C
ColoPrinthead
Guest
Tex ain't got no pride 
-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
When a potential client begins to introduce a new project.
- Thread starter Robert Armerding
- Start date
Tex ain't got no pride 
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
When tex has a customer show up, he takes them on a tour of the garage and then they head the bedroom to see his clean desk. Whatever it takes is the texas motto
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
ColoPrinthead,
Interesting observation. I wonder. When you see your finish product, do you sense any kind of reasonable pride?
Robert Armerding
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
Notarealsignguy,
From my perspective, this conversation has turned south. I will drop out if it keeps going this way.
Robert Armeridng
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
It depends on the client if the tour goes that far.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Being honest...... I don't understand the question or how it deals with the original OP or any of the posts in this thread ??
I see the vast s101 membership as being young businesses. There are all kindsa nich shops from A to Z and everything in between. At almost any given point, people need help with management skills, but in this place, there seems to be fa-a-a-ar more emphasis on how to get components, such as ink, vinyl, cheap media, layouts and fonts then there is for some catch phrase or finding new perspectives to unleash on these people. There is nothing wrong with creative thinking or questioning the masses, but are these masses ready for it ?? I dunno, but I don't think so.
Rather than bore the masses to death, why not take yur questions to a higher level and discuss this stuff in the 'Premium section. It's not a populated, but you have more people into this sorta thing there. It might take a while to get a response, but it might be worth it to get your feet wet back there then on the freebie boards. Your lateral thinking might be better viewed in that section.
This is what you are asking with these threads of yours and I'm just not sure, this is the place for it.
- not clear what the question really is
- not clear how to arrive at a solution
- no idea what the solution looks like
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
Gino,
Great suggestion. Thank you. I did post my very first thread there and I thought I had inadvertently made a gigantic mistake. I will try it again soon.
The core of the problem: How to get sign makers to see that they need to improve their management skills when they see no need. Yet in every thread, I do receive a "like" from one or two people. Maybe when they see the pounding, they have no desire to get beat up.
Anyway, I am grateful for your input. It is always welcome.
Robert Armerding
C
ColoPrinthead
Guest
Now that I have started designing the majority of what I produce and I see it displayed as a collective on a show floor I do. When I was just doing production work the only pride about my product came from troubleshooting.
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
ColoPrinthead,
Thank you for your openness.
I suppose that someone could say that my intended work here on s101 is "troubleshooting."
What do I mean? A large number of observers of our sign making industry have plainly told me that there is a tremendous need for sign makers to improve their business management skills. Those same observers have also said that few if any will acknowledge their need. I have personally had the top person in our industry tell me that if I am able to crack the code, please let that person know.
ColoPrinthead, if you have any ideas about how to "crack the code," please be so kind as to tell me.
Thank you,
Robert Armerding
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
No, I have no pride after I worked hard all day doing a sign. What kind of stupid question are you asking? Why are you asking people if they have pride? Care to expand on that? Do you agree?? I'd like to see where the conversation takes us... is what I'd ask a girl.
iPrintStuff
Prints stuff
I think we’re a couple couches in a small office away from “and how does that make you feel?”
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
Texas_Signmaker,
You are free to call it a "stupid question" if you want. You have a right to your opinion. And, I respect that. At the same time, I, as a "Merchant Member" am totally free to promote myself in anyway that I want. If you do not like what I am doing, I have no problem with you telling me straight up. What I have a problem with is when you show no respect. When you show derogatory and defamatory remarks, then I become concerned.
My primary purpose in being here on s101 is to reach out to the tiny percentage of sign makers that have room to improve. The only way I can reach them is right here on the open forum.
If you are not in that tiny group, feel free to not click on my threads.
Robert Armerding
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
iPrintStuff,
If that is how you want to take it. I respect your right to see it that way.
On the other hand, I also have a right to post what is important to me. My intent is to reach out to sign makers who understand that they have room to improve.
If that does not include you. Then just don't click on my threads.
Robert Armerding
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
There are some small business owners that are interested in getting better at managing their business but not all are. I think that for the most part, many arent real open to advice on structural things within their business for many reasons. As time goes on, you can start to see that many people are content where they are. They don't want to grow and that looks like a bad business person to other people. There are people like myself that only want to work in 1 genre and have no interest in doing work outside of it.
Some people also enjoy figuring the ins and outs themselves. For those that do not, there are franchises that will spell it all out for you and all you have to do is plunk down cash, show up and do as they say.
Some people also enjoy figuring the ins and outs themselves. For those that do not, there are franchises that will spell it all out for you and all you have to do is plunk down cash, show up and do as they say.
Gino is on the right track on this. A key rule of reflective questioning is 'be natural'. The OP posed the question “I’m curious. I wonder, what might have prompted you to have this sign built?” I'm Interpreting that as Robert feels there needs to be productive dialogue to understand what exactly are the priorities for the customer in order to generate the best outcome. That's insightful and important, but as Gino pointed out, does not sound very natural (I think he said 'weird'). Most of my customers here would be polite but shaking their head when out of sight, or worse, suspicious because it sounds so fake. Sounding fake and actually being a fake can be entirely different, but in most casual business conversations, reality is whatever is perceived in the moment. We don't usually have the luxury of deep, get to know the real you conversations.
