I need major help!!!!!!!

[iSign]

I speed a little bit & like to accelerate into corners too, & I wore a helmet before...so since my shop truck hauls pretty good...

how would I set up a few races to make a little payday now and then to fill in the income a little now that sign prices have been dropping? I mean I good with the G forces an all that... used to ride the tilt-a-whirl a LOT!

oh... we're on a second page already...
opps... the bashing is over already

I miss everything workin' these longer hours from the diving prices.

Anyway, Pat has given you great advice!

I even have a 30" plotter with stand & a copy of Flexi-basic (or was it starter?) that runs only that ploter (Sieki or something) ...and I'm selling it for $300... but not shipping it... anyway, hopefully you can get a decent second hand plotter. That could serve you better, especially if it's up & running & the seller gives you a quick lesson.

 

[jjones1]

de ja vue

5 years ago I was into drag racing. We were going to an event out of town which was a pretty big deal. I wanted my car on a shirt for the event. After checking with the local screen printer, it was cost prohibitive. I know why now. After we got back from the race, the local screen printer called and offered me a 4 color 1 station press. I bought it with no knowledge of screen printing. I started reading everything I could find on screen printing. I bought a heat press and hooked up with Barber and Company ( Dixie Outfitters) I did their line for several years on an internet store that I designed and did pretty good. ( I had no experience in web design) I read a lot!! I kept reading up on screen printing and started with used equipment and made money on the old 4 color . I kept the money in the business account seperate from my personal account. I used that money and bought a plotter on ebay and made enough money with that to by a Graphtec plotter and put it to work (no experience with vinyl) I bought the standard clip art files and Omega software. ( I read a lot) I made enough off my vinyl and the 4 color printer to buy a 6 color 4 station screen printer. Made money with that and bought a used Falcon outdoor and a daige laminator which paid for itself within 3 months. I am still in my shop at home but we added on and the shop has grown to twice it's size. I'm not getting rich but I'm making a living. I have several large accounts and do smaller jobs as they call. My goal is a 2 day turnaround on all products.

My point?? I am not a sign shop and I'm not a screen printer. I did not have any experience. I did not get much help localy. I built a business that I enjoy in an industry that is challenging and fun! A lot of people told me it would not be profitable. A lot of people told me I didn't have any experience and couldn't make it.

5 years later!! All my equipment is paid for. My shop is outfitted with pretty much everything I want to do. I have access to an automatic screen printer if I need it.

My niche is the stuff the big shops don't want to do but I have access to the big shops when I need to. I don't turn down work as long as it is profitable.

There is something in America called inititive and drive. I have both those things. Anything can be accomplished but you have to try.

I have no words of wisdom for the fellow wanting to buy a cutter other than if thats what you want to do, GO FOR IT! keep asking questions, sift out the ones you don't need.

Your in the right place! If you want to do something, hang with those that do it.

 

[Gino]

I have no problem with anyone or anything trying to get into any line of work. Of course, what I think or say doesn’t mean a hill of beans either, but what strikes me as being a bad attitude or lousy direction is your last statement….. I have run the numbers and its not for the MONEY I can tell you that. Your comebacks are all fine and inspiring to others that are debating to make the big step or not. However, many of us here are doing this to put food on the table, pay employees, kid’s clothing, pay taxes and health insurance along with everything else needed to survive in America these days and with an approach like that…. you are helping put people out of business that deserve a profit for it being their only source of income. Sure, this is America as I said, but to do something as a hobby is one thing… such as for yourself or a relative or some friends…. but to enter into the work force with your disregard for business and to not care to profit…. is just plain wrong.

I applaud anyone trying to make a living in this industry and at any level, but not when you cheat out others doing it. That is not a form of business that anyone enjoys. I don’t mind losing a bid to a competitor for price, turnaround, quality or anything else business related, but because you don’t want to make money or know how…. I think your real question here is…. how do I determine a business plan and make a business out of this…. not a destruction derby as in your other hobby.


As for jj…..

