David Wright
New Member
I never get work from the big box companies or even most national retailers. Possibly some stupid parking sign they need to pass inspection.
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A sign to ponder?
- Thread starter Jon Aston
- Start date
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
There's a lot of wisdom in the saying
whether it be saving the planet or just going about your daily business.
But playing devil's advocate, let me relate two situations as they played out:
1. Acquiring my new computer
I have just acquired my new quad core PC. After shopping around, I had finalized what I was going to get at the Configure Your Own PC section of TigerDirect.com. My dream machine ended up with a price tag of $1457 plus tax and shipping and was $200 to $500 less than other good reputation online sellers with identical systems.
I decided before ordering it, to offer the business to my local vendor from whom I get maintenance and support services and with whom I have no complaints after being under contract for about two years. Basically I handed him a printout of the specifications of what I planned to order with the offer to let him have the business if he can "get close to the deal". His response was "can do" and we settled on $1500 plus tax.
About a week later he delivered my machine. The first thing we noticed was that there were ports missing for PS2, LPT and Comm peripherals. I questioned this and got a lame reply that this was how all computers were being built these days. I then spent the next three hours running around trying to locate a USB to PS2 adapter so we could plug in my keyboard ... finding a Belkin adapter at Office Depot for $33.00. I also contacted SA Intl to arrange for a USB dongle to replace the LPT version I was using.
That evening, I sat down to set up the machine only to find that it was highly unstable and would crash on about every 5th keystroke. I decided to go to the TigerDirect website and lookup the motherboard they were specifying (a $200 Intel board) and found that it had all the missing ports. I next looked in the machine and then looked up the motherboard in my machine. It was a reduced features board from Intel selling for over $100 less.
I won't belabor the rest of the details. It has finally been straightened out but at a delay of 10 days, a couple of minor included things on the Tiger machine that I ended up not getting, and a significant amount of lost time.
If I had it to do over, I would have ordered the TigerDirect machine and saved time, money and grief ... not to mention the damaged relationship with my local vendor.
2. Building a website
Two years ago I decided to invest in a website to sell individual clipart images for immediate download. I shopped locally and I shopped nationally with people who seemed to be qualified to do the work. Quotes ranged from $5000 to $150,000 based on meeting the general features of a supplied model.
A local with an impressive list of clients and sites he had built bid $5000 but also stated he was willing to take partial payment in the form of clipart that I either publish or distribute. In addition he had also recently become my wholesale customer for vinyl and Edge printed graphics. It seemed a match made in heaven. The next lowest bid was for $20,000.
Three weeks went by and he finally sent over his vision of the home page which was incredibly wasteful of space and totally out of step with everything we had discussed. I spent the weekend composing five pages of specifications and sent it to him. Another three weeks passed and after a phone call he sent over his new vision ... even further away from what was specified. I finally concluded from that and other incidents that the guy has or had a substance abuse problem.
As fortune would have it, I received an email I would normally have dismissed as spam from an Indian company offering web development services. I exercised due diligence and researched them and found their reputation to be a respectable one and their portfolio to be impressive. So I contacted them.
What I got back next was and immediate response and a can do attitude. They quoted the job at $1600 with half up front. Additional services or modifications would be billed at $8 per hour. We decided to risk $800 to see if they could meet our needs.
The result was what we wanted and excellent support after the sale on a few bugs that came up. On the downside, delivery was well past the original target date and communication was a bit more difficult due to accents and cultural differences. We liked what we got well enough to contract with them for an $1100 upgrade to add some needed features to the stable core provided in the first go around.
Looking back, I would have preferred to buy from a local or at least a US based provider but was unable to find one who was both reliable and reasonably affordable. That forced me to accept a situation in which I was inexperienced (outsourcing overseas) and to take a calculated risk. That risk in hindsight was well worth taking and I will continue to do business with the Indian firm.
I also never received another order from the local guy.
whether it be saving the planet or just going about your daily business.
But playing devil's advocate, let me relate two situations as they played out:
1. Acquiring my new computer
I have just acquired my new quad core PC. After shopping around, I had finalized what I was going to get at the Configure Your Own PC section of TigerDirect.com. My dream machine ended up with a price tag of $1457 plus tax and shipping and was $200 to $500 less than other good reputation online sellers with identical systems.