If the answer is in effect 'Well, that's my communication process and I don't need to change' then the person in the sales/consultant role is guilty of not being able to adapt in order to communicate effectively with the customer, and probably needs to work on both BEING AND SOUNDING genuine to earn trust before asking the big questions.
If the answer is in effect 'Well, that's my communication process and I don't need to change' then the person in the sales/consultant role is guilty of not being able to adapt in order to communicate effectively with the customer, and probably needs to work on both BEING AND SOUNDING genuine to earn trust before asking the big questions.
Jester1167
Premium Subscriber
Robert, in my opinion, you came across as a psychologist in your post. Never really trying to provide anything but always posing a question. Questions that sound like you want them to search their souls for the meaning of life. Those are techniques use by psychologists hence, the association.
I think your topic could have been a great discussion if you came across differently and chose different wording. Understanding your target audience would be key.
I’m curious. I wonder, what might have prompted you to have this sign built?”
What you may have been trying to ask or a more appropriate version "What are you trying to accomplish with this sign?"
A majority of the professionals on here deal with the second phasing daily through common client interactions. Typically what prompted you is self-evident by the verbiage on the requested sign; graduation banner, sale, going out of business, and my favorite - take out or delivery only. We don't question why you want a sign. We question what they are trying to accomplish and guide them.
If a customer request a bid on a monument sign and has plans, you don't ask your question. They have plans and have a considerable amount of time invested in it. They don't want to start over and your phrasing will make them feel like they wasted their time and they will go elsewhere.
Even if I was designing a logo, a vehicle wrap, or a sign from scratch, I don't see myself or anyone else using that phrasing, ever. Questions like; what type of image are you trying to present, what's your target audience, do you have examples of colors or styles you like, what does your company do, what product do you sell... It's not about why they want this sign. It's about what they are trying to convey or accomplish with it that is important.
I think your topic could have been a great discussion if you came across differently and chose different wording. Understanding your target audience would be key.
I’m curious. I wonder, what might have prompted you to have this sign built?”
What you may have been trying to ask or a more appropriate version "What are you trying to accomplish with this sign?"
A majority of the professionals on here deal with the second phasing daily through common client interactions. Typically what prompted you is self-evident by the verbiage on the requested sign; graduation banner, sale, going out of business, and my favorite - take out or delivery only. We don't question why you want a sign. We question what they are trying to accomplish and guide them.
If a customer request a bid on a monument sign and has plans, you don't ask your question. They have plans and have a considerable amount of time invested in it. They don't want to start over and your phrasing will make them feel like they wasted their time and they will go elsewhere.
Even if I was designing a logo, a vehicle wrap, or a sign from scratch, I don't see myself or anyone else using that phrasing, ever. Questions like; what type of image are you trying to present, what's your target audience, do you have examples of colors or styles you like, what does your company do, what product do you sell... It's not about why they want this sign. It's about what they are trying to convey or accomplish with it that is important.
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
Notarealsignguy,
Your phrase, "some small business owners that are interested in getting better at managing their business" is my exact target audience. I have yet to find anyone who can tell me how to reach them. Maybe you know. I do know that many of them are right here on s101. I have had several of them connect with me via private message. You see, they would not dare to enter this thread.
So, we have a grand dilemma. Have you ever heard the expression, "How far apart are the horns of dilemma"? Maybe not.
I am very open to your input. Let's bounce around some ideas.
Robert Armerding
Robert Armerding
Listen Sharp
Jester11667,
This is exactly the kind of feedback I have been hoping for all day. You are a breath of fresh air and I appreciate it. Your "What are you trying to accomplish with this sign?" is a wonderful improvement. Certainly, there may be very limited times when it is an appropriate question. But, when it is appropriate, all I am looking for is that sign makers have it ready for their use.
Robert Armerding
Jester1167
Premium Subscriber
"What are you trying to accomplish with this sign?" is always relevant, but not always worth the extra time. Which,I have many examples of going over and above when the value isn't obvious can be worth it.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I'm not sure how long you've been lurking around this place, but the subjects you are touching on are/and have been discussed for a long time. These same questions (posed appropriately) have been asked over and over and over again and again. There are categories, which you are using, just for this sort of thing. Most people come with their questions, looking for answers and most go away with their questions answered. However, the next day, someone will ask the exact same question and here we go again. People do not seem to understand the "search" button or how helpful it is. On your subjects lately, you might find the EXACT people you are reaching out to and contact them directly, using the search feature. Ask them how it's been going ?? Have things improved and you're here to help them. Throwing a psych 101 class on us every other day and using certain buzz words or catch phrases doesn't seem to be doing all that well. Now, you say you've gotten a lotta PMs. That's good. Why not tend to them ?? If you put the word out, they will seek you. Like you said, we don't hafta look in at your threads, but it's always fun to watch a trainwreck.