-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
"Can you email me the file?"
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
Deaton Design
New Member
Adtechia, you will never see me get into it with anyone on here, it aint my style, but what you said to Jill, someone who has I'd imagine everyone's respect on this site, is completely out of line. I guarantee you an *** whooping if you said it in front of me. Man, what is wrong with you anyway?
Deaton Design
New Member
And to answer the original post, I thought you handled it well. The art is yours. Dont give it to anyone without being compensated. If they want to buy it, cool. But never give it up for free.
Border
New Member
Ha ha! Here's what search came up with using nothin but "adholio".
A full page of threads full of insults, lies & denial.
A full page of threads full of insults, lies & denial.
My Daily OM - "Your thoughts and actions are like stones dropped into still waters causing ripples to spread as they move outward. As the effect of a seemingly insignificant word passes from person to person, its impact grows and can become a source of great joy, inspiration, anxiety, or pain. Consider the effect of your thoughts and actions, and try to act graciously as much as possible. A thoughtful gesture can send ripples that spread among your loved ones and associates, out into your community, and finally throughout the world."
Daily OM from a few days ago - "All the situations in our lives, from the insignificant to the major, teach us exactly what we need to be learning. The people and situations we encounter every day have much to teach us when we are open to receiving their wisdom. Patience, compassion, perseverance, honesty, letting go—all these are covered in the classroom of the teacher that is your life."
So what I learned today....some people can be jerks!! There's no stopping them. Your best bet is to ignore them, turn away and act like they didn't even speak.
AND don't give your work away! If they want to pay for it fine. I LOVE the quote about if it's yours, why is it on my computer! I don't know if I'd have enought guts to say it to a customer but if they were rude to me, I might!
Daily OM from a few days ago - "All the situations in our lives, from the insignificant to the major, teach us exactly what we need to be learning. The people and situations we encounter every day have much to teach us when we are open to receiving their wisdom. Patience, compassion, perseverance, honesty, letting go—all these are covered in the classroom of the teacher that is your life."
So what I learned today....some people can be jerks!! There's no stopping them. Your best bet is to ignore them, turn away and act like they didn't even speak.
AND don't give your work away! If they want to pay for it fine. I LOVE the quote about if it's yours, why is it on my computer! I don't know if I'd have enought guts to say it to a customer but if they were rude to me, I might!
Had a client ask for a resend on some logos/art I did back in 2002 that they lost (I previously supplied them with these files). I was ok with it because she's new, and whoever had the files before can't be found.
Then she asks 'Great! I noticed a 3/4 illustration of a rac ehauler. can you send that to me so we can design our paint scheme for next year?'
to which I replied 'Sorry. those are proprietary. I don't give those out because it takes food off my table... being an artist in the business of supplying customers with paint schemes and all'
She then responds 'Oh, sorry. I wasn't sure who owned them.'
As if I would hand out someones elses art all willy-nilly?
Then she asks 'Great! I noticed a 3/4 illustration of a rac ehauler. can you send that to me so we can design our paint scheme for next year?'
to which I replied 'Sorry. those are proprietary. I don't give those out because it takes food off my table... being an artist in the business of supplying customers with paint schemes and all'
She then responds 'Oh, sorry. I wasn't sure who owned them.'
As if I would hand out someones elses art all willy-nilly?
David Wright
New Member
The way you ask the customer "why is it on my computer" has to be done light heartedly or with a wink, especially if you need good relations to continue.
Now if they are jerks, and rude inflections can apply.
Dave Drane
New Member
Colin the similar thing happened to me quite a few years back. I was working for a local govt. airport who gave nme a CD with their unusable logo file on it and requested digital printed stickers of various sizes. I had parts of the logo rebuilt for me by a goof friend who is also a member here. I charged extra for the file but deliberately did not tell them because one does not know what can happen in the future. Sur enough a few months later I was aasked to quote on a banner for a school fete they were sponsoring. I put the price in and 2 days later I got a call from another signwriter asking me to email the artwork. I told him to bugger off of course. 10 minutes later the airport manager rings and asks me to email the file to him. I said I could post his CD back to him but he said he already had it on file and it was unusabe and could I send him mine because my quote was too expensive for the banner and the other guy was ½ my price, but he would still have other jobs for me to do.. Doh! sure. Naturally I lost the work but felt good telling him that I did not send himm a bill for artwork and if his new buddy was so good let him make it himself like I did. I hope he lost time and money fixing it up again.
If you ban Addy over this what's Fred gonna get Gino for Christmas?
Looks like its too late now but Colin, over here, I'd either ignore the request or id just give it to the customer. It's a business card. If it were seven pages of proposed architecturals for some big project that never came to fruition, then nah.
Looks like its too late now but Colin, over here, I'd either ignore the request or id just give it to the customer. It's a business card. If it were seven pages of proposed architecturals for some big project that never came to fruition, then nah.
