$15 bucks.......................... wha....................

[Gino]

Gino, seriously, on a professional sign forum you have nothing better to say then complain about the service you got at your local burger joint.....and Fred actually chimed in on this.....unbelielveable?!!

Evidently, you have not been visiting this place lately. There ain't no sign sh!t going on here to begin with to discuss. Other than what font is this or where do I get the cheapest ink to go in my old printer I bought off e-bay hobbyist.... there ain't squat going on in this professional sign forum. So, if simple economics without the political slant/flare is introduced, just imagine the subject matter affecting your bottom line and what you can do to help, rather than posting nonsense. And while you're at it, why don't you learn to spell correctly the words with more than 2 syllables in it ?? This is a professional sign forum where communication count and that includes spelling.


As for the others feeling sorry and all teary-eyed for these down-trodden workers...... do you really believe what you're saying ??

Do you think McDonald's, Burger King Taco Bell or whoever went on the street, grabbed these people by the ear, dragged them inside and forced them to work for these wages ?? For Cripe's sake, these people applied for each and every job, filled out paperwork, agreed to all of the conditions and than they want to take their employers business hostage ?? For frickin' fast food ?? These people ALL made a choice and now someone is whispering in their ear, how they can forcibly change their future by banding together and creating chaos. To H*ll with the choice they made. They don't have to stick to what they agreed upon, but they want someone who has worked and put things together in a tightly run ship with a large investment... to listen to their stoopid ideas. If these people deserve what isn't theirs, why don't they go out and do it themselves on their own ?? Why do we have to keep paying for stoopid people's mistakes over and over and over and over ??

The ideal thing would be to shut all these places down and re-educate people and families... in cooking at home and at how much money THEY can save and how much better quality of food they'll be putting in their bellies.

Oh yeah..... and GB2, I hope you were only kidding about your post or misinformed from terrible reading skills. I never mentioned anything about bad service or the likes. I don't go to those places more than maybe twice a year.... and that's only in an emergency when I'm desperate. Other than Chic-fil-A, most of this food is gross and lousy tasting, unless you like a lotta chemicals.




​

And Addie..... well, some things just never change. Why not just shut your pie hole ?? You just wander all over the place hoping your sh!t will stick to something somewhere. Throw enough words out and maybe something will make sense to somebody.
​

 

[Marlene]

seeing how we've shipped all the better paying jobs to China, people who used to work in our factories are now working in jobs that used to be a first job for kids like McDonalds. these people work and earn a living without asking for help from others. look down on them all you want Gino, they work hard for the few bucks they get. nothing wrong with paying people a wage they can support a family on. they are working, not looking for a hand out and doing their best with what they have.

 

[GB2]

You're right...I'm sorry, I should have known better than to give you anything else to talk about.

 

[bob]

seeing how we've shipped all the better paying jobs to China, people who used to work in our factories are now working in jobs that used to be a first job for kids like McDonalds. these people work and earn a living without asking for help from others. look down on them all you want Gino, they work hard for the few bucks they get. nothing wrong with paying people a wage they can support a family on. they are working, not looking for a hand out and doing their best with what they have.

"we've shipped all the better paying jobs to China"? Really? All of them? And that "we've" includes whom exactly?

"nothing wrong with paying people a wage they can support a family on." Dreadful grammar notwithstanding, whether or not someone can support a family has absolutely nothing to do with the value of any job. Once more, it's the revenue to wage ratio for any position that matters, nothing else. Nothing. Employees are not hired merely to give them jobs. An employee is hired in order to increase and/or sustain revenue. Period. Ergo any employee must necessarily be paid less than the revenue it generates. The revenue to wage ratio is often frustratingly abstract, especially in management positions in larger organizations, but it is always there. Always.

Understand a little history...The middle class is a phenomenon of the industrial revolution. 'Industrial Revolution' being loosely defined as raw material production and automation leading to mass production of like objects. This created and sustained a heretofore non-existent 'middle class'.

