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Various Sign Making Questions

Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
1)I see some signs mounted to exterior walls with no visible hardware or fasteners showing. How is this accomplished?

Depends on the sign and mounting conditions. Signcraft magazine is a good place to start getting tips on sign making and mounting. Some blind mount detail is explained in the book "SIGN STRUCTURES AND FOUNDATIONS: A Guide for Designers and Estimators"

2)Im looking for the best places to outsource some printing. I have found a few companies through searching the forums, but would appreciate any suggestions.

Outsourcing for :
Sandblasted signs
Printed Banners ( I read Creative Banner seems to be popular)
Printed Vinyl
Routed Signs and Letters

We have a great set of vendors here, if you are picky about color, let them know upfront... most printers just like to press print so be expected to pay a higher price, for letters, most people go to Gemini. I bid out my design work to local companies because we have strict contractor conditions and I like to know who's butt i need to kick in when they jack up a job. Your state is a little looser on what they require for contracting. Some of the signs you are asking about may require some insurance, engineering and permitting. I would check with your local city, and county about that. I would also make sure they are made to your states building code. Most signs have a code stuck to it. I would take a little time to learn that.

3) Painting MDO board... I have read conflicting reports on what types of paint and primers to use. Any advice on this?

I would do a search on this site. I prefer automotive, but have worked at shops where they used latex to enamels....

>NO TRADE SECRETS WERE REVEALED IN THIS MESSAGE<
 
10sacer

10sacer

New Member
What?!

Please tell me that you don't think that I believe Al Gore invented the internet?

Sarcasm...
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
CE I am the first person to say "from my perspective".

I work or have worked with all of the sign franchises, I even helped develop the operating procedures for one and have trained many new franchisees. The differences that I see are first of all we are dealing primarily with consumable signs and for the most part no installations. With franchise operations there is a pricing structure in place. There is also a support network. But even with all of the support I see a tremendous amount of franchisees fail as well and in my experience the most succesful franchise owners that I have seen are actually the second or third owners (i had observed this many times but did not realize until grad school that this is somewhat common where the third owner of a business is the most successful). I would also add that I know MANY franchise owners that were once independent sign shop owners and simply were never profitable, many of them were great craftsmen but lacked any business acumen, they needed set policies and procedures.

When I left my family business I was a journeyman but I didn't even know what I didn't know about business. I saw myself making the same business mistakes that I saw my father make as he slowly ruined a 77yr old established sign company. I made all of the common mistakes..lowering prices to bring in more business, complete and total lack of a business plan, etc etc. So I will go a step further to say that again in my opinion there are many skilled craftsmen that shouldn't be in business either (I was one of them but I recognized where I was failing and took long hard steps to educate myself and overcome those shortcomings...my point is that there is much more to putting all of the parts necessary to become successful than simply asking a couple questions on the internet and to simplify what it takes to operate a successful sign company to that level is not only laughable in my opinion but also disrespectful to those who have gone through the process and these people are now asking for guidance)..look at how many are simply scaping by, look at how many would make better money at a regularly hourly job (and there are MANY), look at how many that try as hard as they can simply are never profitable and some of these guys are the best sign people I know they are great troubleshooters, great installers, great designers..the list goes on and they can't make it. So when I see people with no experience ready to jump into the arena well I'm sorry from what I have seen the chips are stacked against most of them being successful.
 
A

andy

New Member
signmeup said:
Can you say,"Tangent"?
Click to expand...

To be honest the now obviously lighthearted association between Albert and t'internet is the only thing which caught my eye... the rest of this thread is the same old same old.

Newbie thinks signs are easy, newbie wants t'internet to be mother, father and comfort blanket.

Old timers go nuts at cheek of said newbie. Uncomfortable truths are proffered and firmly rejected.

Epic argument ensues, nothing gets resolved, interest and will to live slowly wanes.
 
signmeup

signmeup

New Member
I know what you mean andy. Maybe Fred should just delete the "Newbie Forum". Hey...how about not allowing access to the newbie forum once you've been a member for 2 years? That would keep the old timers' from getting their knickers in a knot every time some poor deer wanders into the headlights... and save a lot of bandwidth on pointless yammering. (like this)
 
M

mark galoob

New Member
as a trade we are going to be bombarded in the next few years with photo 'professionals' who add consumable signs to their offerings, the wheels are already in motion, with printer manufacturers offering consumable contracts (where they agree to spend x amount of dollars per year and are given the equipment that we have to purchase) and to be honest the equipment in our trade compared to the photo industry is cheap. my concerns are not about anyone making corrugated signs and banners but it isn't going to take long until they start entertaining the idea and customer requests to install other signs...this is where i am concerned.

how many sign folks have put printing into their mix? how many folks on this site print business cards? even if its farming them out? that has nothing to do with signs but i personally know several sign companies in the area that do this. Dan, i honestly dont know what kind of business person you are, but i have met lots of people in my life, and as an ex medic, i have scraped my fair share of them up off the pavement, or carpet or side of a wall or what ever. the point is professional behavior is just that. behavior. it has nothing to do with how much time you have spent in the industry.

business is business. 90% of business DO NOT succeed. it has nothing to do with how much experience you have in the sign industry. there are all kinds of variables that lower your rate of failure and experience prob helps but is not the end all. in this economy, NOTHING you knew in the past will help you. its totally different.

as far as Melissa goes, wide format digital printing ie...signs...is completely compatible with what she is doing now. if i were in her shoes, with her customer base, i would be thinking the exact same thing...oh wait...hmm...that is similar to what i have done...marrying a print shop to a sign shop. This is a no brainer.

my original point still stands. the "bullies" or "newbie police" or what ever you call yourselves. i call it like i see it, and i see you bullying newbies on this site all the time because competition SCARES the crap out of you. and in this economy it should...:Coffee:

mark galoob
 
C

CentralSigns

New Member
What's your point bringing a dead thread back that left such a bitter taste in your mouth. Just another chance for you to bully some of "newbie police" or your fellow sign makers as I would call them, all over again. Or maybe your not done throwing it back in our faces. Your a real piece of work aren't you. And explain to me how does a small town business on one side of the country compete with another small business in the other side of the country. Give me a break. Grow up! I'll probably regret hitting the send button, but you piss me off.
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
mark galoob said:
competition SCARES the crap out of you. and in this economy it should...:Coffee:

mark galoob
Click to expand...

this statement of yours shows you have NO idea what in the world you are talking about. I sold my sign company years ago and now I work with a very select few sign companies who are serious about building their companies into profitable self supporting non owner reliant businesses versus what the majority of sign people have done which is create a job for themselves (and in many instances not that great of a paying job). It doesn't scare me a bit, in fact if I wasn't selective about the companies that I work with the more sign companies there are would be a great situation for me..unfortunately I am contacted by sign companies every week that simply put are failing and have very little chance of changing that reality around unless they are willing to do some very difficult hard work..most are not willing to do that work and they fail or continue to flounder rotating money and barely scraping by. I see the realities of people that shouldnt be self employed constantly, there is no magic answer and I sure the hell am not going to tell everyone that they should just jump right in there's great money to make..heck it's easy haha.

I am going to call it as I see it as well Mark and from everything I've seen you 'contribute' my money is that you are one of these people. Someone who has simply created a mediocre job for themselves...at best.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
as far as Melissa goes, wide format digital printing ie...signs...is completely compatible with what she is doing now.
Click to expand...

Wide format printing is not sign making.

It is just wide format printing.


marrying a print shop to a sign shop. This is a no brainer.
Click to expand...

Printing is not sign making. It is just printing.
 
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