Extreme Makeover - The Entries

[Fred Weiss]

Fred,

Marlene and Rob bring up a good point. What if the one that everybody is voting for wins and then it's shown that the job can't be done for $995.00?

~G.

Just as the specifications were set down and were not followed by some contestants, the same is true for many of the voters. I don't feel it is my place to say this is a job that can't be done for $995 and to disqualify it. That is for the voters to say by not voting for it.

It was probably a bad idea to even tie a budget to the contest, but all entries will remain in the competition.

 

[Checkers]

Hey Geary,
The prize for this contest is that you get to complete the project according to the specs and provided design, then brag about it here
I will say that there are a lot of great looking designs, and I could make good money on them if I get to choose the fabrication method. I just wouldn't guarantee how long the sign would last though
At the end of the contest we should ask for input from the designers, allowing them to describe their design and fabrication methods. Then choose a few to critique and say what is good or bad about them.

Checkers

 

[Geary]

It's Easy

If you can’t follow simple rules, how will you ever make it in ANY business ??

I know, I know!!!.........I work out of my garage. I can do it for that price!!

(as you know bro...I DO indeed work out of my garage nowadays...but, I WOULDN'T do it for that. hehe....)

~G.

 

[iSign]

Fred,

Marlene and Rob bring up a good point. What if the one that everybody is voting for wins and then it's shown that the job can't be done for $995.00?

~G.

When I mentioned that earlier I noted that while Fred originally said entries that did not comply with the rules would be disqualified... he later said:

"This is starting to get way too complicated class. In the final analysis, the entire student body will be the judge (with their votes) as to who stayed withing Jim's budget and who did not."

So I think it was up to us to judge with rules in mind. Personally I'm not seeing that, but that's just me...

Maybe the leading entry is a $200 digital print of custom carved finials & custom welded posts & brackets, & a $600 design (awesome by any standards!) slapped on a $100 sheet of painted MDO, & made to look like a post and panel sign :Big Laugh

 

[Geary]

Just as the specifications were set down and were not followed by some contestants, the same is true for many of the voters. I don't feel it is my place to say this is a job that can't be done for $995 and to disqualify it. That is for the voters to say by not voting for it.

It was probably a bad idea to even tie a budget to the contest, but all entries will remain in the competition.

Yeah, but you know what brother? ....this is going to make the point I've said all along. "The DESIGN is what matters in sign making." Talent and experience ALWAYS sanctifies the winner!

~Gear


ps.....Doug......Good point with the digi print on MDO!

 

[Marlene]

Since this is just for fun and pretend, I pretended that the design I liked and voted for was the second design the person did. The person did a design that fit the budget and then designed a really good one. I pretended that it was an upsell.

 

[iSign]

I pretended the current leaders design has already been built, (within budget AND profitably) so I could snap this pic:
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guess I was wrong about the $100 worth of MDO :Big Laugh
(no offense intended... once again, I concede that the current leader is one of the most awesome designs at any price)

 

[Geary]

LOL. Yes, and I'm actually laughing out loud.

 

[torgy97]

it seems the budget went out the window... there were a lot of designs (much better than mine) that could easily be made for $1000, but I doubt some of the top designs could. But, I do respect those designs a lot as well.

I come from the school of thought not to ask a customer about budget, so that it doesn't affect you. I design and sell what I think the customer needs, at a price I will profit from.

On the next challenge, I suggest general guidelines, (as with this one), but no price constraints... maybe some financial background on the business. Let the winner be chosen just like there were multiple bids on a job. Different designs, different prices.

 

[njsigns]

I personally know that I aimed to stay within the budget. Had I thrown that budget out the window I could have given Jim an awesome sign, but he was too cheap and I don't work for peanuts. I gave Jim the best sign I could for his budget while remaining profitable for me. Maybe in this imaginary world of Jim's every US dollar is worth 3? If so, I'm moving there today!

Lets also imagine for a minute that the design in the lead was posted in a "how much should I charge" thread. If the designer said he/she was thinking of charging $995, they would be slaughtered here, regardless of their location or fabrication methods. I agree the design is awesome, and I mean no offense, but I can't imagine that sign fitting in Jim's budget on any planet.

Are we comparing apples to apples here? I'm not trying to sound like a cry-baby, but I thought the purpose of this assignment was to have a design that would work for Jim's business and budget, but more importantly, remain profitable for MINE. Just a few thoughts....

Gene

 

[SignosaurusRex]

The current leading entry is a fabulous design. A very nice display of creativity and design skills. Very excellent work! No doubt that the sign can be produced within budget guidelines. The design alone is worth the $995.00, If it contains ALL of what the customer requests. Jim (for all intents and purpose) requested the following items to be included in the design proposal... 1) Business name (JIM'S EMPORIUM). 2) Phone number. 3) ARROW or DIRECTIONAL POINTER. As the customer, my question while reviewing the proposal, would have to be, "Is this really what I requested"? Very nice! yet missing 33% of the request and wrong name. Food for Thought. I don't mean to be harsh, but thats reality.

