Will be noticeable in upsample.
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Output method for LARGE file
- Thread starter TSC1985
- Start date
Are you sure? When googled, every page say LZW is lossless:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF
Lempel–Ziv–Welch Lossless TIFF 6.0 TIFF 6.0 Extensions; first defined in TIFF 5 (1988); a patented compression algorithm, but the patents expired in 2003 and 2004
Roto
New Member
This is why I don’t trust any compression. I requested native art and was denied. A bunch of vector generated gradients got flattened, compressed and embedded in Illustrator. It’s backlit, so all of these nasty bands will show worse. Especially the hard step to white.
Attachments
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
TIFF LZW compression is lossless. The PSD compression scheme has not been recommended for over a decade since the introduction of Adobe CC when they modified their own PSD format. TIFF along with LZW is an open source format and recommended for long term compatibility and handles the vast majority of practical Photoshop features but a very rarely used few.
These bands are not indicative of LZW compression issues.
eahicks
Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
That doesn't matter when creating a file for a large wall mural. Why have a 200GB file for a billboard, choking your RIP and taking up so much space, when a 2GB file will look EXACTLY the same from 20 feet away.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
Widely known in the industry especially among image creators such as photographers and ad agency leads not to mention some Adobe engineers themselves.
Does the PSD format not use compression by default?
What is the memory size limit of PSD vs TIFF?
bannertime
Active Member
The argument here is pretty pointless. You have the original creative/design files and then you have exported production files. Your original design files will be in an uncompressed format and your production files will likely be compressed or flattened to facilitate faster transfers and RIP.
Compression taxes every other step in your workflow, aside from the save dialog and on disk size.
A billboard, sure. What about a backlit print for a tradeshow at the same size but at floor level?
Still matter?
Maybe "pointless" for banners...
PSD does use a form of compression, but it alters the pixels differently and less than LZW...AND...you can utilize Adobe's non-destructive adjustment layers.
The memory size of a tiff doesn't really have anything to do with compression, does it? I mean can't you save the same pixel dimensions regardless of compression? So why compress?
To argue that .psd is not the best image format is silly. Photographers?! How many of them REALLY know about print?
Ad agency leads? Dealt with plenty of them that didn't know shit about output...
I have a dslr and raw files to psd give better image quality results than any other method.
You'll never change my mind there.
Just like in society these days, everyone is looking for that hack to bail them out...
Keep dishing out advice that is not best practice and selling substandard print supplies.
bannertime
Active Member
Andy_warp I typically don't get involved in drama, especially when someone starts to act like a child, but it honestly sounds like you may have read an article about file handling a decade ago and think you know a thing or two about it. You have your opinions, and you're more than entitled to them, but they're dumb. For one, this post is about exporting large scale graphics, and the methods you suggest are the opposite of what OP needs. Two, you're wanting to use a proprietary image format for production(print) files that contain mountains of unnecessary data that the RIP doesn't need. Wasting time, which waste money. Three, you haven't convinced anyone that you know anything about file compression. Four, resorting to low effort insults pretty much discredits anything you've said. "I'm right, you're wrong." People have provided you with facts and data and you've only shared opinions and an anecdotal image that really only served to prove you don't know much about print production, color management, and file exporting.
shoresigns
New Member
I'm not disagreeing with you, you very well could be 100% correct about the compression, just a side note;
I often have trouble with gradations, drop shadows, and some other effects when exporting from Corel Draw, regardless if I use compression or not.
When I have a file with those things, I usually convert to bitmap before exporting, or create my gradations, drop shadows, ect. in PhotoShop.
Solventinkjet
DIY Printer Fixing Guide
Check your rendering intent settings in the RIP. Usually drop shadows and gradients are rasterized effects. If your RIP is setup to render vector and raster images with different methods, any rasterized image that is overlapping a vector image will look funky.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
This has much to do with a plethora of settings, the interplay of art elements, and different RIP technologies used along with settings for those RIPs as well. It's a critical path, to be sure.
However, even if every one has every thing set correctly, certain subjects and elements can sometimes be challenging to print. Subtle, monotonous gradients being one.
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
Typically, the only time mismatched rendering intents make an obvious difference is when both a vector and raster art element of what should be the same color touch one another. Using different intents could produce that particular color as noticeably different. But yes, rendering intents should be the same for vector and raster in the RIP for this reason. Lots of published literature is mistaken to suggest otherwise.
I really have half a mind to report bannertime and shoresigns for bullying me on this website!
Psych!
I could give a rat’s ass what two people on a forum think I know! Hilarious!
Actually have seen both of you post intelligent solutions, but ok.
I’m told it “doesn’t matter, look at how we do billboards...”
That is not remotely the same as a showpiece fabric backlit print for a trade show! Is it?
I print stuff everyday where the file has been mishandled. Even product photography that is out of focus, or has quarter inch grain from when the photographer shot with iso too high. The reason most files from photographers are jpegs is because they don’t want to take the time to post process their raw files. They just want to set it and forget it, let Lightroom do half of my job.
Photos are really less of an issue, compression wise...it’s the software created graphic elements that go wacky with compression. Logos. Text. Gradients. But compression isn’t even the real problem in some cases. Designers want to copy and paste and swap elements from app to app, color space to color space, embedding and exporting. It’s a problem we all face. Every setting in the world isn’t going to give consistent results with any old pdf “ready to print” production file. We make our own from the native bits. We can control elements that should be the same, and ensure spot color continuity throughout a whole project. That way we can avoid the issues colorcrest and solventinkjet bring up about rendering intents at the rip. For most things you can print in a six foot printer compression can be moot. The OP is for larger images. Stuff I work with every day. Did I mention:
AVOID COMPRESSION??? F.F.S.
To AndyD, we come across stuff from time to time. We have a few tricks involving adding Gaussian noise layers subtly to add a little texture. Just have to watch out in the highlights so as to not add ink where there should be none. Be sure it’s monochromatic noise so color doesn’t mix in. It works pretty good to break up skies and gradients with very little contrast.
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