At the present we are witnessing the final days of the original industrial revolution. Mass production of identical goods is in the process of being replaced by mass production of custom goods as well as custom delivery. Whether or not the middle class, as it is presently known, survives is up in the air. It's unclear if its existence is completely dependent on the existence of the original industrial revolution or not.

What does this have to to with french fry clerks demanding living wages? This is just a one manifestation of a social strata, the middle class currently undergoing upheaval, desperately clinging to the Way Things Were not The way Things Are or, more importantly, The Way Things Are Going To Be.

 

[Gino]

Marlene...... I'm not saying I look down on them at all. I don't believe in rewarding people for reneging on their contract.

In another post, many are saying how they find it a good thing... and even profitable to be sending things to China..... so why don't you ??

I'm just saying that whether it be lil' Johnny or Grandpa John.... they applied, knew full well what all the details were and now want to force the person who was willing to give them a job, when nothing else suited them [for whatever reasons] and now they wanna rape someone cause they think they have it to take.

This is the same kinda thinking which when someone pulls up in a beat up old VW you give them one price for a sign, but when they pull up in a flagship Mercedes, you up the numbers to adjust for their success. Is it really fair or with integrity that someone thinks they can play with numbers and still be considered a good guy/gal ??

Again, I'm not at all for Fast Food places, but in a franchise.... of any kind, their paperwork has to be almost flawless for Corporates records and the government records. They can't be fudging numbers and screwing with people's livelihoods for the heck of it.... but with this double standards many speak of.... it's Okay for the employee/worker to wanna mess with the books by forcing raises and bonuses which are not in the making. So, with this being said, if their $15.00 an hour minimum wage thing goes into effect..... how many other businesses will this take down, simply cause they can't afford to pay that well ??

See, we're all talking about big business, but it will greatly take its toll on the little guys like you and me. Currently, we have no one at that rate, except for one part-timer, but is everyone in your shop and every sign shop US-A over $15. an hour ?? I doubt it. It's the long haul, I'm speaking of. A few people can't make ends meet, and that's my or your fault..... how/why ?? This is where I'm coming from. How many small businesses when forced to pay more hourly wages, healthcare and whatever's next... fold ?? There's a much bigger picture than a bunch of sniveling fast food pimply-faced kids involved here. The older people are quite alright with what they signed up for, but a few lousy budget planning people, the rest of the nation will suffer.

 

[Kaiser]

Plain and simply put.....

First world problems.

 

[MikePro]

this is why we can't have nice things.... like "No-Holds Barred Politics" Forums
I do, however, miss having them here despite the hard feelings that get passed around.

Plain and simply put.....

First world problems.

lol, +1 this for sure!
#'Merica

 

[GWSigns]

Plain and simply put.....

First world problems.

 

[Marlene]

"we've shipped all the better paying jobs to China"? Really? All of them? And that "we've" includes whom exactly?

I'm old enough to remember when things were made here and so are you. my aunt worked in a factory in Maine sewing clothes. all those factories are gone, all the work that used to be available is now done in China. I worked in a factory that made skiis back in the late 1970's. it was a good paying job that had two shifts of workers. it left the US and went over seas. my daughter worker for Engergizer, a factory that had been in our state for some 60 years. guess what, they closed it down and now make batteries in China. that's just three real life factories I can name that are gone. good paying jobs with benefits and where do you think all those people went after the factories closed?

 

[bob]

I'm old enough to remember when things were made here and so are you. my aunt worked in a factory in Maine sewing clothes. all those factories are gone, all the work that used to be available is now done in China. I worked in a factory that made skiis back in the late 1970's. it was a good paying job that had two shifts of workers. it left the US and went over seas. my daughter worker for Engergizer, a factory that had been in our state for some 60 years. guess what, they closed it down and now make batteries in China. that's just three real life factories I can name that are gone. good paying jobs with benefits and where do you think all those people went after the factories closed?