Yes, there are those of you that are dedicated to working this business and do their homework and work it as a business… on a small or large scale… it doesn’t matter, but no where did you say…. you aren’t trying to make money. You said it right…. initiative and drive. That’s all it takes….. and some basic knowledge to get yourself going.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I race gokarts and want to start doing vinyl lettering on them as a side job to make some extra racing money. The guys that do this and really make it, (make them bling).

I have run the numbers and its not for the MONEY I can tell you that.

I'm confused??? First you say you want to do this to make money, then you say that is not what you are trying to do. So which is it?

I'm with Gino on this one.

If you want to do graphics for just the fun of it, that is great. Do it for yourself. But when you cross that line and start providing a service to others without the intent to make money, you take business away from those who do this for a living. Not only that, but because making a profit is not a priority for you, you are able to sell what we sell at a fraction of the price, which lowers the standard of what we do to make a living.

If there are enough people that do this in our industry (and there are already more than enough), it really hurts all of us. Not only do we have to compete with prices set too low to make a profit, while our prices continue to rise, but we also have to compete with the misconception that what we do is sooo easy, that with $1000 and very little experience, anyone can do it. This mentality hurts our industry and because of it we lose respect from our clients.

I'm not worried about competing with price, we have found ways to deal with that. I do worry about our future clients not respecting what we do.

Now why would anyone decide to do what you are doing? Because someone wanted to charge that person twice as much as someone else who isn't trying to make a profit? twice as much as a person who is just doing it for fun? who does it as a hobby rather than for a living? Well... yeah... they are charging twice as much, they are trying to make a profit. That is what people do when they run a business.

Do you want help picking out equipment because you think the local shop is charging too much? Well I got to tell you. You can spend much more than a $1000 to find out that is not the case, or you can spend only a fraction of your $1000 and help support your local businesses.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean, I'm saying this because you need to understand where we are coming from. The sarcastic comments and bashing aren't because you are new, they are because they feel what you are doing hurts our industry.

You came on here asking for help picking out equipment, I hope you can walkaway from this thread learning much more.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Call me paranoid, but...

Read Moon604's first post... note the grammar and punctuation. Then read Moon604's second post. I'm no detective, but I'd almost think they were written by two different people. There is definitely a difference in the flow, the confidence level of the writer and in post #2, all the "I's" are caps unlike the first!!
Again, call me paranoid...

 

[Pat Whatley]

Man you're paranoid. Put the aluminum foil hat back on and get back to work.

Damn Canadians.

 

[iSign]

Man you're paranoid. Put the aluminum foil hat back on and get back to work.

Damn Canadians.

LOL...

I hate typing lol, because I almost NEVER laugh out loud... but that was retty funny Pat!

Joe & Gino have summed the situation up quite well in my opinion!

 

[Mikeifg]

I get pissed to. I have an autoparts store I buy from regularly and they've seen my van know I have a sign shop. Well the other day one of the guys there is telling me he has a race car of his getting stickered in some guy's garage. He had baught a cheap vinyl cutter because it's pretty easy to do. It's the Garage I think I'm a sign shop guy that is killing the industry for all of us that have the overhead the skill, passion and desire to live the american dream not the Walmart Fantasy. etc.. Always a redneck buddy out there cutting "In Memory of 3" decals because he can do it cheaper. Hate to say but the old sign painters were right about the computer killing the industry with no talent and a bunch of clip art you can wow anyone to think you came up with it. 25+ years ago you had to have skill to do this especially if you hand painted signs there was no way to fool someone there. So to all the cheap newbies who are in it to be cheap and kill this industry I give you a big California Wave.(Middle Finger) Go race carts and stop dreamin about how you can make an extra 50.00 a day cuttin pissing so you can earn beer money.

 

[Moon604]

Show of Hands

How many of you guy have lettered a racing go kart. I bet its few and far between so i dont really see how I would be taking food off your table. If I came on here wanting to make signs that would be a different story. As far as what I charge, I can only charge as much as the next guy. I can do better work and spend more time on it but at the end of the day its Racing. You go out there bump and get tire rubs and it looks like crap. So Im not going to get paid anymore for the extra work.

