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When a potential client begins to introduce a new project.

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
Now that wouldn't be a sales call, would it?
ColoPrinthead,
i see your point. My interest in this whole conversation is to have a talking tool ready when you want to use it. You may only use it once a year. But have it ready when you need it. Does that make sense?
Robert Armerding
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
You say you enjoy conversations and what I gather from your posts seems to be geared towards generating conversations.

But in today's world, people don't want to chit chat about nonsense. We all want to get our shit done and go home. It's about speed, that's why people e-mail and text.. they just want to get the point across and move on with their day. I get the picture that you like sitting down face to face with people and having a therapy session and use "signs" as a way to get it.

Some clients like to chit chat... and I'll play along if it means the $$ in the end will be worth the time invested. I'm not talking about getting information and clarifying what they need and what you should make... but you make it sound like excess nonsense.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
Like I said, sometimes it IS a discussion to have, usually it's when an existing business it having problems that signs might help with.
I've had more than a few of those. "Customers can't find our service entrance even though it's marked" "Everyone thinks we're a beauty parlor but we do everyone's haircuts"
The church and the day care are separate but we can only have one sign and we don't want them to think the church owns the daycare" etc
Just don't like when salespeople have a script that have to follow even if it's not relevant.
Billct2
Let me pick up on your last sentence about following a script.
Thank you for bringing that up. It is a very good point.
Just as you have certain tools in your tool kit that are very seldom used, when you need one of them, you make good use of it. All I am attempting to discuss here it to have this kind of inquiry ready when it is appropriate to use it. Does that make sense to you? Or, maybe not.
Robert Armerding
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Robert..... either you misunderstood or you misread. I did not say I have a problem with YOUR style. I said your way of wording or talking to a client, be it new or old is not my style.

We all write and our own style comes through. That's the beauty of this. Things can be turned around or misunderstood, but that's the nature of a keyboard society like this. You can't hear the inflections, or the pauses or tilt in someone's voice, like in person, so you need to read and comprehend all of it and well. If not, ask to have something repeated or explained.

Listen and take notes. That is one of the biggest parts of A N Y business. In the end, you need to know what those notes originally meant. You can't take some sort of short-hand, comer back a week later and not know what was really said. If you do, you're sunk.
  • You used a word earlier and it's one of my favorite words.... FOCUS. This is something most people do not and cannot do. It's quite evident here and in just about any place you go, unless there's drinking involved. Here, at s101, someone will write something as gospel one day and totally contradict themselves the next and not even know it. It can be pointed out to them, and then they backpedal. Most people do not have a system. That would be a KEY element or subject for one of your pop quizzes here.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
You say you enjoy conversations and what I gather from your posts seems to be geared towards generating conversations.

But in today's world, people don't want to chit chat about nonsense. We all want to get our **** done and go home. It's about speed, that's why people e-mail and text.. they just want to get the point across and move on with their day. I get the picture that you like sitting down face to face with people and having a therapy session and use "signs" as a way to get it.

Some clients like to chit chat... and I'll play along if it means the $$ in the end will be worth the time invested. I'm not talking about getting information and clarifying what they need and what you should make... but you make it sound like excess nonsense.
Texas_Signmaker,
I hear you. Could you please do me a favor and specifically point out what you think is my nonsense? All I am attempting to do here is provide sign makers with a talking tool, ready to use when appropriate. Do you have a problem with that? If so, tell me straight up. Tell me plainly my "nonsense."
Robert Armerding.
 
C

ColoPrinthead

Guest
I hate having to talk with tools and try to avoid them in general.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
Robert..... either you misunderstood or you misread. I did not say I have a problem with YOUR style. I said your way of wording or talking to a client, be it new or old is not my style.

We all write and our own style comes through. That's the beauty of this. Things can be turned around or misunderstood, but that's the nature of a keyboard society like this. You can't hear the inflections, or the pauses or tilt in someone's voice, like in person, so you need to read and comprehend all of it and well. If not, ask to have something repeated or explained.

Listen and take notes. That is one of the biggest parts of A N Y business. In the end, you need to know what those notes originally meant. You can't take some sort of short-hand, comer back a week later and not know what was really said. If you do, you're sunk.
  • You used a word earlier and it's one of my favorite words.... FOCUS. This is something most people do not and cannot do. It's quite evident here and in just about any place you go, unless there's drinking involved. Here, at s101, someone will write something as gospel one day and totally contradict themselves the next and not even know it. It can be pointed out to them, and then they backpedal. Most people do not have a system. That would be a KEY element or subject for one of your pop quizzes here.
Gino,
I am grateful that you have taken time to explain this to me. I really appreciate it. Yes, I do like the word FOCUS. Going forward, I will keep your advice in mind. I am always open to your input. If I say something that is not clear, your response helps me get a little closer. For sure, I want to aggressively find ways to help here at s101. Quite often that might come across in ways not intended. I acknowledge that and am open to anyone who wants guide me.
Robert Armerding
 

iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
Most of my customers seem to be with the times. Nobody wants to phone up for a chit chat any more or pop in and discuss things. We get an email with a spec and everything else is dealt with via email generally.

and that’s design jobs. Jobs where customers generate their own artwork. They do everything online and I don’t need to speak to them. Those ones are my favourite.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Most of my customers seem to be with the times. Nobody wants to phone up for a chit chat any more or pop in and discuss things. We get an email with a spec and everything else is dealt with via email generally.

and that’s design jobs. Jobs where customers generate their own artwork. They do everything online and I don’t need to speak to them. Those ones are my favourite.