I decided before ordering it, to offer the business to my local vendor from whom I get maintenance and support services and with whom I have no complaints after being under contract for about two years. Basically I handed him a printout of the specifications of what I planned to order with the offer to let him have the business if he can "get close to the deal". His response was "can do" and we settled on $1500 plus tax.
About a week later he delivered my machine. The first thing we noticed was that there were ports missing for PS2, LPT and Comm peripherals. I questioned this and got a lame reply that this was how all computers were being built these days. I then spent the next three hours running around trying to locate a USB to PS2 adapter so we could plug in my keyboard ... finding a Belkin adapter at Office Depot for $33.00. I also contacted SA Intl to arrange for a USB dongle to replace the LPT version I was using.
That evening, I sat down to set up the machine only to find that it was highly unstable and would crash on about every 5th keystroke. I decided to go to the TigerDirect website and lookup the motherboard they were specifying (a $200 Intel board) and found that it had all the missing ports. I next looked in the machine and then looked up the motherboard in my machine. It was a reduced features board from Intel selling for over $100 less.
I won't belabor the rest of the details. It has finally been straightened out but at a delay of 10 days, a couple of minor included things on the Tiger machine that I ended up not getting, and a significant amount of lost time.
If I had it to do over, I would have ordered the TigerDirect machine and saved time, money and grief ... not to mention the damaged relationship with my local vendor.
2. Building a website
Two years ago I decided to invest in a website to sell individual clipart images for immediate download. I shopped locally and I shopped nationally with people who seemed to be qualified to do the work. Quotes ranged from $5000 to $150,000 based on meeting the general features of a supplied model.
A local with an impressive list of clients and sites he had built bid $5000 but also stated he was willing to take partial payment in the form of clipart that I either publish or distribute. In addition he had also recently become my wholesale customer for vinyl and Edge printed graphics. It seemed a match made in heaven. The next lowest bid was for $20,000.
Three weeks went by and he finally sent over his vision of the home page which was incredibly wasteful of space and totally out of step with everything we had discussed. I spent the weekend composing five pages of specifications and sent it to him. Another three weeks passed and after a phone call he sent over his new vision ... even further away from what was specified. I finally concluded from that and other incidents that the guy has or had a substance abuse problem.
As fortune would have it, I received an email I would normally have dismissed as spam from an Indian company offering web development services. I exercised due diligence and researched them and found their reputation to be a respectable one and their portfolio to be impressive. So I contacted them.
What I got back next was and immediate response and a can do attitude. They quoted the job at $1600 with half up front. Additional services or modifications would be billed at $8 per hour. We decided to risk $800 to see if they could meet our needs.
The result was what we wanted and excellent support after the sale on a few bugs that came up. On the downside, delivery was well past the original target date and communication was a bit more difficult due to accents and cultural differences. We liked what we got well enough to contract with them for an $1100 upgrade to add some needed features to the stable core provided in the first go around.
Looking back, I would have preferred to buy from a local or at least a US based provider but was unable to find one who was both reliable and reasonably affordable. That forced me to accept a situation in which I was inexperienced (outsourcing overseas) and to take a calculated risk. That risk in hindsight was well worth taking and I will continue to do business with the Indian firm.
I also never received another order from the local guy.
Air Art Girl
New Member
We live in a small community, that is growing but, the commitment to shop local is huge here. The closest town to the west is about 15 miles with about everything you need. To the east it's about 70 miles over the Cascades to the next decent sized town. NAFTA has changed alot. Just look at tags on clothing these days and see where it is made. I have never heard of some of the places I see on the tags. I do know it is putting many small mfgrs. out of business or forcing them to become more efficient. It's hard to compete when American wages include health care, retirement etc that foreign countries don't provide. Unfortunately the greed or need to raise wages in the US have caused many mfgrs to look outside the US to produce products to stay profitable. I am sure we do not export nearly what we import. When I hear the kind or wages people are making at such places like Boeing, it's no wonder why they look elsewhere for cheaper labor.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Many good points in this thread. Some are worth while believing, keeping and making your own, while others are just talking for the sake of saying something.
