What is legal?

[bob]

I agree with Visual.If you delivered every thing that was agreed on and they are not paying go take your sign down. I've done it before and I'll do it again.Never had a problem and never heard of anyone having a problem.Let them take you to court and explain to a judge"he took back the sign I didn't pay for"

And what have you gained? You didn't get paid and you're not likely to ever be paid. You now possess a product that is unusable by anyone save the place for which it was originally fashioned. Is momentarily feeling better about the situation, perhaps feeling like some sort of tough guy, worth exposing yourself to possible criminal action against you?

Moreover, whether or not the sign was paid for will have a whole hell of a lot less impact on any criminal proceedings against you than you might think. An excuse for a crime is not generally held by the criminal court system to be justification for that crime. Good luck.

 

[fixtureman]

You could send them a certified letter to pay or be sent to a collection agency, include the due invoice and a self addressed stamped envelope. after 30 days call the collection agency ( they will harrass them until payment is made).

Here if a collection agency calls you all you have to do is say that you want no more contact from them and they can not call or harrass you.

 

[royster13]

Here if a collection agency calls you all you have to do is say that you want no more contact from them and they can not call or harrass you.

Typically laws like that do not apply to collection of business debts.....

 

[bikecomedy]

Here if a collection agency calls you all you have to do is say that you want no more contact from them and they can not call or harrass you.

This is correct but not working with them and doing this makes them choose the other methods available to collect without contact by phone. They can still write you. If they can collect because you are a viable business they will advise you in writing that they are suing you for the claim since you will not work with them by phone. It just goes down hill from here....always fun to have the sheriff or local authority come in and tap your till while customers are in the office... by the way you can do all this for yourself without a collection agency.

 

[tim99]

Hello everyone thanks for all your comments (and yes even the scolding's) I ended up covering up there sign with a large blank banner and some rope. a few hours latter I got a call promising me payment next Friday.... this is the first time I have heard from them in months so hopefully this will work out.

 

[Techman]

You now possess a product that is unusable by anyone save the place for which it was originally fashioned

Yes, and the dead beat will not benefit from the FREE use of the sign makers work either. I would rather have that panel in my shop hanging on the wall with every one asking why it is there.. It is much more valuable on my wall after explaining why it is there rather than have it hanging on his place for FREE.

 

[phototec]

When you don't pay fr your car, they come and take it back.

If they don't pay for the sign, go and get!

[video=youtube;yZfwMXevraU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZfwMXevraU&list=PLF72F8F8658C5707E[/video]

 

[WildWestDesigns]

When you don't pay fr your car, they come and take it back.

If they don't pay for the sign, go and get!

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZfwMXevraU&list=PLF72F8F8658C5707E[/video]

You do realize there are some differences in repo a car don't you?

Typically there is language in the contract that stipulates to that (rather you read the contract or not), you actually signed a document that says that repo'ing can (and will) happen if you are delinquent. I don't see why some are just against adding simple language like that into your contracts (but please avoid the colorful language like "emergency repairs", you might as well not have a repo clause if your going to call it something like that depending on your jurisdiction).

There are certain instances when you have an illegal repossession as well. They have to go through notification process (which actually means notifying you that they will take it after x amount of time, I don't see this one being followed by some in this thread). Sometimes that's up to 20 days after notification to give the customer time to pay before they can send you a right to cure letter (certified mail) Also, consider, you can't break into someone's garage to take their vehicle (or if it's locked behind a fence etc). In other words, can't commit a crime in order to do the repo. This would be the same if you are trying to take a sign that is considered a part of the property once it's installed.

Quite a lot of recovery agents have been shot legally in the process of repo'ing vehicles (or other items), because they were doing it the illegal way and were caught by the owner.


Oh, since you're in Texas (and I'm a 6th generation native of, although I do live up north now), I thought you would like this:

"Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."



Now, 3A and 3B are what is known as an "or test". All you need is one of those, don't need both. If you do a repo without notification, the debtor has no reason to believe that they will be able to recover their property by other means (such as payment of a debt). I know I'm not going to take the time to stop and ask you if your a recovery agent (or the lender yourself) or the local gang banger while you are making off with my property in the dead of night.

In other words, if you do an illegal repo, you have just handed that debtor 3A to justify them using deadly force. Now, I don't know about other states, but they might have that on the books as well. If "you" are going to do your repo'ing during the same time that common criminals do their thing, you run that risk. I do have to wonder why the night time incursions? If you believe that you are in the right and the law is on your side, not to mention the shock value to that current debtor, but also to your other outstanding ARs out there, why do this at night?

 

[visual800]

And what have you gained? You didn't get paid and you're not likely to ever be paid. You now posess a product that is unusable by anyone save the place for which it was originally fashioned..

Why in the hell would you allow one of your signs to be used FREE than have it in your own posession? That crazy man, I will destroy it than let these guys have it.

KUDOS to OP! He covered the sign and they have made contact. People need excouragment and motivation. Once they have what they want the motivation is gone!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Why in the hell would you allow one of your signs to be used FREE than have it in your own posession? That crazy man, I will destroy it than let these guys have it.

First off, I don't think anyone is advocating for any deadbeat to be using something for free. How we go about covering ourselves to prevent or mitigate this situations is where we radically differ.

KUDOS to OP! He covered the sign and they have made contact. People need excouragment and motivation. Once they have what they want the motivation is gone!

