HulkSmash
New Member
Dead Serious.
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Postcard Layout
- Thread starter Locals Find!
- Start date
Dead Serious.
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
FORGE, Forge, forgetabouit, maybe it's you who's not getting it and never will. I know a guy who picked river rocks, painted them, and sold them as, yes you know, "paper weights" and is now probably better off than you and I combined.
Funny thing, when I joined signs101, I had many say "you never make it"; "give it up". I was a bit intimidated at first. The writings were nothing close to what I expected in this forum. Where was the constructive advice/criticism? I knew than where my heart was, in it for good so here I am, doing what I like to do, having fun, making a hundred here a thousand there. And to those who wonder how the heck I made it, I say this: keep at it, keep learning and 'sell sell sell'. If you like to see where it all started for me take a look at my mexican grocery store thread.
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Forge is not going to listen to your advice because it's not a good justification for bad design.
Your story about a rock painting paper weight is cute, but not in the same realm as the issue being discussed.
You have had constructive criticism and some not so good. I think I have only commented on one crit, and that was the market... and it was a mess of a design. That design selling is not design principle, the client liking it is not a design principle. Some comments about design turns into business principles... like, "your not going to make it" or "you need to hire a designer" We get design principles and business principles mixed up all the time.
What I dig about your statement is... your heart is in it, and you like what you do, and it's fun... and thats a good personal principle to have, it's how everyone should feel about their job, but it's not a design principle.
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To Adtechia:
I don't give a crap if you are a broker... that's cool with me.
My business principles critique is this:
Poor design is not a good for a design business.
Selling by the pound can be a good business process, but it does not always equal to the client getting what they need.
Giving the client what they want is a good principle, giving them the option of what they need is a better one.
Keep learning, Keep at it, Sell Sell Sell, but take the time to improve. You can not design like Dan Antonelli or Joe Diaz, but they have the option of designing crap. You don't have a choice of designing well. You may not ever design like them, but I think having the option to do well balanced, clean design is good for a design business and you will have more fun and be more profitable.
Stop justifying your business model as a recipe for success. You have no choice but to do crap work, stop saying it's a standard that should be considered. Tell us when you can design a decent layout. Just because it feeds your family, does not make it good for the industry... it just puts food on your table while giving your customers less than what they might need if they went to a qualified designer. Putting food on your table is not a business principle, it's a responsibility.
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There is another clown on this site that spouts a lot of crap, mostly about computers and programs, what that person needs to do is stop worrying about computers and design programs and start worrying about layout because he has worse skills than Addy, yet he doesn't catch half the crap Addy does. Addy, you need to stop worrying about being a crap designer and start learning basic design principles and apply them. You have done this long enough to do better work.
Stop posting work that was already sent to the client, post it in the portfolio section. Why would anyone help, when you already sent it out. It says to me you do not value anyones opinion but your own, and you are stirring up the pot. if you like to stir up the pot, you are no better than the people commenting on you harshly. Your not the only one, but quite wasting peoples time.
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Hey a constructive design critique!
Enough has been said about the layouts, they are a mess with no rhythm and very crowded.
You have a weak concept (newspaper?)
You can shorten some of the info to get to the point.
No real call to action.
Poor use of type and color.
Where is the branding?
Your justification for crowding the type is lame... make the type bigger because it's Florida and that way they don't need to wear glasses? Thats worse than designing a market to fit the ghetto. I wear glasses, I can't see a thing under 3/8". Most people will already have their glasses on when opening the mail. Your type was about 17-18 pts. That is big. But not big enough to read comfortably if you are wearing glasses.
My business principle of giving the client what they want, but the option of what they NEED is something I would apply here. That way the client has a choice, and you practice design principles at the same time.
Below are constructive layouts. One thing, I am not a copywriter. I have someone else do that for me, I only try to make things look pretty. On a quickie postcard, this is how I might have done it.
By the way there really needs to be a book about postcard layout and design. I collect them and have thousands of bad and good layouts.
On the option with all the info, that type is only 1 point smaller, but looks a lot less crowded.
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Locals Find!
New Member
dude, I don't give a ratsass if you use my copy writing suggestions, but if you don't even acknowledge them, ...be damned if I'll ever be giving you another one
Doug, I came back from lunch fired off a few replies and had to head out of the office. I haven't had time to rework anything yet. I am in here on saturday to do just that.
Rick, going to try and re-read your post a few times to try and absorb all that you said. I breezed over it but, some things really popped out I am sure there is more in there. Thank You.
I didn't write the copy that was given to me by the client to work with. Hiring a professional copy writer seems like a great idea. I had the same thought myself and already had made some inquiries into hiring one. Waiting to hear back.
I sent it out to the client because, its been on my desk a week and I needed to show some progress. I am working on a bit of a deadline. They want it to hit the mail in early October.
I figured I could get some feedback and re-work it or sub it out and present a much better option. That is why I posted it.
Ok, I am off to do some studying and some rough sketching on what can be done to improve this.
