buying artwork

[bendeane]

$300 is a "steal"

Whoa Nelly.

For $300 you shouldn't even EXPECT custom artwork... and for an identity, that's pretty cheap. If you want custom art I know illustrators on this very board that will be happy to do something for you - but you better plan on 4 figures - not three.

.

I second that from Bigdawg...our identity was created by a really good set of designers and it costs money. You might consider having somebody locally do a new logo for you (college kids can be a great source for young, hip designers eager to do some work on the cheap to build a credible portfolio), but even that will cost $30 an hour at the least and 5 or 6 if not 10 hours is what they may charge you.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Around here they do!

Sorry, maybe your staff didn't understand. Try this...
Estas dos competencias tienen nada que ver entre sí.

 

[Gino]

Sorry, maybe your staff didn't understand. Try this...
Estas dos competencias tienen nada que ver entre sí.

Does Si know you talking about him ??
​

 

[JR's]

Sorry, maybe your staff didn't understand. Try this...
Estas dos competencias tienen nada que ver entre sí.

Pat I don't speak French. what did you say :ROFLMAO:

 

[Mosh]

Estas tareas se hacen con el señor Mosh.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

PET PEEVE ALERT!

you'll be happy to know i lost the post i was writing here this morning... so now all you have to read is this this semi-short rant.

the legal use of any image is based entirely on the intent of the copyright owner. If ownership is not transferred exclusively to you, YOU DON'T OWN IT, not matter what you paid for it! without exclusive ownership you are paying for the right to use the image, WITH CONDITIONS.

if you are will be using clip art/royalty free images in a clients logo, you are obligated to tell them their logo is not copyrightable.

using royalty free image is done quite often... and i don't have a problem with it as long as everyone involved knows what it mean to use images they don't exclusively own.

how much you should be paying for the right to use an image? the answer is simply... whatever price the legal owner of the image sets!

i sincerely hope, if you are considering creating logos for clients... you do your homework on this.

 

[ontsigngirl]

I have a few things to say.....

Thanks to all who took the time to reply in an appropriate manner.

It's really too bad a simple question/statement/query has to turn into such a pissing match. This site is a great resource for information - too bad some of the people on here make it such a chore.

The statement was something I threw out there - I have no intentions of stealing it - I may be a lot of things but I am not stupid enough to confess stealing someones art in front of an international audience.

Let's keep in perspective people - this was black vector art - it maybe worth some money but it's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Just like a sign, a purse or any other item.

Lastly to all of you on your soap box - no one on this forum can claim to have all original ideas or all original artwork - there are very few original thoughts or ideas - just different peoples interpretations of them. Anyone who can say they have never "borrowed" an idea, or a shape or a colour is not being completely honest. Even altering a type face could be considered stealing.

Gypsy Graphics - I totally agree with what your saying - I had no desire to claim the art as mine - I was willing to pay "a users fee" so to speak but since I don't have or expect exclusive rights I was not willing to pay the price the legal owner set. So I walked away.

I'm not a logo designer have no intentions of trying. - a lot of the images people use to "represent" themselves can't be classified as a logo - it's just a name people give to an item that represents them. We all KNOW we can't use Mickey Mouse that's a given but some of the stuff available for "FREE" is in a really grey area.

 

[slipperyfrog]

but some of the stuff available for "FREE" is in a really grey area.

Actually if you would listen to what most are saying here you would understand (with some research) that there really is no gray area.

You either created original art & thus own the rights, bought the rights from the owner, follow the rights laid out by the owner, or have no rights. Is that clear?

 

[David Wright]

I would like to see what we are talking about.

 

[JR's]

I still don't know what Pat is saying. ;-}

JR

 

[GypsyGraphics]

I have a few things to say..... Thanks to all who took the time to reply in an appropriate manner.
It's really too bad a simple question/statement/query has to turn into such a pissing match. This site is a great resource for information - too bad some of the people on here make it such a chore.

...We all KNOW we can't use Mickey Mouse that's a given but some of the stuff available for "FREE" is in a really grey area.

ontsigngirl, i'd really like for you to be able to realize what a great thread you started and not feel like your "simple question" turned into a "pissing match." you posted a very important question, that was worth expanding on.... that's the beauty of a site like this.

hopefully you were able to get the information you were looking for and hopefully you and anyone reading this thread who might be unclear, comes to realize there's some real important stuff to consider when you put in writing, on a quote or invoice that YOU are "creating" a "logo" or "identity" for a client.

the gray area you mention is regarding price or value of an image.
but, an image you acquire for "FREE" could very well be just as illegal to use as Mickey Mouse.

whether my clients understand the concept of ownership of images or not... on the invoice of any project where i have purchase images, those images are listed as "Purchased Stock/Royalty Free Images" each is a line item with a brief description of the image and a price. I WANT THEM TO KNOW and I WANT IT IN WRITING which images were not created specifically for them and the small price tag vs the big buck price tag that accompanies an illustration or photo that was created or taken specifically for them.

so... maybe this isn't what you wanted to know either, but still, i hope it's helpful in some way, to someone.

 

[iSign]

this is an interesting thread.
I started a thread a few weeks back about a logo design job I took in.