It’s a shame. But a lot of this boils down to ‘Survival’. If I could afford to buy ‘All American’ would I ?? Probably not. Because I live here doesn’t necessarily mean I must buy here. However, I do have the opportunity to seek and search out the best deal for my means. Unfortunately, ‘All American’ isn’t always the best as many posts here have shown.
I know for a fact that many of the American automobiles were being built here in this country, using the cheapest parts from other countries back in the 70’s. I don’t intend to mention names because many of them have changed suppliers more times than some people post here in a day. It’s difficult to stay on top of these things, but back then I was closely related with the automotive field.
When you take apart many of today’s appliances and electrical machines…. the parts are made elsewhere and really, I can’t help if I buy a hybrid of anything, if it’s all I can afford.
I think it is safer to say there are a great number off things I refuse to buy, because of the country it might be made in or the method in which it is made, but you can buy as much ‘American’ in these stores as you can buy ‘foreign’.
If this were the case…. wouldn’t we all own Gerber equipment ?? No, because that isn’t even ‘American Made’ anymore.
If you want to be a ‘Purist’ than you’ll have to go further than not doing business with ‘Wal-Mart’ and the ‘Star Bucks’…. you’ll practically have to become totally self-sufficient and grow your own stuff and build your things and keep every foreign name out of the things you buy. It's practically impossible.... but it can probably be accomplished.
It’s a shame. But a lot of this boils down to ‘Survival’. If I could afford to buy ‘All American’ would I ?? Probably not. Because I live here doesn’t necessarily mean I must buy here. However, I do have the opportunity to seek and search out the best deal for my means. Unfortunately, ‘All American’ isn’t always the best as many posts here have shown.
I know for a fact that many of the American automobiles were being built here in this country, using the cheapest parts from other countries back in the 70’s. I don’t intend to mention names because many of them have changed suppliers more times than some people post here in a day. It’s difficult to stay on top of these things, but back then I was closely related with the automotive field.
When you take apart many of today’s appliances and electrical machines…. the parts are made elsewhere and really, I can’t help if I buy a hybrid of anything, if it’s all I can afford.
I think it is safer to say there are a great number off things I refuse to buy, because of the country it might be made in or the method in which it is made, but you can buy as much ‘American’ in these stores as you can buy ‘foreign’.
If this were the case…. wouldn’t we all own Gerber equipment ?? No, because that isn’t even ‘American Made’ anymore.
If you want to be a ‘Purist’ than you’ll have to go further than not doing business with ‘Wal-Mart’ and the ‘Star Bucks’…. you’ll practically have to become totally self-sufficient and grow your own stuff and build your things and keep every foreign name out of the things you buy. It's practically impossible.... but it can probably be accomplished.
My reasons for not shopping at Wal-Mart have nothing to do with where the goods are made. I'd rather not support their marketing and hiring practices, which are designed to put their competition out of business. I live in a small town of 4000 in Western NJ, which is 40 minutes from a mall in all directions. Every year I buy all my Christmas gifts locally or from independent stores. Do I pay more? Yes? There have been so many comments on this thread from those who say they hate to buy from the big box guys but it is a matter of buying cheap! FIRST you have to make the decision to buy (or not buy) from certain retailers and THEN decide where to buy. This philosophical decision may cost you money but to me it is a matter of principal.
ScottyDoo
New Member
I shop almost exclusively at Wal-Mart, and it's based on pure convenience, not as much price. My wife works a night shift, and I'm a night owl anyways, so we rarely do any grocery shopping before 1:00am. Wal-Mart is 24 hour and 5 minutes from my house. The local stores all close about 9pm, and the bigger grocery stores in town that are more local (state-wide only) are open 24 hours as well, but it's a 15-25 minute drive. There's no reason for me to drive that far when I'm passing a Wal-Mart to get to them.
I woul gladly buy from the local shops if they were 24 hours.
I woul gladly buy from the local shops if they were 24 hours.
omgsideburns
New Member
It wasn't just the big boxes. It was the internet. The model of our economy changes.