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Are veterans better or special?

Techman

New Member
lets take any military kid of about age 22
And compare him with just about any other kid of age 22.
I will wager that military kid will win out over the non military kid in maturity, ability, work ethic, self discipline and responsibility.
Lets take just one. I personally know of one kid age 22 in charge of a 63 million dollar jet.

So yes, they are special. Their training and maturity and sense of work ethic far outweigh a majority of the other kids their age.
 

Wheeler

New Member
I respect veterans and Thanks for the service.

Veterans are however getting benefits that other people don't get like the Veterans Preference and VRA Programs. " The government hires on a point system and if a veteran applies they get first choice. +5 to 10 points over the regular people."

Leaving all the college graduates out. My daughter graduated college on the deans honor roll and cannot get a government job, due to so many veterans coming out right now.

http://federaljobs.net/veterans.htm
 

OldPaint

New Member
COLORADO SIGNS 1st...........NEVER SAID THEY WAS BETTER..... but most really are. doctors in the VA SYSTEM, are not money driven. and most are from some of the best medical centers in the usa.........working at the VA.
i have 1 doctor, rheumatoligist , that worked 25 years at THE CLEVELAND CLINIC. my cardiologist at the VA was head cardiology surgon at the local hospital for 20-25 years.
all of the urologist i had from the JACKSON, MISS VA.........where all students from the U of MISS in jackson. and like another vet said, when you leave a VA HOSPITAL, they ask you if there is anything more they can do for you...AND THEY MEAN IT!!!!!
STEAlthrider......
"entitled to free healthcare from the VA"
YES ANY VETERAN IS......................if certain criteria is met. you had to have served at certain periods of time, usually those where an active war was happening. those VETS.... from between wars or peace time, are still eligible, but with certain restrictions or they are considered a different group classification.if you wish to find out how this works go to http://www.vba.va.gov/vba/benefits/factsheets/ this will give you all you need to know. and dispel what YOU HAVE HEARD.
alot of this is based on your income. i know GROUP 7 VETS pay a co-pay for ALL VA MEDICAL. GROUP 1, is mostly medal holders, high percentage disability or 100% disability, and ever aspect of their health care is FREE. they deserve it. GROUP 4 is where i am, i am service connected(had a medical problem while on active duty) and due to my income, all of my medical care is free.
 

ucmj22

New Member
I respect veterans and Thanks for the service.

Veterans are however getting benefits that other people don't get like the Veterans Preference and VRA Programs. " The government hires on a point system and if a veteran applies they get first choice. +5 to 10 points over the regular people."

Leaving all the college graduates out. My daughter graduated college on the deans honor roll and cannot get a government job, due to so many veterans coming out right now.

most veterans do not qualify for 10pt, so 5 is what youre looking at and a 5 point preference isnt much out of 100. if 5 points leaves out all of the college kids, college isnt doing its job.




OldPaint why do you ask that??? because you HEAR.......VA HOSPITALS are less then what the civilian ones are??? IF SO.........you dont know jack!!!!
maybe I PREFER THE VA over civilian because of the GREAT SERVICE AND TIMELY MEDICAL TREATMENT I GET AND HAVE GOTTEN.
when was the last time you had a doctors appointment for 10 am and GOT TO SEE THE DOCTOR.........within 30 minutes from set appointment???
in the VA........you have a 10 am appointment, you are usually done and out the door at 10:30 am))))))))))
quality of care? all of my doctors and i are on 1st name basis!!!!!!!!! all of my medical needs are fulfilled to MY SATISFACTION... not the doctors.
when the CIVILIAN DOCTORS get their schit together as well as the VA HAS...........then maybe i would go to civilian doctors more.

Not all VA units are equal. the one by us lost its ability to do surgery for 4 years because of surgical death and infection rates that far outpaced the national average.



EstiSetser That being said though, joining the military is not the only way to "pick up the tab" after benefitting from the government for 18 years. Going to college does extend the ride, but it opens up opportunities for a higher salary, which means a higher tax rate and thus more being paid back into the system. (I did an independent analysis about 2 years back and found that, on average, Pell Grants generate more tax revenue than they cost within 4 -5 years after graduation.) Also, people benefit from the government our entire lives. FDA, EPA, DOE, DOT, DHHS, etc.