No kidding. 15 years ago most of my day was on the phone or dealing with people in the shop. The phone and in store visits require immediate attention. E-mail can be done when you get to it. Definitely changed for the better.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
I hate having to talk with tools and try to avoid them in general.
ColoPrinthead,
Thank you for pointing out how you see it.
What if we talked about advanced conversation skills? Maybe something like "Mindfull Listening." Or, "Power Questions." Or, "The Art of Explanation."
Or, as you see it, maybe not one of them is of any value.
I am open minded, so tell me how you see it.
Robert Armerding
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Notarealsignguy
I fully understand what you are saying and I appreciate your input.
Let me pick up on your "Golden rule is never sell on your first call." How would you apply that if you are working in a retail sign shop and the client is right there in front of you?
Robert Armerding
I was talking about on a sales call. I'm not in the retail business and hope that I never have to be. I prefer to go out and find the people that I want to do business with rather than have every tom dick and harry come in and waste my time. Im used to dealing with contractors, they dont want options or to talk about anything. They expect you to know what they need, if you don't then you are stupid in their book.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
Most of my customers seem to be with the times. Nobody wants to phone up for a chit chat any more or pop in and discuss things. We get an email with a spec and everything else is dealt with via email generally.

and that’s design jobs. Jobs where customers generate their own artwork. They do everything online and I don’t need to speak to them. Those ones are my favourite.
iPrintStuff,
I am curious. Let me create a scenario. If a brand new potential client does come into your store and has a project that is very important to them, and they are having trouble articulating what is on their mind. Can you picture it? What skills would you like to have ready?
Robert Armerding
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
I was talking about on a sales call. I'm not in the retail business and hope that I never have to be. I prefer to go out and find the people that I want to do business with rather than have every tom dick and harry come in and waste my time. Im used to dealing with contractors, they dont want options or to talk about anything. They expect you to know what they need, if you don't then you are stupid in their book.
Notarealsignguy,
Thank you for explaining your own situation.
Do you think that everyone here on s101 is in the exact same situation?
Robert Armerding
 
C

ColoPrinthead

Guest
No kidding. 15 years ago most of my day was on the phone or dealing with people in the shop. The phone and in store visits require immediate attention. E-mail can be done when you get to it. Definitely changed for the better.
While this is true, I feel the flip-side is everyone wants everything immediately these days.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
No kidding. 15 years ago most of my day was on the phone or dealing with people in the shop. The phone and in store visits require immediate attention. E-mail can be done when you get to it. Definitely changed for the better.
Texas_Signmaker
You say, "in store visits require immediate attention."
Let's say this only happens once a month, or less. And then they are someone you have never met. In the very early moments of your conversation with them, you sense that the project is extremely important and you sense that you could really help them, then would you want to have some high level conversation skills "immediately" ready?
Robert Armerding
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Has anyone, in their travels, on google or the internet, ever come across some advertisement be it just there or a popup that says something about....... whatever and it peaks your curiosity ?? You click on it and someone starts talking about this and that, and you think, sounds interesting. They go on talking and next thing ya know, you're 9 minutes into this thing. Now, ya feel like you've put too much time into this and you're gonna hear it out to the end, but the person keeps saying, I'll get to that in a moment, but just listen to this a little bit longer...... so you do. Now, it's 22 minutes and they say, and now.... what you've been waiting for. It's something ya gotta pay for or get a book and you say, what the flyin' F?&$#@)?/} ?? I think it has come to us.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Texas_Signmaker
You say, "in store visits require immediate attention."
Let's say this only happens once a month, or less. And then they are someone you have never met. In the very early moments of your conversation with them, you sense that the project is extremely important and you sense that you could really help them, then would you want to have some high level conversation skills "immediately" ready?
Robert Armerding

Honestly, a red flag would go up.

I'm focused on regular commercial signs. I don't try to get involved in things that people are emotional about or have a hard time understanding. Usually the ones that are emotional are asking about silly small personal signs that they want for very little money. I want a client that isn't emotionally invested in what they are buying from me...the ones that just need to get the project done...that's they type that is easy to deal with. I don't want to work hard for my $$. If they sound like a dingbat or are hard to communicate with, I politely refer them somewhere else.
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
Has anyone, in their travels, on google or the internet, ever come across some advertisement be it just there or a popup that says something about....... whatever and it peaks your curiosity ?? You click on it and someone starts talking about this and that, and you think, sounds interesting. They go on talking and next thing ya know, you're 9 minutes into this thing. Now, ya feel like you've put too much time into this and you're gonna hear it out to the end, but the person keeps saying, I'll get to that in a moment, but just listen to this a little bit longer...... so you do. Now, it's 22 minutes and they say, and now.... what you've been waiting for. It's something ya gotta pay for or get a book and you say, what the flyin' F?&$#@)?/} ?? I think it has come to us.
Gino,
As you see the s101 crowd, I think i have it straight, that you are aware there is plenty of room for improvement in their business management skills. Do I see that correctly, or am I off base?
Robert Armerding
 

Robert Armerding

Listen Sharp
Honestly, a red flag would go up.

I'm focused on regular commercial signs. I don't try to get involved in things that people are emotional about or have a hard time understanding. Usually the ones that are emotional are asking about silly small personal signs that they want for very little money. I want a client that isn't emotionally invested in what they are buying from me...the ones that just need to get the project done...that's they type that is easy to deal with. I don't want to work hard for my $$. If they sound like a dingbat or are hard to communicate with, I politely refer them somewhere else.
Texas_Signmaker,
"I politely refer them somewhere else" that sounds like an appropriate response.
Check it. My own observation. When a sign maker sees his finished sign, maybe even years after he crafted it, he still feels reasonable pride in his job well done. Maybe you don't feel that way. Or ???
Robert Armerding
 
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