Getting started as a hobby

[Malkin]

We need a smilie with a torch & pitchfork...

oh, and welcome from ME.

 

[mikey-Oh]

We need a smilie with a torch & pitchfork...

hahahahhaa!

howdy from oklahoma

 

[iSign]

We need a smilie with a torch & pitchfork...

oh, and welcome from ME.

I gotta do a search.. I swear I've written that same post many years ago... at least once :Big Laugh

 

[Replicator]

 

[Mosh]

This is NOT signhobby101. These jokers are doing this for fun, or to save money from having it done professionally. NOT for a living. So why should they get all of our know-how and then go out and cut in on people doing it for a living? BTW NOT all new people are flamed this way, only the hooby ones and the really stupid ones! I got arrested at the last jo-ball's place who tryed this in my town, so this is nothing new to me! (not convicted of any crime)

 

[studio 440]

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Food for thought......for all...
Someone walks into your shop, introduces themselves......like many newbies do here, much the same way WGRoper and other before have. Now, ask yourself, Whats your response? Really think about it before you honestly answer yourself. We all know what that answer is or would be 95% of the time. Now, why should it be any different here on a forum? We all (those that have been around this biz long enough) have witnessed the deterioration of the trade. The trade in many cases has become so polluted that the customer doesn't know the difference until the damage has been done and it is usually the Professional that feels the lasting effect. To say that, "If a Professional takes care and is on top of their game, they wont be affected by the hobbyist" was once true but nowadays is shear nonsense and those that believe otherwise are simply being foolish or have not been conscious to the impact. Sure there are some exceptions largely due to geography and market share etc,. How many of you actually know how many shops that do some or all of what you do, are in your area? Do you know how many are underground, basement, kitchen table operations that aren't legit? How many of them are hurting your bottom line? How many of them are right here, right now, reading this, or anything else that you may post? If a newbie gets the third degree, so what! It works to help weed out the Riff_Raff. If they are serious and want to be Professionals, they'll survive, learn, contribute and prosper. If not, well then...good riddance. That's what the premium section of this forum is supposed to be helpful with, but we all know that the bottom feeders and hacks find their way there too. Dan hit a note with his post that rings so damn true. There is a lot of really talented Professionals that are now gone and/or don't contribute what they could because of the influx of not the "Wanna-be's", but rather the narrow-minded hobbyist hacks that gradually suck the life blood out of every Professional in this trade. At least the former are that.....Wanna-be's, and many of them go on to become Professionals. They persist through the initial tough room to grow, show what they are made of and, contribute, and in many cases become a part of a family of like minded tradesmen and tradeswomen. Becoming close friends and sometimes family with those very ones that dished out the initial hard and sometimes brutal welcome. If the entrance exam, however impromptu, and administered by a posting majority of his or her peers is too tough for the newbie to handle without mommy running to their aid, guess what? THEY AIN"T GONNA MAKE IT!

 

[Techman]

Seems like the most vocal are those who own a shop or owned a shop and had to seal with low ballers and hacks and jacklegs.

The more tolerant are those who are employees of a shop or those who are just starting out or those who were noobs without any previous sign shop experience.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Seems like the most vocal are those who own a shop or owned a shop and had to seal with low ballers and hacks and jacklegs.

The more tolerant are those who are employees of a shop or those who are just starting out or those who were noobs without any previous sign shop experience.

BINGO!!!

 

[ProWraps]

i dont post anything on here about my work for several reasons. which regardless, when you come to the homepage of this site it reads in BOLD TEXT:

"If you are making or are seeking to make signs and graphic products for your own needs, you have entered a community where you are not welcome. Please do not attempt to register. "

i also dont personally care which direction the site decides to take, as its not my resource. but when it does take one, i do care if it sticks with it. and in this case, it didnt. hence the 3 pages of worthless back and forth posts pitting people on this site against each other...

either delete the text on the homepage, and cater to newbs, or enforce what is hung on the front door.

bigdawg, i appriciate what you did to get to where you are, etc etc. but your views as an admin of this site, seem to be in contrast with its own policies.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I would like to know Fred's response to this thread. He has been very quiet on it!

Fred has an uncanny ability to step in only when it really becomes necessary. I'm sure he has many more important things going on in the background. Most of the time, these little spats run their course in due time.

