Major Issues with HP Latex 310

[xkellyx]

We purchased our HP Latex 310 in November of 2015. Almost immediately we had issues with image quality (which we posted about on here). With help of HP Tier 3 support, we were able to get the machine printing well enough.

At that time the engineer we were working with created a profile for us to use. On a recent call with level 2 support they were shocked to find out we were printing with an 18 pass profile and even more shocked when we told them and then PROVED that a level 3 HP engineer had created the profile for us.

The machine has been covered by the original warranty and then a maintenance contract.

We are not a high volume shop. Over the past few years, we have had to have support on-site to replace numerous parts which have failed. We print mostly inexpensive promotional decals/stickers. The trailing cable and tubes on the machine have been replaced three times.

We are currently dead in the water. When printing dark saturated colors, it creates what appears to be some form of overspray. For instance, if you have a heavy black print with a white knockout, there will be black ink artifacts in the white area. The second issue is that the ink is not curing properly. Especially with dark saturated colors.

Our HP tech has been on site for three weeks now. He has basically replaced everything from the pinch rollers to the heating system and fans. We have tried three different sets of print heads, replaced the carriage, the trailing cable, and tubes (which incidentally were leaking AGAIN just not bad enough for us to notice yet) as well as numerous other parts I can't remember.

The issue occurs regardless of the media or profiles used. HP has sent out media and profiles for us to test on. Curiously, the ink not curing issue is particularly bad on the Print all Plots which is printed from the printer interface and is independent of the RIP. The overspray/haze issue is also visible on all the tests printed directly from the printer (again without the RIP).

Another really interesting fact is that we printed a test print and shipped it to the Engineers at HP. The print was dry and did not smear when we touched it after it was printed. It was also "dry" when it was put in the tube at FedEx by our Tech. Yet, when it reached the HP Engineer it had "re-wet" (his words not mine).

The machine is housed in a climate controlled environment in the North East. Humidity and static have been excluded as an issue. One engineer theorized the overspray/haze could be from aerosols not burning off properly and suggested running the machine at a higher temperature. Which makes little sense since the entire machine was in pieces yesterday, which I would assume would let the aerosols dissipate.

Furthermore, the overspray/haze has a recurring pattern at times, which could indicate that it is not random particulate landing on the media and curing. It also only occurs in the areas in which ink is printed and not outside of those areas even though those areas are exposed to both the inside of the machine as well as the heating units. If aerosols were the culprit one could expect artifacts to land in any whitespace, not just the white space in the area printed.

My tech is out of parts to replace and said that he thinks they will be sending an engineer to our site. Has anyone who is printing on a Latex experienced anything like this?

My current thought is that the printer had a fundamental issue from the start which the profile provided by HP covered up and now it is no longer working.

To say that I am frustrated is an understatement.

See photos below.

 

[papabud]

i am a user of hp latex.
i have the hp360 model.
not much difference between the 2
have you tried running fewer passes to see how that effects everything.
i print a decent amount on my machine on several different substrates.
i think we got our machine about the same time as you.
i created my own profiles.
in the whole time we have had the machine i called service once. that was simply because the machine counters requested a maintenance kit be preformed on the machine.
i get great quality and run normally a 10 pass profile.
a few banners i will run 20 pass. paper blueprints its a 6 pass

the profile you create is used on the machine end and your rip end. so printing from the machine control panel will still use the created profile. i would suggest using a default profile or one created by the material manufacture.
every different substrate from every different manufacture requires different profile settings.
make sure your material is stored in the room with your printer and its never left exposed or touches the floor.
dont use any fans in the room that can blow dust around and into your machine.

 

[EffectiveCause]

HP user here. It almost looks more like something is contaminating you substrate than it does over spray. Also if you are running 18 pass and have your heat settings turned all the way up there is no reason you should be getting uncured prints. You might check to make sure the altitude setting on your machine is set correctly.