I have no idea where they might have gone, nor do I care all that much. Time marches on. Only as it marches by do you know if it screwed you in passing or not. Regardless of what might have become of them, they should have absolutely no expectation of any potential employer paying them a living wage merely because that's what they previously made. If you have marketable skills, your probability of gainful employment approaches 1. But if you previously labored at something that someone else can do cheaper somewhere else or there is no longer a market, you will probably have problems.

Most likely no one in their right mind would or should consider manufacturing anything in the USofa, with the notable exception of certain niche market items and those items where shipping and delivery constitutes a cost sufficient to not manufacture those goods where they can be constructed for the lowest cost. Once more, companies do not exist to provide jobs, they exist to make money. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their proprietors to maximize their return on their investment. If that means manufacturing their product, in whole or in part, in China or Bottswannaland, so be it. It is not your job they are moving elsewhere, it is their job. The most you can do is be prepared as best you can.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I think this whole issue boils down to where you are in the U.S. as well. The whole $15/hr thing started in New York where compared to other parts of the country ... cost of living is 5 times higher but they still get paid min. wage. What they were attempting to do is do collective bargaining through protest ... I fully support this ... every employee has the right to say "hey, you aren't paying enough for me to afford my rent ... I think I'm worth more than that" ... it's also the right of every employer to say "no, you aren't, go back to mopping up the stalls." to make $15/hr the minimum would basically kill small businesses until inflation rose to match the new minimums ... either that or you will see a lot of people 'leave' the workforce and start working under the table. How many other jobs (painters, landscapers, SIGN GUYS, etc, etc, etc) would effectively raise from the 10-12 an hour range to at LEAST $15 an hour effectively almost doubling the cost of employment when a job market only supports the cost of that labor at that rate. I know in this area, if I had employees who were even at $15 ... just to keep it competitive for them in the job market to keep them from saying "screw this job ... I can work at dollar general and do practically nothing!" ... I would have to increase their income to keep them if I valued their work. As a result, services would around just here in amarillo would jump almost over night. This I do no support, I condone people being paid what they deserve based on the market they live in and the work they do ... not being force fed a requirement to double income levels for snot and giggles because a group of people halfway across the country are pissy about not making enough money for their mc job.

I will tell you one thing though ... If this were to go through, I would get a ****ty job at someplace like the dollar store and when corporations were watching their stock drop, I would take that extra pad of easy cash and invest it in those companies when they hit the bottom of the stock price ... when it bounced back ... I would be sitting pretty ... so expect to buy major retailer stock if it happens ... it won't ... but we can hope, right?

 

[Locals Find!]

Marlene...... I'm not saying I look down on them at all. I don't believe in rewarding people for reneging on their contract.

In another post, many are saying how they find it a good thing... and even profitable to be sending things to China..... so why don't you ??

I'm just saying that whether it be lil' Johnny or Grandpa John.... they applied, knew full well what all the details were and now want to force the person who was willing to give them a job, when nothing else suited them [for whatever reasons] and now they wanna rape someone cause they think they have it to take.

This is the same kinda thinking which when someone pulls up in a beat up old VW you give them one price for a sign, but when they pull up in a flagship Mercedes, you up the numbers to adjust for their success. Is it really fair or with integrity that someone thinks they can play with numbers and still be considered a good guy/gal ??

Again, I'm not at all for Fast Food places, but in a franchise.... of any kind, their paperwork has to be almost flawless for Corporates records and the government records. They can't be fudging numbers and screwing with people's livelihoods for the heck of it.... but with this double standards many speak of.... it's Okay for the employee/worker to wanna mess with the books by forcing raises and bonuses which are not in the making. So, with this being said, if their $15.00 an hour minimum wage thing goes into effect..... how many other businesses will this take down, simply cause they can't afford to pay that well ??

See, we're all talking about big business, but it will greatly take its toll on the little guys like you and me. Currently, we have no one at that rate, except for one part-timer, but is everyone in your shop and every sign shop US-A over $15. an hour ?? I doubt it. It's the long haul, I'm speaking of. A few people can't make ends meet, and that's my or your fault..... how/why ?? This is where I'm coming from. How many small businesses when forced to pay more hourly wages, healthcare and whatever's next... fold ?? There's a much bigger picture than a bunch of sniveling fast food pimply-faced kids involved here. The older people are quite alright with what they signed up for, but a few lousy budget planning people, the rest of the nation will suffer.