I would guess that these kinds of threads have appeared here more than 1,000 times in the seven years we've been around. We allow them to run because censorship is not something we do easily and we're perhaps a little jaded by all of them.

But this thread tells more than one story. To be sure, the OP demonstrated in his opening post his lack of understanding of the nature of the community he joined. And he later posted some clarification which coulda/shoulda turned out the lights. But the other side persisted ... attempting to know what they do not know and state insinuations not founded in fact ... which ultimately led to the angry responses of the OP.

To the other side I say: PLEASE! Learn to use the Report Bad Post button instead of jumping to conclusions, replying without enough facts to form any valid conclusions, getting people upset, and turning members off and away from Signs 101. Consider that every new member has passed a preliminary screening and has been approved to join us. If the new member lied, tell me and allow me to check further into it. Confronting these "intruders" and "usurpers" ... evil forces of non-professionalism, is frankly not your job and above your pay grade.

Signs 101 is a lot of different things to a lot of different members. But the core of our reason for existing is to improve the craft by encouraging professionalism, craftsmanship, and knowledge by helping one another whatever the experience level of each member. We all pretty much do this of our own free will and, yes, every member is also allowed to speak their mind. But let's all try to be a little less presumptive and a little more giving of the benefit of the doubt.

In other words, it would be preferred if everyone would stick to the regular stuff and leave the law enforcement to the admins. See a problem? Click the Report Bad Post button or PM an admin.

And yes, I live a very busy life and common courtesy shouldn't have to be explained or intervened on every time a thread like this comes up. We let them play out for reasons already explained and also because that is often the best way to get a better handle on the facts before taking any action.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

With all due respect Fred, I think he was pretty damn clear in his first post and even solidified it with his next post that he was a hobbyist.
Yes, you are right in that we all should learn to use the "Report Bad Post" button. I'm sure that would be a better "first step" in membership being more self policing.

 

[Fred Weiss]

With all due respect Fred, I think he was pretty damn clear in his first post and even solidified it with his next post that he was a hobbyist.

And it should also be noted that semantics ... particularly in a text only environment, comes into play here. When I read his second post, I felt he was using the word "hobbyist" to describe something that was the beginnings of a part time business creating and selling signs and graphics. In his registration he clearly defined himself as someone who wanted to eventually work something he cared about into a profitable business.

You and others may not have had as much of an insight into the OP as I or other admins may have had but this guy still qualifies for membership here IMO and I think the veterans should have a little more faith in their admins and work with them to improve what is a difficult process of screening members. Just because a member has a different understanding of a hot button word than you or others do does not justify jumping to the conclusions that were evident in this thread.

There's a big difference between someone who goes out and invests in equipment, software and supplies because he'd really like to learn to do the work (from a well liked merchant here I might add and who probably sent him here), and someone who feels like the local professional charges too much and comes here looking for advice on using the equipment, software and supplies he bought so he could make his own signs.

That's what we screen for and spend a lot of time doing it.

Dan Striker is correct in that a lot of very qualified folks don't participate here, but it isn't only because their words might be read by someone they would prefer not be able to read them. It's also because the lack of courtesy and rudeness to new people is often so outrageous.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

And it should also be noted that semantics ... particularly in a text only environment, comes into play here. When I read his second post, I felt he was using the word "hobbyist" to describe something that was the beginnings of a part time business creating and selling signs and graphics. In his registration he clearly defined himself as someone who wanted to eventually work something he cared about into a profitable business.

You and others may not have had as much of an insight into the OP as I or other admins may have had but this guy still qualifies for membership here IMO and I think the veterans should have a little more faith in their admins and work with them to improve what is a difficult process of screening members. Just because a member has a different understanding of a hot button word than you or others do does not justify jumping to the conclusions that were evident in this thread.

There's a big difference between someone who goes out and invests in equipment, software and supplies because he'd really like to learn to do the work (from a well liked merchant here I might add and who probably sent him here), and someone who feels like the local professional charges too much and comes here looking for advice on using the equipment, software and supplies he bought so he could make his own signs.

That's what we screen for and spend a lot of time doing it.