 

[Mikeifg]

Better yet I'll let you come to my house and knock the food off my table while me and my family eat. Because that is what your doing. Alot of us have alot of Time, Blood Sweat Tears and Divorses in this biz We're tired of the ones in here who want to cut out the local sign guy who is too expensive.

 

[Mikeifg]

I've lettered plenty of Karts for nothing. I've raced them for years too. Not a cheap sport by any means but cmon When you get someone who wants to pay for a really cool design it's rewarding. I'm not going to cut out my doctor because my mechanic want's to be a proctologist.

 

[iSign]

How many of you guy have lettered a racing go kart. I bet its few and far between so i dont really see how I would be taking food off your table. If I came on here wanting to make signs that would be a different story. As far as what I charge, I can only charge as much as the next guy. I can do better work and spend more time on it but at the end of the day its Racing. You go out there bump and get tire rubs and it looks like crap. So I'm not going to get paid anymore for the extra work.

even being in the karting world, the kart graphics will end up few and far between for you too... and if you have a vinyl cutting setup in your basement, you will end up selling cut vinyl to anyone who wants it... that is a highly likely scenario, and you would have every right to... but at that point if you were here stating the challenges of serving the variety of clients you would end up with & then the need to learn about specialty materials, installation challenges & pricing, pricing, pricing...

well then you would be like the other half of the most common threads around here... sign people admitting they WANT to be sign people, but being newbies & hoping to learn the right direction to head off in & avoid common pitfalls...

....and at that point, there will still be a few here who resent the newbies who stuck a cutter in the garage & decided they WANT to be sign people, because learning by getting a job with a sign company is a little more realistic... but you will have at least risen from the race guy wanting to cut out the ripoff sign guy... up the ladder to the ex-race guy/newbie sign guy... and even though there will be some amount of resentment, there will also be an increase in the genuine help you will find here.

I've done work for about 6 Kart guys, over a 2 or 3 year period. Then it stopped. I think someone they raced with must have bought a vinyl cutter. I couldn't care less about that work drying up... but I would not be as helpful about teaching that guy the trade if I thought he was not charging fair market value... his hobby might be giving away stickers at cost & my hobby might be coming here helping people learn the sign business... but I offer advice on the Business side of the sign business, just as much or more than the Sign end of the business... if a hobby guy doesn't want to learn the business side of charging fair market value, then he has NO business expecting to get free training from those he would seek to lowball in the marketplace.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

If that's what you want to do, Moon, that's fine. Just don't come to the professionals looking for advice. Good luck with all that.

And JJ, you say you're not a sign shop. So do you, moon. Don't people have to say they ARE a sign shop in order to be a member here?

 

[Gino]

.


Let me explain a little scenario with you Moonie……

Years ago, before the days of computer…. when anyone in the racing industry wanted a car lettered, numbered and striped… guess who they came to ?? Nope, not the shoe store clerk….. nope, not the cement foundation guy…… they came to a sign painter. You know what else ?? They paid for anything we did and we even got little incentives to paint dazzling race cars. In fact, it became an art form and we all tried to out-letter our friends or competitors. Yeah, we all wanted our cars to win best show and be noticed so next year we got even more cars between January and May to letter. Well, as you probably don’t understand, based on your comments, we were young and did them for a good price and enjoyed it… until we started a legit business. Then the whole thing changed and while racing season wasn’t happening we had to letter something….. seemed signs was the next best thing and you know what… we made a ton more money lettering signs and as we gradually raised our prices…. the racers would look for the next new kid on the block that could letter half descent and give him the job. As years went by, that new guy learned the ropes and moved onto signs and either worked for another shop or maybe opened their own. Back then, most shops had 2 or 3 up to 15 guys lettering, screening or doing electric. You didn’t have all these one-man shows. They couldn’t handle any load whatsoever and we could control the workflow with numbers. We were a 9 man + 4 part-timers shop in the 70’s and early 80’s

Move ahead to the computer and digital age and now the newbie is some tight-wad who can’t stand to see someone else make a profit and gets his supplies online and at John’s Bargain Basement. You offer nothing. No original artistic talent, no desire, no will, no money, no knowledge, no nothing other than you got on a website committed to helping others in this trade that are here for a purpose.

