic" scholarships for actual students(not athletes) or donate it to charities.

    Just my 2c+2
     
  16. anotherdog

    anotherdog Very Active Member

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    this is not about the abuse, this is not even about the cover-up. It is a message to the rest of the universities with any sports program.

    Frankly this was light. They still have a team and a program. The good players will likely be taken by other teams and Penn State will be remembered.

    it IS sad that innocents have to pay some of the price, but it is far more important that nobody (University) is tempted to repeat this conduct.

    Frankly there should be jail for the people who took part in the cover-up, yes even the janitor who saw a criminal act and didnt report it.
     
  17. Bigdawg

    Bigdawg Just Me

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    Gino - that's the problem - virtually every teacher, professor and whatever knew about the rumours. The ONLY victim here are the students who attended the school. No one ounce of sympathy for any teacher or admin. This was the worst kept secret in that everyone knew and no one did anything.

    Wasn't trying to single out you at all Gino - but you qualified what you said with "it got out of hand" My point was that one time is out of hand. Like I said - everyone pretty much knew. There may have been one or two teachers or professors that hadn't heard about it.. but IMHO that's probably about it.

    I feel for the kids attending the school. Hopefully they can transfer somewhere where they are respected and safe. Penn State ain't it.
     
  18. mikefine

    mikefine Member

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    Stacy: Where are you coming up with the information that virtually every teacher and professor knew about the rumors?

    I don’t get the punishment. Joe Pa is in the grave, the university president is gone, and
    Sandusky is in jail. The cancer has been removed.

    The ruling serves no purpose. The lost revenue will probably prevent and tens of thousands (maybe more) of students from getting a good state college education.

    Not to mention the affect on the local economy, which is going to be staggering. As a small example, I was just in a store on the Pa line with Penn State shirts and sweatshirts sitting on the shelf -- with no buyers. Why should a small gift shop store be punished? Why should the printer (our industry) of the shirts be punished as well.

    We don’t live in a bubble. Bad things happen to good people. But to punish an entire university, and to some degree the entire state, for the actions of a few is just
    simply ridiculous.
     
  19. Banners Signs Etc.

    Banners Signs Etc. Active Member

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    my question is..Why didn't that one coach with the red hair beat the living daylights out of some old man that was raping a child right in front of him, let alone simply passing it along to people who he knew would do nothing

    ...he is as guilty as anyone else.

    A simple HEY! WHAT THE FUx?! would have probably sufficed
     
  20. genericname

    genericname Active Member

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    That's the crux of what's referred to as "rape culture". It was thought for a while that it was just old world thinking to sweep things like this under the rug, or that abuse wasn't "polite conversation". Turns out it's more prevalent than we would have liked to have thought, as this kind of attitude still presents itself today.
     
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