 

[Replicator]

With thirty votes so far the guidelines are just out the window.

People are voting on that tremendous design alone, and it is great ! - NO DOUBT.

 

[javila]

While the leading entry sure is pretty, it would look more in place for a bar.

 

[Jillbeans]

I think the budget portion of the challenge, while made with good intentions, added confusion.

But all this designery stuff doesn't really work for me with this type of job. It's not really a logo design, it's a sign layout.
If I were to charge someone $900 for a sign design, I wouldn't get many jobs.
Not to stir the pot.

If Jim had actually approached me (which would never happen, as you can tell by his sign which is about 5 miles down the road from me) he would have asked for pretty much what he already has...red block letters on a white background.
You can lead a customer to a fancy design, but you can't make them buy it!

Some of these layouts are really great, and it was hard to choose just one.
Love....Jill

 

[Marlene]

That's the sign I voted for and unless it's made with cardboard, there is very little chance of it coming in at the budget price. I just loved it and in my pretend world, I think Jim would too and would spring for the extra to make it.

I didn't design a sign for the contest as in the real world, I wouldn't be able to design a sign, make it, take down and dispose of the old and install a new one with new posts so I would have had to tell Jim to take a hike or pony up some more cash.

 

[iSign]

Just as the specifications were set down and were not followed by some contestants, the same is true for many of the voters. I don't feel it is my place to say this is a job that can't be done for $995 and to disqualify it.

I agree... the price point is one that we all weigh in on differently on this board... and in the final analysis... it's a judgement call... rather then a clear infraction.

However, with the observation of the missing arrow... I think the integrity of this, & all future signs101 contests requires that this omission be looked at that & held it up to the scrutiny of the stated rules... which is not for us in the peanut gallery to do.... but it seems much more appropriate to suggest after Rex's observation.

 

[iSign]

I didn't design a sign for the contest as in the real world, I wouldn't be able to design a sign, make it, take down and dispose of the old and install a new one with new posts so I would have had to tell Jim to take a hike or pony up some more cash.

I see some entries used the existing structure. If this job, & this budget were offered to me, I would reface the existing panels with .032 aluminum & cut or printed vinyl. If I didn't have to drive too far, it could be quite profitable by any standards, and include a few hours of design work as well.

 

[Marlene]

I would have done a reface too, but it wouldn't have won any contest, it would only have looked newer with better looking letters. To win a contest, it would have to be more than like the pretty one that's getting all the votes. You could, maybe do the reface, but all the extras cost cash plus the poles would have to be reworked either by wrapping them or painting. almost forgot the custom brackets. those alone would cost a good deal of cash.

 

[Gino]

With today’s rip, fart and print programs, I think this price would’ve been totally possible with almost any design along with on-site installation. The posts certainly appeared strong and the panels could’ve had any substrate overlay on it.

Heck, my first entry which wasn’t listed as an entry, even allowed for beer afterwards.

I believe the rules along with the apparent appearance Cheap Jim had, this could’ve been accomplished. These are parameters that customers lay down everyday for their signs. If your everyday work isn’t a contest, what are you creating ?? If a ‘Masterpiece’ isn’t called for, why are you wasting your time ?? The biggest lesson here I believe is being able to follow simple rules or not, not who designed the nicest picture. Remember folks, we’re selling signs… not always blends and pictures.

As Jill said, many did not follow the rules and just did effects in a program. The goal was to create a sign and get Cheap Jim a new sign, not a ‘Marketing Plan’.
Jill told us he was cheap.
Jill didn’t want to stir the pot……..

Hey……..

This is all your fault Jill, for submitting this picture in the first place. lol :Big Laugh

 

[Checkers]

Man, what a bunch of whiners!

Even though the voting still has a long way to go, we have a pretty clear winner. And, YES that sign can be made and installed for less than a grand and YES, you could make money doing it if you're set up to make those types of signs.

My materials for the design being singled out could be a half sheet of 1/4" thick mill finish aluminum, digital prints, PT posts, hardware, paint and concrete. Assuming I use materials and processes like this on a regular basis, I would figure that the materials alone could retail for about $550.

I still have about $450 for labor, which would be worth about 5-6 hours of labor in a good shop. Knock off an hour for the design and I still have 4-5 hours to finish assemble and install the sign. So, how difficult is it to spray some paint, mount some prints and screw a few screws?

Not that I could or would work like this every day, or charge prices based on my costs alone, but it is possible to make signs like that, at that price and still make money.

One of the many issues about this approach is you'll burn out quick and there's a lot of potential for mistakes, which can cost you a lot more in the long run.

Checkers