Dan Striker is correct in that a lot of very qualified folks don't participate here, but it isn't only because their words might be read by someone they would prefer not be able to read them. It's also because the lack of courtesy and rudeness to new people is often so outrageous.

Respectfully Noted.

 

[Bradster941]

it would be preferred if everyone would stick to the regular stuff and leave the law enforcement to the admins.
See a problem? Click the Report Bad Post button or PM an admin.

.

..

 

[iSign]

Someone walks into your shop...
much the same way WGRoper and other before have. Now, ask yourself, Whats your response? Really think about it before you honestly answer yourself.

My shop? ..any of us, in our OWN shop, where we alone make the rules?

I can answer that... in fact I can tell you what happened today... a windsurfer came in asking about quotes to 8 sponsor logos printed on my $30K printer, so the advertising value of those logos would justify some board sport manufacturer to fund this athlete in their little sweetheart deal, riding free boards in our pristine waves... The fact that it was some Euro athlete, and Euro manufacturer notwithstanding, when the second question was about selling enough of 2 colors of vinyl from my well stocked $5K inventory selection so her "friend" could cut the logos to save this board sport company some money... I told this "athlete" that would be like me seeing a competitor approach from behind in a race.. and I gestured with body language, and I lay my hand out like Vanna White & say after you, as though letting a little old lady cross the street...

..so, I think your "friend" should put tens of thousands of dollars into competing with me if they wish, but I won't be sacrificing my competitive advantage out of some damned "aloha spirit" ...I'm in it to win it!

We all know what that answer is or would be 95% of the time. Now, why should it be any different here on a forum?

why? ..here at Fred's place? ...where he makes the rules.. tries to maintain his chosen attitude, and personality of "his place" tries to earn his keep & pay his bills through his chosen business model for this community... why should it be any different here then in my shop? ... simple, because Fred chose different rules!

 

[Fatboy]

Wow. Tough crowd.

Is there some sort of signmaker's union I've ticked off by showing an interest in making my own signage for fun and profit? I'm not trying to deny anyone any of their hard earned business, if it's earned business in the first place.

I didn't come here to incite or be berated, I was looking for information on the sign business and I thought I had found it.

Ideally, I'd love to open my own professional shop, but unfortunately I've got mouths to feed and can't quit my day job to pursue this as a fulltime career or to be an apprentice to an experience signmaker or whatever it is that you require to be worthy.

Maybe one day.... but not now.

Thanks to those of you that offered me a genuine welcome. I appreciate it.

I never post in these new member forums when I join a board, this was an exception. Boy, did I learn my lesson.

Shame man. Sorry about some of the harsh reply's.Welcome here from South Africa

 

[Fatboy]

It gets very old watching every new person go through the "grilling" from a couple of the same people over and over.

And listen to how anyone new just isn't a REAL signmaker if he doesn't meet THEIR criteria.

Guess what Gino (and I'm answering you directly although you didn't say you were talking to me... cuz I'm pretty sure you didn't know)...

I learned to make signs on the internet. Actually from this very board before it was a hatefest for newbies. Back when people like yourself actually helped. Combined with a whole lotta research and talking with my vendors and asking questions.

Asking questions is how you learn...

Nowadays y'all would have kicked me to the curb... pronto... because I wouldn't have fit your idea of what a signmaker really is...

Maybe I should just hang it up now because I can't handpaint a sign to save myself, I've never apprenticed at another shop... and I still have to ask questions to ascertain the right way to do things...

I must just suck.

Well said.Lets rebell against that kind of rudeness to newbies:ROFLMAO::U Rock:

 

[Dave Drane]

Ahhh what's the matter Gino You seem a bit quiet now that someone has shut u up.You think you are always right and your patronizing welcome from PA greeting everytime someone poses a question without introducing themselves.
I fear your time is up here sunshine on this forum and suggest you retire to the oldies section where you can moan and grump all day cos that's how you come across ...A grumpy ol man!
P.S Welcome from CT!

Well my lips are almost buttoned on this one because by now everyone should know my opinion, but this POS needs his ass kicked.

 

[fmg]

Well my lips are almost buttoned on this one because by now everyone should know my opinion, but this POS needs his ass kicked.

Uh Oh another self righteous ol timer gettin in on the drama.
God u gotta love this place for a bit of entertainment!