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I just won a bid and need advice! HELP :)
- Thread starter appstro
- Start date
Wow! Thats what I am talking about!!! Thank you Jeff, for taking the time and effort to help.
Thanks JhillDesigns for your pricing guide.
I have under priced myself for sure.
I am going to call them back and tell them that I am sorry but I will either have to raise the price to $2200.00 or walk away. I will explain that I forgot to add in special translucent vinyl pricing and my own labor costs for the design to the estimate. They will probably laugh their butts off and hang up on me
Thanks JhillDesigns for your pricing guide.
I have under priced myself for sure.
I am going to call them back and tell them that I am sorry but I will either have to raise the price to $2200.00 or walk away. I will explain that I forgot to add in special translucent vinyl pricing and my own labor costs for the design to the estimate. They will probably laugh their butts off and hang up on me
SignManiac
New Member
Perhaps but at least you won't be losing money on this job and you have now just learned a valuable lesson which will help you on the next quote.
And old seasoned sign guy I once knew offered up this advice to me when I first started out. "If you're going to work for nothing, you might as well go fishing instead"
And old seasoned sign guy I once knew offered up this advice to me when I first started out. "If you're going to work for nothing, you might as well go fishing instead"
Lol, here's the email I just sent..
I am so sorry. It appears that I have grossly miscalculated the estimate. I did not add in the cost of the special translucent vinyl or my cost for applying the graphics to the signs. My new estimate is much more and I certainly understand if you decide not to use my services. The very best price I can offer you at this time is $2200.00+tax delivered. Once we have your design finalized, I will need your installer to remove the panels from the light boxes so I can measure them exactly and get the radius for the corners. Then, it will take me a week to do the manufacturing of the signs. You will be without signs in the boxes for about a week. I will then drop them off to you and your installer can put them up. By doing the job this way I can guarantee fit. I will guarantee the vinyl (only) for 3 years. You will be responsible for any damage to the signs during installation.
I am so sorry. It appears that I have grossly miscalculated the estimate. I did not add in the cost of the special translucent vinyl or my cost for applying the graphics to the signs. My new estimate is much more and I certainly understand if you decide not to use my services. The very best price I can offer you at this time is $2200.00+tax delivered. Once we have your design finalized, I will need your installer to remove the panels from the light boxes so I can measure them exactly and get the radius for the corners. Then, it will take me a week to do the manufacturing of the signs. You will be without signs in the boxes for about a week. I will then drop them off to you and your installer can put them up. By doing the job this way I can guarantee fit. I will guarantee the vinyl (only) for 3 years. You will be responsible for any damage to the signs during installation.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Sounds fine, not quite professional, but I would leave out your last sentence about his breaking or doing something wrong. No sense putting fears into him which have no bearing on your part at all. He breaks them taking them out or putting them in.... it's on him. Just YOU be very careful when handling used sign faces. Just when you think they can take a bow...... they snap.
phototec
New Member
Ok, reading through the entire tread and knowing more about your experience and how this project is going, I have a suggestion for you, which could help you lean and make a little profit for your labor on this job. Follow these five (5) steps.
1. Have the customer open the cans and take down the sign faces, give them to you, (if you want, you can do the sign faces on ground level to get experience).
2. Take the old sign faces to your shop to use as templates, (especially since you say they have rounded corners, you need to get the radius correct), place the old faces on top of the NEW polycarbonate you purchase from your supplier, and mark for size, cut all four panels with tools you have, (jig saw or router). like many others have said, this is the ONLY way to get the true measurement of the sign faces and guarantee the fit.
3. Next remove the protective cover sheet from the polycarbonate and apply the NEW 48" wide translucent green vinyl to the entire sign face using a Big Squeegee laminating tool (you can get a 30% discount as a Signs101 member) use coupon code s101 when ordering.
4. Now, using you 24" plotter and some very cheap vinyl, cut you graphics for the reverse images, and apply on top of the green translucent vinyl to use a template, and using and good quality swivel X-acto knife, cut around your temporary applied graphics, after cutting, remove the double layer of vinyl reveling the white polycarbonate below.
5. Do this for the other sign faces and you will have paid yourself to learn how to make these sign faces in your shop with your equipment. Deliver new sign faces to your customer, get paid.
Winning
1. Have the customer open the cans and take down the sign faces, give them to you, (if you want, you can do the sign faces on ground level to get experience).
2. Take the old sign faces to your shop to use as templates, (especially since you say they have rounded corners, you need to get the radius correct), place the old faces on top of the NEW polycarbonate you purchase from your supplier, and mark for size, cut all four panels with tools you have, (jig saw or router). like many others have said, this is the ONLY way to get the true measurement of the sign faces and guarantee the fit.