If you find this harsh… too bad. No one ever promised you a free piece of the pie and if you can’t man up to a few questions…. have you thought about opening a tanning salon ?? Now, there’s a business that doesn’t take any talent…. just a little capital.

Sorry Moonie, but your mindset seems to be the same one much of the country is using these days wanting everyone else to do their work for them and defend themselves for existing.

Well, I’m defending my right to work with fellow sign people and not cheapen this industry or this site any further.




.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Man you're paranoid. Put the aluminum foil hat back on and get back to work.

Damn Canadians.

I suppose you're going to make fun of my dog next??!! :ROFLMAO:

 

[Mikeifg]

Gino you got my vote.

 

[skyhigh]

I have had local shops do my stuff and charge $ 300 or more for one body kit. In the last few years more guys from the karting world are starting to cut vinyl, with low budget plotters and maybe a $ 1000 program. They charge around $ 120 per body and spend about 5 hours total on them, by the time they design, cut, weed, and install. I love the sport and just want to do something in the karting industry. I have run the numbers and its not for the MONEY I can tell you that. If you have any helpful info please PM me. Thanks,

So use them???

If you do get up and running, it makes me wonder if you will under bid them to get your share of the market??

Go Cart kits for $95, and you will take over the market.
Ohhhh, and don't worry so much about killer designs to start.....you'll find alot of work from price shoppers.

 

[Bigdawg]

so for a mere $24/hr... less actually because you have vinyl, transfer tape and a cutter that have to be paid for... you can strive for mediocrity in the business... lovely.

 

[Joe Diaz]

How many of you guy have lettered a racing go kart.

Our shop used to do lots of race cars and yes even a few go karts. The race car jobs where like any other job here, and we made a profit off of doing them.

Then somewhere down the line, race car drivers in our area started buying their own equipment. NOW, we don't do race cars hardly at all anymore, and race car drivers tend to be bad customers. Why? because most (not all) don't respect what we do. They want it Cheep, they want premium quality, and they want it now. They want us to compete with someone who doesn't have to deal with overhead, supporting a family and paying bills with money made by doing this work. And it's like this all over the country.

It's not the competition that upsets me, it's the attitude towards the whole industry that has been changed by this mentality that with a little bit of money and very little effort, you can do what it has taken many of us years to hone. It's the cheapening of our industry that upsets me.

And if these guys just stuck with the racing industry it wouldn't be as bad, but the hobby guys around here also "dabble" in the sign industry as well. They don't get permits to do a job, they don't check with zoning before they put up a sign, they use their same cheap 1 year vinyl used for race cars to do an outdoor sign that is supposed to last... and it reflects on our whole industry.

People start losing respect for all sign makers, or worst yet, expect poor quality and unprofessional behavior from everyone in the industry.

My major fear is that after the race car guys the plumbers will start thinking they can make their own signs, then the restaurants, then the truck drivers, and so on....

 

[jjones1]

If that's what you want to do, Moon, that's fine. Just don't come to the professionals looking for advice. Good luck with all that.

And JJ, you say you're not a sign shop. So do you, moon. Don't people have to say they ARE a sign shop in order to be a member here?

What? Are you the police or something? Are you emplying that you are a sign shop? Does that mean I can't have an opinion because I don't call my business a sign shop?

I read this somewhere "People don't buy a drill bit because they want a drill bit, they buy a drill bit because they want a hole.

I am in the customer service business. My customer wants a sign, screen printed items or a website.... I get them what they want. I am not a sign shop,
I am a GRAPHICS AND DESIGN FABRICATOR AND EXPEDITOR!!!!
dUNN DUNNN duuunnnnn!!!!

I guess because I enjoy what I do that means I am not a professional or am I? I do work for profit!!

Lighten up!! The guy asked a simple question. If ya didn't want to help him ya didn't have to bash him. It's not like he lives in your neighborhood.

My new job title is a little childish but I'm 50 now so I can do what I want.