In mine, I assembled text, with purchased fonts somewhat tweaked, a stock panel from "Vector Art", and some of my own design efforts at combining, customizing and coloring them. In the end, it is unique, and will be used as a logo, and was billed as a logo... but I did use clip art of a truck and an excavator. The client knew this was free to be used by others as well.. possibly even a competitor of his. The job resulted in 2 trucks being lettered and logo'd 4 days after I met the guy. He wanted to get photos of his actual equipment to replace the clip art, but for a 4 day turnaround, he went with the clip art option.

Still, I like the idea of showing the use of stock images as a separate line item on an invoice. It seems like a good way to document in writing that the clip art is a separate thing from the custom design work, and carries a separate level of exclusivity.

 

[tbaker]

since your logo is your brand, using an image that others could use is counter productive.

For example; in the early 1800's a little soft drink company brands it's name by designing it's own font, but neglects to trademark it, 100 years later some battery acid company comes around decides that the logo would look great on a red background, with a nifty ergonomic bottle....

Your brand is your image, it should be unique, it says who you are, it's your company's "Face"

use the image you found as a basis, and work around that concept, not copying, but as you said, there are very few "original" thoughts out there.

 

[B-RAD Graphics]

So you are in the bis of making signs and you can't even design your own logo?

+1 how in the world do you think you are going to run a business like that????....THAT IS SAD!!!! and then to POST IT :iamwithstupid

 

[Marlene]

It's really too bad a simple question/statement/query has to turn into such a pissing match. This site is a great resource for information - too bad some of the people on here make it such a chore.

The statement was something I threw out there - I have no intentions of stealing it - I may be a lot of things but I am not stupid enough to confess stealing someones art in front of an international audience.

you threw out a pissing and moaning statement about having to pay $300 for something you wanted to use and then wonder why some of us just got ticked off at the attitude. welcome to the big wide world of being a pro as this is how things work. if you don't think it is worth the $300, then don't pay the fee and move on to something you feel good about paying for. just what was your point in all of this? did you expect other to say, gee that's a lot of money or what? I guess I just am sick of newbies who have no idea of what the business is all about

 

[signage]

Try recreating it yourself and see how long it takes you! Now what would you need to charge someone to do that type of work? Also don't forget to figure in the design/idea faze! If you want to make a living at this you need to charge for your time and talent!

 

[ontsigngirl]

thanks again to all those who replied - I was really looking forward to reading this morning - I thought it was a good thread as well. It's too bad Gypsy that a person has to feel attacked or stupid for making a comment - it's hard not to get defensive. I brought up the subject on purpose already knowing the right answer.

Some of you made some really good points - it gave me some things to consider. I've got to admit it never occurred to me that someone would think they owned a piece of clipart - but of course how would they know.

I could "argue" this point all day - and some of you would never admit I have a point - that's ok - I come here for different ideas and opinions and even to get kicked in the ass some days - I look forward to more "discussions"

Have a good one!

 

[ontsigngirl]

working around the concept

since your logo is your brand, using an image that others could use is counter productive.

For example; in the early 1800's a little soft drink company brands it's name by designing it's own font, but neglects to trademark it, 100 years later some battery acid company comes around decides that the logo would look great on a red background, with a nifty ergonomic bottle....

Your brand is your image, it should be unique, it says who you are, it's your company's "Face"

use the image you found as a basis, and work around that concept, not copying, but as you said, there are very few "original" thoughts out there.

I hope I'm replying to this correctly

Thanks for your input - I did try to work around the concept - but didn't feel I
I made it different enough to feel good about calling it mine. It would be easy to pass off the "new" and improved look to someone who has never seen it before but when they're side by side you know it's a copy. So...I will either eliminate the bird or get someone to create it for me. This discussion made me think a lot about my business identity in general - I'm not sure what I'm trying to create for myself can even be called a logo - I don't expect to ever go Global - not looking to create a corporate identity package that is recognized world wide - really just want a way to be identified locally - and hopefully be happy making a decent living.

thanks again

 

[Gino]

ontsigngirl......

I'm kinda on your side as I think you knew what you were doing when you posted this, but like Marlene, I think the same based on some of your more recent responses..... since you didn't get anyone to lick your wound.

Not knowing something beforehand is one thing. However, once you learn the rules, you must learn to stay within those rules or you're considered in the wrong. Borrowing, fraud, piracy, stealing, plagiarism..... they're all considered wrong in our industry and if you want to be a part of the industry, you need to know when to stop.

Constantly defending something YOU now know is wrong is only digging you a deeper hole. Arguing all day for a lost cause won't get you anywhere.... especially here.

 

[petesign]

Big thanks to GG and iSign. GG, I like how you invoice that artwork and explain that to your clients. I will be doing that from now on as well... talk about preventing a huge headache later! This is a good thread.

 

[Marlene]

sorry if I came across as a real bitch but we see so many of these kinds of threads where someone new comes into our industry without a clue and then proceeds to act all bummed out by the rules we all have to live with. this just seemed like yet another thread like that. I have crap I hate having to do too. we do all the ADA and other types of signs for a local university. every year we have to pay a license fee to use their logo on their signs. I can see making companies that use their logo to make coffee mugs, tee-shirts and such as the items are made for the company to make money from and just have the university logo on the item. we aren't that type of company as we are making signs for the university yet every year we pay to make their signs. you want to cry about a license fee, try having to deal with crap like that. it is how the big wide world of signs works and part of doing business. $300 bucks to get something that you want to use? no big deal so I guess I just missed the why of the thread as for most of us, things like that are just part of our day.