3. Next remove the protective cover sheet from the polycarbonate and apply the NEW 48" wide translucent green vinyl to the entire sign face using a Big Squeegee laminating tool (you can get a 30% discount as a Signs101 member) use coupon code s101 when ordering.
4. Now, using you 24" plotter and some very cheap vinyl, cut you graphics for the reverse images, and apply on top of the green translucent vinyl to use a template, and using and good quality swivel X-acto knife, cut around your temporary applied graphics, after cutting, remove the double layer of vinyl reveling the white polycarbonate below.
5. Do this for the other sign faces and you will have paid yourself to learn how to make these sign faces in your shop with your equipment. Deliver new sign faces to your customer, get paid.
Winning
anotherdog
New Member
I think the issue is that this happens a thousand times a day in this industry. Likely the job will get done, the quality will be okayish and nobody will get killed. It may not be to code, the faces may not quite fit, but 25 ft up who will see? He may even cover his costs.
I'm betting if he does more of these his price will climb to a much more realistic level and he will have business taken out from under him by some new guy working from his basement.
Thing is that the customer can't have high expectations given he has taken a quote that is at least half of all the others.
Just another day in signs101
I'm betting if he does more of these his price will climb to a much more realistic level and he will have business taken out from under him by some new guy working from his basement.
Thing is that the customer can't have high expectations given he has taken a quote that is at least half of all the others.
Just another day in signs101
anotherdog
New Member
Ok, reading through the entire tread and knowing more about your experience and how this project is going, I have a suggestion for you, which could help you lean and make a little profit for your labor on this job. Follow these five (5) steps.
1. Have the customer open the cans and take down the sign faces, give them to you, (if you want, you can do the sign faces on ground level to get experience).
2. Take the old sign faces to your shop to use as templates, (especially since you say they have rounded corners, you need to get the radius correct), place the old faces on top of the NEW polycarbonate you purchase from your supplier, and mark for size, cut all four panels with tools you have, (jig saw or router). like many others have said, this is the ONLY way to get the true measurement of the sign faces and guarantee the fit.
3. Next remove the protective cover sheet from the polycarbonate and apply the NEW 48" wide translucent green vinyl to the entire sign face using a Big Squeegee laminating tool (you can get a 30% discount as a Signs101 member) use coupon code s101 when ordering.
4. Now, using you 24" plotter and some very cheap vinyl, cut you graphics for the reverse images, and apply on top of the green translucent vinyl to use a template, and using and good quality swivel X-acto knife, cut around your temporary applied graphics, after cutting, remove the double layer of vinyl reveling the white polycarbonate below.
5. Do this for the other sign faces and you will have paid yourself to learn how to make these sign faces in your shop with your equipment. Deliver new sign faces to your customer, get paid.
Winning
This is exactly how I would have done it a couple of years ago.
Tim Aucoin
New Member
Not that anyone will give a hoot but... I must say how extremely PROUD I am of EVERYONE who has given such great advice to appstro in this thread. I was where he is at one time, and I can relate to his situation completely. We all have to learn somehow from someone and when I see a thread like this one where excellent advice has been given AND taken, well, I can't help but feel extremely proud to be a part of this community! WOW!!! 
And to top it off, I have learned a TON of stuff reading through this too! Phototec... your summary is brilliant! I have never chased this kind of work in the past, but reading this thread has taken the fear out of facing a project like this! It helps that I can cut 60" vinyl, but Phototec's method is brilliant for those who can't!
You should all be proud of yourselves for HELPING appstro learn and grow!
And to top it off, I have learned a TON of stuff reading through this too! Phototec... your summary is brilliant! I have never chased this kind of work in the past, but reading this thread has taken the fear out of facing a project like this! It helps that I can cut 60" vinyl, but Phototec's method is brilliant for those who can't!
You should all be proud of yourselves for HELPING appstro learn and grow!
tsgstl
New Member
I didn't read this whole thread so I have no idea where you are at with this. But I see all of your sizes are less than a full sheet. I also see that you are in a large area. Your prices are way too low but I'm sure I am the bazillionth person to tell you this.
NOW if I was in this situation I would call EVERY sign supply company you can and see if they have any damaged 4'x8' sheets of acrylic. Most supply companies have a bin where they keep such things and they LOVE to get rid of them. You can most likely knock off almost 50% of your sheet good cost this way. Acrylic sheets are almost always in theese bins with a corner knocked off which is perfectly fine since your whacking it off anyway.
sorry if this has already been mentioned
NOW if I was in this situation I would call EVERY sign supply company you can and see if they have any damaged 4'x8' sheets of acrylic. Most supply companies have a bin where they keep such things and they LOVE to get rid of them. You can most likely knock off almost 50% of your sheet good cost this way. Acrylic sheets are almost always in theese bins with a corner knocked off which is perfectly fine since your whacking it off anyway.
sorry if this has already been mentioned
Ok, reading through the entire tread and knowing more about your experience and how this project is going, I have a suggestion for you, which could help you lean and make a little profit for your labor on this job. Follow these five (5) steps.