 

[xkellyx]

HP user here. It almost looks more like something is contaminating you substrate than it does over spray. Also if you are running 18 pass and have your heat settings turned all the way up there is no reason you should be getting uncured prints. You might check to make sure the altitude setting on your machine is set correctly.

We have debunked it being a substrate issue as the results are consistent across a variety of substrates. Including the media shipped to us by HP for testing purposes. I only use the term overspray because it is what both of the HP techs have been calling it who have been on site. My Tech did mention issues with the 300 series in higher altitudes but he ruled that out as well.

 

[xkellyx]

i am a user of hp latex.
i have the hp360 model.
not much difference between the 2
have you tried running fewer passes to see how that effects everything.
i print a decent amount on my machine on several different substrates.
i think we got our machine about the same time as you.
i created my own profiles.
in the whole time we have had the machine i called service once. that was simply because the machine counters requested a maintenance kit be preformed on the machine.
i get great quality and run normally a 10 pass profile.
a few banners i will run 20 pass. paper blueprints its a 6 pass

the profile you create is used on the machine end and your rip end. so printing from the machine control panel will still use the created profile. i would suggest using a default profile or one created by the material manufacture.
every different substrate from every different manufacture requires different profile settings.
make sure your material is stored in the room with your printer and its never left exposed or touches the floor.
dont use any fans in the room that can blow dust around and into your machine.

Yes, we have tried multiple profiles and pass settings with consistent results. We have run multiple passes on different types of media- same results.

We have had to call for service many times. Black ink exploded out of the left-hand side of the machine and all over wall and floor due to the tubes failing. The tubes failed again and dumped optimizer all over our prints. Recently, the tubes had to be replaced because the cyan failed at the where it connects to the carriage. It's been fun.

We haven't reached the point of maintenance kit one yet, which is why all these issues baffle both me and my tech.

We have been running tests using the media provided to us by HP for testing with the HP provided profiles loaded on the machine (which we downloaded for testing). We have central air, so there are no fans blowing into the machine.

 

[papabud]

that is rather odd. i have never had a tube leak, let alone explode.
but with everything you have described. i would put my money on an electrical surge issue.
extra electric would cause the voltage in your heads to be wrong. and fire oddly.
extra voltage in your ink pumps would cause it to surge pressure blowing out tubes.
other signs could be you getting a zap randomly when you touch the machine. display flashing funny, fan speed changing oddly
this is just my random thought.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Static issue? We get something like this on our solvent machine. We chop it up to a static issue. Almost exclusive to prints with large dark coverage.

 

[xkellyx]

that is rather odd. i have never had a tube leak, let alone explode.
but with everything you have described. i would put my money on an electrical surge issue.
extra electric would cause the voltage in your heads to be wrong. and fire oddly.
extra voltage in your ink pumps would cause it to surge pressure blowing out tubes.
other signs could be you getting a zap randomly when you touch the machine. display flashing funny, fan speed changing oddly
this is just my random thought.

Interesting. I will certainly bring this up and see if we can prove/disprove this theory. I've never been zapped by the machine. We've had two different techs work on it over the past three weeks and they haven't been zapped either. I can't say that I've ever seen the display flash or noticed the fan sounding off. The other day when they installed the new tubes (again) the pump was running constantly. But, this was due to a hole in the airline (out of the box!). The first time the tubes went our tech was surprised he told us that he never has to replace tubes on the models. The second time he was super surprised. The third time (it was still under warranty) he told us to RUN to get a support contract, which, we did. The funny thing is that they have all failed in different places. I asked if there was anything that I could be doing or if there was an issue with the machine that could be causing these failures. The answer I received was no.

We also run a variety of other machines in the shop and haven't experienced any electrical issues. But I guess it could be something specific to this outlet/breaker.

 

[xkellyx]

Static issue? We get something like this on our solvent machine. We chop it up to a static issue. Almost exclusive to prints with large dark coverage.

One of the phone support guys had suggested this. However, our environment isn't conducive to static. The tech working on the machine doesn't think it's static.