Sounds as if someone is giving far too much credit to the government. I dont recall any conversations in basic training where we were all sitting around discussing how we joined the military to payback the government for 18 years of its roads and emissions regulations.
 

HulkSmash

New Member
If you don't serve you are a coward or selfish.

this is possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read. And not to mention shallow. I'm not by any means talking down the military and the people who serve. I have dozens of friends in the military. You know why they're there? They couldn't afford college or get a good job...and a lot of times to get citizenship. They heard the military pays decent.. and they jump at it...
 

CES020

New Member
I have dozens of friends in the military. You know why they're there? They couldn't afford college or get a good job...and a lot of times to get citizenship. They heard the military pays decent.. and they jump at it...

Just because that's all you know, doesn't mean that's all there is.

There are people that go into the military because they want to serve, not because they want a paycheck because they couldn't find a job.

I have a family member that fits your description. One of the most worthless people I know. I called him one day and he took my call. He was standing in formation. Anyone stupid enough to answer a cell phone while standing in formation isn't exactly in the same class as a Frog Man from the 60's.
 

tsgstl

New Member
this is possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read. And not to mention shallow. I'm not by any means talking down the military and the people who serve. I have dozens of friends in the military. You know why they're there? They couldn't afford college or get a good job...and a lot of times to get citizenship. They heard the military pays decent.. and they jump at it...


first off how could that be a shallow statement when I admitted to being both those things? Taking things out of context does not make it so.
If you want to hear shallow look no further than yourself. I quoted your ENTIRE post:
"Most military people i know really dislike to be treated differently...
They want no special treatment.."
So are you saying veterans are not better or special because they don't like special treatment? Here is a news flash for you, all hero's do it for a better reason than to be treated differently that's why they are hero's.
Maybe the words I used were too harsh, but it still doesn't mean they are not true. I only wish at this point in my life I would have made the ultimate sacrifice for my country. Whether we agree with what they are told to do by the people we elect is not important. They risk their life like no other to make it possible for us to live a free life.

I have a 3 year old son, I do not want him to join because I don't want to increase his chances of dieing. That decision is selfish on my part, I would rather someone else send their child to war. Plain and simple.

We should thank our military everyday for their selfless acts.

EDIT: your excuse does you no good either, their are plenty of people that serve because they believe in protecting our freedom. To say they only go because they can't afford not to basically is a slap in 50% (conservatively) of their faces.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
During the second World War, I was told some years ago by my uncle, now that my Dad who is now gone.... my father was going to enlist in the armed service, but was asked to stay and fight from the home front. He worked on the railroads and his job was considered as vital here as fighting somewhere in Europe or the South Pacific. My uncle and almost every relative I had back in that time had enlisted into the war.

Go ahead to me, I was given a 2-S deferment because of being in college at the time. My number was high, but I had intentions of probably joining the Air Force when getting out. When I got out the draft was basically gone and it was a volunteer army I believe they called it back then.

I had mixed feelings about going in and many of my friends at college were Viet Nam vets and amputees and whatever.... and they all said don't go in. You'll be sorry. One guy had lost all of his toes and couldn't walk without toppling over. Another guy had his shoulder blown away and others had some kind of injury. The amount of drugs taking place was horrible, but they said, that was the only way you could face the enemy. In fact, it was said that some of the higher up gave them the stuff, to keep them going.

My interest quickly dwindled, but not due to being a coward, but from the many horror stories I heard. My own brother told us of the many thousands of poor innocent people he helped kill by loading the munitions and weapons into the big bombers night after night after night..... which by the way were in a country our government denied being in. He spoke very little about the war, but he said, every night two three times a night, they'd load the planes..... 1/2 hour later see the skies turn from pitch black to bright reddish orange and about 20 minutes or so later.... the ground felt like an earthquake.