Colin
New Member
Respectfully, I'm not sure I agree. What purpose does "giving it to the customer" serve other than further drive down the respect, legitimacy and professionalism that has already been robbed from the sign trade? And your other option of ignoring him is the polar opposite of giving it to him. I don't get that.
I didn't hear back from the guy all day today, until about an hour ago, when he provided his CC number by email. So it's good to stand one's ground instead of jumping onto the race-to-the-bottom for pricing.
Perhaps he discussed further the reality and cost of setting it all up again from scratch with the other guy and realized that it's not any cheaper. I dunno.
I once had a lawyer arguing with me about how I could justify charging $150 for the 2 hours it took to come up with 'a simple drawing'. I spent a half hour trying to defend myself and explain every step I took. How he's paying for years of experience/expertise, etc... I knew I wasn't going to get paid at this point, but asked "So if I was a client of yours how much would have this 30 minute phone call cost me?". then he hung up. go figure. Sometimes its a question of relating how much their time costs to yours.
Clients that 'get it' are worth keeping. Clients that don't, aren't worth the effort. and throwing them a bone does nothing to bolster any aspect of what you do for a living, nor them. IMO.
in any event, glad it worked out for you... and hopefully he realized it was worth sticking with you.
Clients that 'get it' are worth keeping. Clients that don't, aren't worth the effort. and throwing them a bone does nothing to bolster any aspect of what you do for a living, nor them. IMO.
in any event, glad it worked out for you... and hopefully he realized it was worth sticking with you.
Dan Antonelli
New Member
Cmon Colin my friend, why are you doing artwork in the first place for 'free' as part of the printing job? Now you make a service a commodity. "The fee to design your card is $xx and you own the art. We can print your card as well for $xx". Specify deliverables and ownership at onset and all this goes away. No surprises, no hurt feelings. We sell design as a service, and if they want the art, its theirs. But 95 out of a 100 will never ask for the art, but the 5% that do, I don't care about - because I already got paid to do it. So not hurt feelings, everyone moves on, I wish them luck and if prints wrong, well , not my problem.
Not selling the design upfront is like putting Shimano on a Colnago. It just doesn't work right... HAHA....
Not selling the design upfront is like putting Shimano on a Colnago. It just doesn't work right... HAHA....
JoshLoring
New Member
Adtechia said:
I think you guys read this wrong. It's really not bad when you look t how easy it can be mistaken for what it really meant.
Jill's Better Then Cape Hacks!
Jill Busts Tech Chump Heads ?
Jill Bakes Ten Cheesy Hamburgers?
Jill, smile- not everyone has enough talent to get 175$ for a set of cards. I charge 300$ all day. It's not about the "card", it's about what's designed on the card.
Colin
New Member
To clarify, I don't create a design/logo for free, I simply layout and set-up the card ready for printing and include that in the price, and there's room for that.
I used to have a policy where "any additional artwork or set-up was extra", but sales were dropping off, so in order to entice orders, I decided to include it. Too many people see the stupid-low price for cards elsewhere (office depot sorts of places) and think that I'm exorbitant, so I had to sweeten the deal.
JoshLoring
New Member
Colin, for future projects use our policy.
1: NEVER invoice the word "artwork" to a client unless that's what they hired you for.
2: Use the word "layout" for all setups including business cards.
3: Invoice layout and business cards (or applicable item) on separate lines.
4: Include at the bottom of ALL concept proofs and invoices the phrase "All artwork remains property of (your company here) unless purchased in a separate artwork package which would be detailed on your invoice as 'Artwork'."
5: Always get signatures on proofs. This will confirm the client was aware the artwork does not belong to them in writing.
This should help keep any confusion out of the way for future issues.
1: NEVER invoice the word "artwork" to a client unless that's what they hired you for.
2: Use the word "layout" for all setups including business cards.
3: Invoice layout and business cards (or applicable item) on separate lines.
4: Include at the bottom of ALL concept proofs and invoices the phrase "All artwork remains property of (your company here) unless purchased in a separate artwork package which would be detailed on your invoice as 'Artwork'."
5: Always get signatures on proofs. This will confirm the client was aware the artwork does not belong to them in writing.
This should help keep any confusion out of the way for future issues.
JoshLoring
New Member
Colin said:
If they ever ask why later, we tell them we do layouts at a discounted rate to help our clients succeed. We don't just give artwork away so that we as the design company can help to maintain their brand integrity. Warn them that another shop or printer could ruin or degrade the quality of design we worked so hard with them to achieve.
MatthewTimothy
New Member
Sorry about the boat you're in Colin. From my past experience I would always classify logo or artwork as "designs" with the arrangement of a copyright for reasons of this nature.
J
john1
Guest
Great answers here, How do you guys know a fee to charge for releasing the "artwork design files"?