 

[papabud]

yes much like your techs i am at a loss about your machine.
the machine its self is a work horse. but i have seen a lemon in every batch. might even be a board issue.
i am sorry your machine has give you this much hassle. i just love my machine. its easy to use, never lets me down, and color is almost always the same...

 

[Johnny Best]

They (HP) should just replace your machine with a new one.

 

[TimToad]

Couldn't the tech or the supplier you bought the printer from bring another one in, run some prints from your profiles and see if its a mechanical problem in your machine or if its software related?

 

[FrankW]

There is an option in the Print Quality menu named something like „Optimizing colours and text sharpness“ (sorry, I haven‘t the english name in mind because the machines we sell are mostly set to german, french or italian language). It is the last item in the image quality-menu. If it is set to on, switch it off. Had some fine spray over white areas as long as this option is set on.

 

[Johnny Best]

They should have Lemon Laws on printers.

 

[AKwrapguy]

I rocking 2 570's. Could it be several issue but not just one but they are compounding each other?

Does the 310 use 220 or 110 for power? You could be getting unreliable power to the unit or the unit might not be grounded properly.

This is very unfortunate but please try to keep us informed and updated.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm surprised they are wasting so much time and parts on this machine and not just swap it out with another one. I assume you've asked about this but gawwlee your luck on this machine sounds beyond horrible.

 

[Pitzu]

Do a simple color test like I've described in this post (the last comment I've made): Need Help - Question - No ink getting to dampers
I've also attached some pictures to that comment.
You can see if the problem is on all channels or just one of them.

Just a thought.

 

[AGCharlotte]

I'm somewhat on the boat with the irregular voltage like some of the previous posters. I have a 310 and in 2+ years of running it, I've had none of those issues.

 

[AF]

Attorney time

 

[xkellyx]

Couldn't the tech or the supplier you bought the printer from bring another one in, run some prints from your profiles and see if its a mechanical problem in your machine or if its software related?

As I understand it, the techs on the ground cannot do anything without authorization from the engineers they talk to in the phone. The techs are parts swappers. The engineers come up with an "action plan" and the on the ground guys have to follow it, even if they know the plan won't make a difference.

The company we purchased the machine from is useless. They were terrible from the start. We had a particularity difficult install. None of the print heads worked out of the box, they didn't want to overnight replacements (it would cost too much), they forgot to send a media package and we couldn't run the printer with the media I had on hand. The tech was on-site for over 5 days, but it wasn't until the last day that we had everything we needed to test the printer. Within the first week we had to order multiple print-heads due to defective heads. I now wonder if it was the heads or the machine.....

We complained about the print quality from the start and they pretty much washed their hands of us and sent us back to HP. HP worked with us to get the quality of the prints up but from what I overheard from our on site tech on the phone with the tier 2 engineer, the quick fix they used may have damaged the machine (which is why they replaced the entire heating system.

About a week ago we had a different tech on site who was trying to figure out what was going on. He was on the phone with a level 2 engineer. The engineer told him to lower the heat. So, he did. Then he ran a bunch of tests, and of course the ink smeared right off. The raised the heat a little, but not enough, but ran more tests.

Fast forward to this week, when a level 3 guy gets lot logs and immediately accuses me of altering the profile and running the machine at too low of a temp. I let him know the logs he was looking at were from his Techs printing and not me. He also said that when he ran the tests on site at his location that he could not tell the difference between 10 pass mode and 18 pass. I told him that that may be true on his machine, but on my machine 10 pass looks abysmal. I got the distinct impression that I was being gas-lighted and brushed off.

I reminded him that we have two issues that need to be addressed before we can even get to the image quality issue

1. The prints are not curing even at proper temps.
This happens on a variety of medias and profiles. Including the media they sent us to print on as well as banners stock.

2. There is ink being placed on the sub strait in areas that it does not belong.

I honestly really like my on-site tech. He is has always been honest with me. We have had a really great working relationship over his MANY visits. He has always told me he has never had a 300 series with this many issues. Maybe it is a lemon....