1. Have the customer open the cans and take down the sign faces, give them to you, (if you want, you can do the sign faces on ground level to get experience).
2. Take the old sign faces to your shop to use as templates, (especially since you say they have rounded corners, you need to get the radius correct), place the old faces on top of the NEW polycarbonate you purchase from your supplier, and mark for size, cut all four panels with tools you have, (jig saw or router). like many others have said, this is the ONLY way to get the true measurement of the sign faces and guarantee the fit.
3. Next remove the protective cover sheet from the polycarbonate and apply the NEW 48" wide translucent green vinyl to the entire sign face using a Big Squeegee laminating tool (you can get a 30% discount as a Signs101 member) use coupon code s101 when ordering.
4. Now, using you 24" plotter and some very cheap vinyl, cut you graphics for the reverse images, and apply on top of the green translucent vinyl to use a template, and using and good quality swivel X-acto knife, cut around your temporary applied graphics, after cutting, remove the double layer of vinyl reveling the white polycarbonate below.
5. Do this for the other sign faces and you will have paid yourself to learn how to make these sign faces in your shop with your equipment. Deliver new sign faces to your customer, get paid.
Winning
Thank you! I will absolutely keep this in mind for future reference
We'll see if they email me back 
royster13
New Member
I dont want to abuse this privilege, so I wont use it too often, BUT would you guys mind if I did this when the next big job comes up? BEFORE I SEND AN ESTIMATE! Seems like there should be a "what should I charge" section somewhere on this board
You get that when you go over to the "dark side" (lol) and buy a premium membership......Well worth it if you are still learning your trade....
phototec
New Member
Thank you! I will absolutely keep this in mind for future reference
I dont want to abuse this privilege, so I wont use it too often, BUT would you guys mind if I did this when the next big job comes up? BEFORE I SEND AN ESTIMATE! Seems like there should be a "what should I charge" section somewhere on this board
I'm not a premium member, but I have read on here, there is more pricing info in the premium section, maybe you should join?
This thread that you posted has already saved you from a $1,000.00 mistake.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
We win almost everyone of our bids before getting a deposit. Usually we get an e-mail, phone call or the signed and dated quote. The deposit usually follows a day or so later. In the time between getting the verbal and signed go ahead vs. the actual deposit, we'll discuss things, but nothing on our end is purchased or started except my time and effort towards getting the job scheduled and onto floor.
The main difference in this thread is he won the bid without knowing what he was getting into or how to do it. That's the part that is a little scarey to me. He hasn't received or spent any money on this job, so he's still safe in my opinion.
The main difference in this thread is he won the bid without knowing what he was getting into or how to do it. That's the part that is a little scarey to me. He hasn't received or spent any money on this job, so he's still safe in my opinion.
Marlene
New Member
did you just bid this with an e-mail? no quote with terms? if so, write up a quote sheet that has your terms meaning, what you expect and what they can expect. lay out in the bid what you will be providing for materials & services. if the customer changes the scope of the job, they quote doesn't apply and you don't have to back track and try to get more money, you just revise the quote. it is much ore professioanl than sending an e-mail with some prices in it. keep on posting here on the site as there are so many here willing to help and just reading the threads is a great value when it comes to how to quote a job. good luck!
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Not that anyone will give a hoot but... I must say how extremely PROUD I am of EVERYONE who has given such great advice to appstro in this thread. I was where he is at one time, and I can relate to his situation completely. We all have to learn somehow from someone and when I see a thread like this one where excellent advice has been given AND taken, well, I can't help but feel extremely proud to be a part of this community! WOW!!!
And to top it off, I have learned a TON of stuff reading through this too! Phototec... your summary is brilliant! I have never chased this kind of work in the past, but reading this thread has taken the fear out of facing a project like this! It helps that I can cut 60" vinyl, but Phototec's method is brilliant for those who can't!
You should all be proud of yourselves for HELPING appstro learn and grow!
Tim.........
I think what you noticed here was someone who is still starting out and doesn't have that hissy know-it-all attitude when given constructive criticism. He didn't get bent outta shape when he found out he did some things wrong and he's honestly trying to fix or mend some of his ways. This guy will make it. He's eager and wants to learn. He seems earnest and even though his reply e-mail was a bit awkward, he still was trying.
Yes, it is great to see everyone come together as one and make this site what it is....... NUMBER 1
What crazy thing is going to happen next ?? Will Addie come back and be acceptable to these kinds of comments ?? 
Guerilla Signs
New Member
Thanks
Where is the "how much should I charge" section? I got the premium membership now but I dont see an area for quote evaluation...
This is what you are looking for.
http://www.signs101.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=242