Gino, I seriously believe you just blab nonsense and people think you actually know what your talking about based on your post count alone.

It's glaringly obvious you have no clue about the issue that is being discussed and the movement behind it.

I will bold it this time so you get it.

FAST FOOD WORKERS IN A FEW CITIES ARE REQUESTING RAISES NOT ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, NOT ASKING FOR A RAISE IN THE FEDERAL OR STATE MINIMUM WAGE. THEY ARE REQUESTING POLITELY ON THEIR OWN FOR A RAISE FROM THEIR EMPLOYERS.


So, Gino do everyone else with some brains a favor and shut your stinking pie hole. We don't need more of your nonsensical ramblings.

 

[Kaiser]

come on now.... lets all be nice and have a whiskey accompanied by a 15 dollar cigar.

 

[GWSigns]

Taking notes for my next class on how NOT to resolve a conflict

 

[Fred Weiss]

Taking notes for my next class on how NOT to resolve a conflict

:Welcome: 2 :signs101:

 

[SignManiac]

I just have to say that I agree with everything Bob has replied to on the subject.

If you don't like what you agreed to work for, quit and then go find someone who will offer you what you want for a paycheck. But you better have some qualifications to back that up. It's no one's fault if you limited your earning potential by not gaining a marketable skill or education. It's survival of the fittest from the bygone days of the cavemen. No different today.

 

[GWSigns]

:Welcome: 2 :signs101:

LOL! I am loving it Fred, I may have my Masters in LESS than two years with the case study I have here!

 

[Patentagosse]

A large chain over here have seen the employees get unionized. They hoped for better paycheck and they got it! They got 2% raise while their union affiliation costed 'em 3% (yes, they're now paid less than before being -1%). Bravo...

On the other hand, regarding profitability and earning, how much does a big company must cash to consider being profitable? My point is if at the end, you make 34 billion dollars, how many more do you need to do on your workers's back? I've seen a clip of a sheik's car collection were there was for about 50 millions worth of exotic car in a private museum, but he don't even have licence to drive 'em... He could have fed millions of hungry childrens in Africa with half of this amount. I know I'm jumping into a delicate debate but that's what I have in mind when I see a silver-plated car in Dubai... what's the purpose? Why don't you invest this money into something more helpful? You will still have more money than you can ever spent.

OK, back to work now 'cause I have 2 mouths to feed...

 

[GWSigns]

what's the purpose? Why don't you invest this money into something more helpful? You will still have more money than you can ever spent.

OK, back to work now 'cause I have 2 mouths to feed...

I feel you on this. A few months ago, a group came to town to set a Guiness world record in the most meals packaged in an hour. The meals were for an orphanage in Haiti.

I went with some friends to take part in this and had eyes opened and perspectives knocked off their stands.

First, the meals were packaged in plastic bags we sealed - Soy, Rice, & Beans - 1 bag was the equivalent to 56 meals (forget the weight but it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 pounds per bag)

Those of us from this country were taken aback - THAT is 56 meals? We had come with visions of packaging xteen cans per box to create "meals".

I will never look at my bag of rice or box of mac and cheese the same ever again.

The impact of a blessing before eating is stronger.

I say all that to say this, as much as people in this country struggle to make ends meet, they still have it better than the majority of the people in the world.

And as a note, we did set the Guiness record and would have blown it even further out of the water, but we had to quit 15 minutes early because we ran out of beans!

 

[Gino]

LOL! I am loving it Fred, I may have my Masters in LESS than two years with the case study I have here!

Ha..... you shoulda been around for the 'No Holds Barred' section. You would've gotten your masters.... or doctorate in about two weeks going through those threads and analyzing them. You'd probalby have gone mad yourself with those topics and mental midgets taking part. I'm including myself.