I will say this, what he did is better then what some of you were recommending as he didn't take it from the property and he didn't permanently deface the sign. However, as to encouragement and motivation. I won't do so if it is an illegal act, rather or not, I would personally agree with the motivation or not may be a different story.

To me, what he did would be a fuzzy gray area, but not what some of y'all advocate without having done certain things.

 

[AzGene]

50% down, balance on delivery, period. The time wasted on collecting from deadbeats could be better used acquiring new business.

 

[tim99]

got paid today, scolded by the client yes but paid nun the less

 

[visual800]

And if it is in a shopping center , the landlord will not like having liens put on the property.

How can you place a lien on a property that the owner does not own? That ain't gonna work sir.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

How can you place a lien on a property that the owner does not own? That ain't gonna work sir.

Depending on laws in your jurisdiction, but you are looking at two things. Improvement on the property (the addition of signage) and the lease agreement. How it is expressed in the lease agreement on how improvements are made.


The claim (especially if the signage is considered apart of the property once installed) is against the property (and thus the property owner). You would file it with owner and the owner would have to deal with the tenant for repayment depending on terms of the lease for what you filed the claim for.

 

[visual800]

I cannot see how anyone can place lien a building that the owner of the business that owes you, does NOT OWN. IF this is possible I would assume one of the first things a landlord would do is make sure these things will not and can not happen

This just doesnt sound right to me. In fact it makes no sense

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I cannot see how anyone can place lien a building that the owner of the business that owes you, do NOT OWN. IF this is possible I would assume one of the first things a landlord would do is make sure these things will and cannot happen

This just doesnt sound right to me. In fact it makes no sense

Because improvements were made to that building. The tenant in this case was acting as an agent of the owner to have improvements made to the building. Be it repairs or beautification or whatever.

Owners do put language in their agreements to mitigate tenants from going hog wild. Notification etc or some owners even say if you want to do signage you have to follow these guidelines etc.

But the underlying claim is on the property and thus the owner. The owner then turns to get the repayment from the tenant based on terms of their agreement. Are there frivolous claims, you betcha. But there are those no matter what area you are talking about.


I think the issue that you are having is the fact that you have the business owner hiring you, but not the landlord of the building. The thing that you have to remember is that the improvements were done to the landlords building, thus (s)he would get the benefit of those improvements. That's the key distinction.

 

[John Butto]

You know I have read for quite some time on here how people do not get paid and well you know you have seen it. Does it occur to you that maybe some of the work is sub par and when the client gets the signage they are unhappy and just do not want to pay. In some instances they have paid 50% deposit and feel that that is what it is worth. Or they have no signage and what has been done for them just has to suffice until they get more money and have someone else do the work.
As the OP said, he received his money but after a "talking to" from the client. Nine out of ten times if a client is happy with your work, they pay.
So the next time someone on here complains about not getting paid, show us what you did for them and maybe it will help us understand a little better about your plight.

 

[tim99]

I once had a similar situation where a client brought in a design on a flash drive for a banner, i checked out the design that was mainly text, printed a proof approval paper and had them sign it, produced the banner and they came in latter that day to pick it up. however when they came to pick it up they noticed some spelling errors withing the text that neither me nor the client had noticed during the proofing steps. They refused to take the banner and demanded a refund. Naturally i had to decline there demand for a refund.

 

[John Butto]

I once had a similar situation where a client brought in a design on a flash drive for a banner, i checked out the design that was mainly text, printed a proof approval paper and had them sign it, produced the banner and they came in latter that day to pick it up. however when they came to pick it up they noticed some spelling errors withing the text that neither me nor the client had noticed during the proofing steps. They refused to take the banner and demanded a refund. Naturally i had to decline there demand for a refund.

So you redid it for them with the correct spelling for the price agreed upon? Because you are the professional they came to and redoing it would have been the honorable thing to do. Did you ever hear of two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[bob]

I once had a similar situation where a client brought in a design on a flash drive for a banner, i checked out the design that was mainly text, printed a proof approval paper and had them sign it, produced the banner and they came in latter that day to pick it up. however when they came to pick it up they noticed some spelling errors withing the text that neither me nor the client had noticed during the proofing steps. They refused to take the banner and demanded a refund. Naturally i had to decline there demand for a refund.

In looking over the spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors in your post I can see why it might be the case that similar linguistic trespasses might slip by you unnoticed.

As my dear old dad was wont to say "Follow the copy even if it goes out the window." But always added "But first proofread it and correct any spelling and grammatical mistakes." You're supposed to be a professional dealing with words and images, it's incumbent upon you to correct or verify anomalies in copy.

 

[tattoo.dan]

You know I have read for quite some time on here how people do not get paid and well you know you have seen it. Does it occur to you that maybe some of the work is sub par and when the client gets the signage they are unhappy and just do not want to pay. In some instances they have paid 50% deposit and feel that that is what it is worth. Or they have no signage and what has been done for them just has to suffice until they get more money and have someone else do the work.
As the OP said, he received his money but after a "talking to" from the client. Nine out of ten times if a client is happy with your work, they pay.
So the next time someone on here complains about not getting paid, show us what you did for them and maybe it will help us understand a little better about your plight.

I agree with this...after reading the posts from the OP, could very well have been a horribly misspelled sign!

 

[tim99]

So you redid it for them with the correct spelling for the price agreed upon? Because you are the professional they came to and redoing it would have been the honorable thing to do. Did you ever hear of two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes i ended up Correcting the errors and re printing the banner for the original price and after that any order that came my way with text in it i always proof read 2-4 times