My outlook was different about our military, but it was clouded by the news media and people actually returning. I was no militant, but it made me wonder what was going on. I didn't volunteer and I wasn't drafted, but to this day, I still think I made a mistake by not joining. I've tried serving the country in other ways, but none seem to hit home the way serving at least one 4 year stint would've accomplished.

If that's being a coward, I'm sorry.
 

tsgstl

New Member
Selfish - characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself

^^this is what those who serve throw out the window.

Look I'm not trying to make enemies here, but it is the way I feel. I am just really proud and admire those who serve.
 

HulkSmash

New Member
first off how could that be a shallow statement when I admitted to being both those things? Taking things out of context does not make it so.
If you want to hear shallow look no further than yourself. I quoted your ENTIRE post:
"Most military people i know really dislike to be treated differently...
They want no special treatment.."
So are you saying veterans are not better or special because they don't like special treatment? Here is a news flash for you, all hero's do it for a better reason than to be treated differently that's why they are hero's.
Maybe the words I used were too harsh, but it still doesn't mean they are not true. I only wish at this point in my life I would have made the ultimate sacrifice for my country. Whether we agree with what they are told to do by the people we elect is not important. They risk their life like no other to make it possible for us to live a free life.

I have a 3 year old son, I do not want him to join because I don't want to increase his chances of dieing. That decision is selfish on my part, I would rather someone else send their child to war. Plain and simple.

We should thank our military everyday for their selfless acts.

EDIT: your excuse does you no good either, their are plenty of people that serve because they believe in protecting our freedom. To say they only go because they can't afford not to basically is a slap in 50% (conservatively) of their faces.

call yourself what you want, don't categorize everyone else in it.
 

Marlene

New Member
yes, those who serve are special and should be treated as such. I can't imagine doing it myself considering what it takes to do it. I can't imagine if my child or husband joined the service. to me, it takes a special person to follow orders no matter how you personally feel, to do what is asked of you no matter how scary that may be. to do all of that because you want to keep us and your country safe harm and are willing to give your life to make that happen. that takes a special person and we should honor those who serve as they deserve that honor. supporting the troops is something that I have done for years. during the first gulf war, I wrote letters and sent cars to those who were away and didn't have mail from home. I hauled my family up to Montpelier to stand on teh capital lawn in 20 below zero weather, dressed in red, white & blue to wave flags because they were shooting a video to send over to our guys. I've sent packages of stuff from home to our people in this war and encourage others to do something, nothing is too small, to make everyday a day to honor those who serve.
 

Techman

New Member
I have dozens of friends in the military. You know why they're there? They couldn't afford college or get a good job

Hardly a valid comment assignable to all in the military. Yes there are some who joined for your mentioned reasons

But, I personally know of some attending Western Mich, had a good job and enlisted to the Air Force to serve. Some branches need people with higher educations to operate very high tech assets rather than filling slots as ground pounders.
 

HulkSmash

New Member
Hardly a valid comment assignable to all in the military. Yes there are some who joined for your mentioned reasons

But, I personally know of some attending Western Mich, had a good job and enlisted to the Air Force to serve. Some branches need people with higher educations to operate very high tech assets rather than filling slots as ground pounders.

Ok? I wasn't saying that was the 100% only reason why people went. Just a large number. Not by any means was i saying this is the reason for everyone, because in the same respect, i have friends who join because they want to fight for their country.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
At the risk of turning this political, but being old enough to have lived through the Vietnam era as an adult, I offer this historical perspective:

Commencing with the end of World War II, our foreign policy was dominated by adversarial relationships with both the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China and the advent of the concept of "limited war" because nuclear war was unthinkable. Truman tried it in Korea. Eisenhower and JFK propped up dictators and sent advisors and CIA covert operatives into Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. (My Mother was a high level State Department employee who was in charge of creating covers for CIA operatives and had an annual budget of $100 million to carry out her responsibilities.)

Then Johnson and Nixon escalated everything into a hot war based on lies that attempted to intervene in what was essentially a Vietnamese civil war and not a threat to U.S. national security.

The majority of U.S. citizens supported this in the early years. Eventually the protests and the realization that we were being lied to by our government changed a lot of minds. Then came the Kent State shootings and opinion change accelerated. The Watergate scandal and Nixon's resignation were the nails that sealed the coffin of public trust in our government and our leaders.

A list could be made of all the distasteful dictators, governments and activities our foreign policy has perpetrated, but you get the idea. And now we come to a simple discussion of how we should treat our veterans and active duty military be they volunteers or conscripts. We come up divided with differing points of view. The difference can certainly be seen between older and younger members. It can also be seen as it was during the Vietnam era between the hawks and the doves. Listen again to a song of the times ... Universal Soldier, that posed the question of the legitimacy of military solutions. Listen again to Ohio.

My convictions are that we fought one just war in the 20th century, World War II. And one in the 21st century, Afghanistan. I believe, however, that we've exceeded our justifiable goals in Afghanistan.

I do believe that we should honor our veterans. Unconditionally those who fought in just wars. And still the rest simply because they served when called or volunteered for their own reasons ... but more on the same level that I honor and respect a volunteer serving in a soup kitchen, disaster relief, or teaching an illiterate person to read.
 

tsgstl

New Member
At the risk of turning this political, but being old enough to have lived through the Vietnam era as an adult, I offer this historical perspective:

Commencing with the end of World War II, our foreign policy was dominated by adversarial relationships with both the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China and the advent of the concept of "limited war" because nuclear war was unthinkable. Truman tried it in Korea. Eisenhower and JFK propped up dictators and sent advisors and CIA covert operatives into Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. (My Mother was a high level State Department employee who was in charge of creating covers for CIA operatives and had an annual budget of $100 million to carry out her responsibilities.)

Then Johnson and Nixon escalated everything into a hot war based on lies that attempted to intervene in what was essentially a Vietnamese civil war and not a threat to U.S. national security.

The majority of U.S. citizens supported this in the early years. Eventually the protests and the realization that we were being lied to by our government changed a lot of minds. Then came the Kent State shootings and opinion change accelerated. The Watergate scandal and Nixon's resignation were the nails that sealed the coffin of public trust in our government and our leaders.

A list could be made of all the distasteful dictators, governments and activities our foreign policy has perpetrated, but you get the idea. And now we come to a simple discussion of how we should treat our veterans and active duty military be they volunteers or conscripts. We come up divided with differing points of view. The difference can certainly be seen between older and younger members. It can also be seen as it was during the Vietnam era between the hawks and the doves. Listen again to a song of the times ... Universal Soldier, that posed the question of the legitimacy of military solutions. Listen again to Ohio.

My convictions are that we fought one just war in the 20th century, World War II. And one in the 21st century, Afghanistan. I believe, however, that we've exceeded our justifiable goals in Afghanistan.

I do believe that we should honor our veterans. Unconditionally those who fought in just wars. And still the rest simply because they served when called or volunteered for their own reasons ... but more on the same level that I honor and respect a volunteer serving in a soup kitchen, disaster relieve, or teaching an illiterate person to read.

well said as always, I agree on some level with you final point and would include some police, firefighters, EMT's ect. but to me military have a much greater risk.
 

ucmj22

New Member
Here is a letter (first letter) written in 2004 that I think aptly expresses the sentiment of at least many service members.
there are three days in my life that changed me profoundly and triggered extensive self reflection. The day that I first ran toward the sound of gunfire and explosions, The day I realized with great clarity that there are actually people within eyesight that wish to literally kill me with purposeful intent and malice, and the third is expressed in the letter.
 

mark galoob

New Member
Fred, you hit the nail on the head buddy...

as far as active military being more dangerous than firefighter/emt/leo/nurse...
i was a medic for 10 years and i assure you every day i risked my health and my life...every day...i may have not had bullets flying at me, but if youve ever been in an ambulance going pri 1, or ever had to deal with the crazies i had to deal with, or the viruses and crazy bacterias i saw every day that would literly eat the flesh off your body...well you get the point...

mark galoob
 
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