Thanks Again Rick, Doug & everyone else.
signworxonline
New Member
Very nice Rick! Your quick mock ups just perfectly sum up what everyone here has been saying ... that is the advantage a real graphic designer brings to small post cards and designs like this! Adtechia has probably taken way too much time on that design already, and its a project that should really take no more than a half hour to get out to the client and finalized barring a small revision or two.
Dan Antonelli
New Member
Awesome work buddy.
Pat Whatley
New Member
Heck yeah. That one was HALL OF FAME material.
ForgeInc
New Member
Rick, GREAT post, and good on ya for taking time to actually post suggestions. Something I rarely do because I don't like solving problems for people, but your post illustrates much more clearly and articulately what I said all along. My only hope is that Addie will absorb what you, myself, and others have said, and realize that spending time on the designs himself is benefiting no one, especially not his customers nor his business!
Addie, I am seriously dying to know what you think about all this? Have you considered what any of us have had to say? Why not...just for the heck of it, try and see if there are any hourly designers in your area hungry for work, and how much they'd charge?
Give it a shot. I SWEAR, this is the best advice you can get if you plan on staying (and more importantly growing) in this business.
I know from experience it can be done. There is a company here in portland I have been hired to do design work for on occasion in the past. They started years ago as primarily a print service broker, just like you. No equipment, no overhead, they just built relationships with clients and vendors alike. Well, their business model grew, and they ultimately transformed and re-branded into offering creative services as well. They now employ approx 25 people and are strictly a design service/project management company whose revenue is in the multi millions I am sure. The point is, the owners ARE NOT designers, they never even tried to be! But, they ultimately realized the value of hiring good creatives and having them on staff. It offered even more value and more services for them to profit on. It also substantially increases the image of your company and sets you apart from (sorry this is very frank) people like yourself who really are nothing more than a pimp marking stuff up for profit.
Don't get me wrong, there are many brokers in this business and I have even worked for many of them. The good ones though, offer some kind of quality service other simply having a pool of vendors who bend over backward for 'em.
I hope you take this for what it's worth, it's honestly meant to be good advice, not a mean, harsh critique as I admit have offered in the past.
Addie, I am seriously dying to know what you think about all this? Have you considered what any of us have had to say? Why not...just for the heck of it, try and see if there are any hourly designers in your area hungry for work, and how much they'd charge?
Give it a shot. I SWEAR, this is the best advice you can get if you plan on staying (and more importantly growing) in this business.
I know from experience it can be done. There is a company here in portland I have been hired to do design work for on occasion in the past. They started years ago as primarily a print service broker, just like you. No equipment, no overhead, they just built relationships with clients and vendors alike. Well, their business model grew, and they ultimately transformed and re-branded into offering creative services as well. They now employ approx 25 people and are strictly a design service/project management company whose revenue is in the multi millions I am sure. The point is, the owners ARE NOT designers, they never even tried to be! But, they ultimately realized the value of hiring good creatives and having them on staff. It offered even more value and more services for them to profit on. It also substantially increases the image of your company and sets you apart from (sorry this is very frank) people like yourself who really are nothing more than a pimp marking stuff up for profit.
Don't get me wrong, there are many brokers in this business and I have even worked for many of them. The good ones though, offer some kind of quality service other simply having a pool of vendors who bend over backward for 'em.
I hope you take this for what it's worth, it's honestly meant to be good advice, not a mean, harsh critique as I admit have offered in the past.
SignManiac
New Member
Huh?
Locals Find!
New Member
Forge, I am looking into to again subbing out to a graphics person. I have tried this in the past and had gotten mixed results. Either artists producing the same quality as work as me, or artist that were already brokers who just took my clients.
Now, that the economy is a bit worse. It may be time to try again. The true talent might be out there looking for the work and not looking just to add to their client list.
Hell, after really reading over and staring for hours this weekend at Rick's mock ups. I probably should just see if I could hire Rick. He would be worth every penny to my clients and business. Then I could focus on what I am really good at Sales & Relationships.
I really do appreciate you input Forge. I am trying to take all this advice in and decide how best to proceed.
10sacer
New Member
I haven't read all the posts on this - but in my experience of designing postcards - the purpose is for a call to action. if you put all the info on the card - there is no call to action and you confuse the reader who will just read it and ditch it (if they read it at all). Remember - you are lucky if you get 3-4% response rates from direct mail or postcards, so its gotta quick, recognizable and catchy. Who on here had to look up in Google what "wind mitigation" is?
Define the problem and give contact info and a hook. You want to get them on the phone with the client so they can "sell" their services to prospects.
Define the problem and give contact info and a hook. You want to get them on the phone with the client so they can "sell" their services to prospects.
John Butto
New Member
Addie the cook
His receipe postcard, and we are all in the mix.
His receipe postcard, and we are all in the mix.
johnnysigns
New Member
The internet's amazing.. Ten years ago the client would've just gotten a post card with lots of room for improvement. Cheers to you gents taking time out of your day to help this guy 
Locals Find!
New Member
That crap is way out of line. I posted the proof to the client before coming here. I am not stealing from anyone.
I don't know what your issue is John but leave me out of it. I am just trying to do my job to the best of my abilities. Man up if you gotta problem with me come see me and lets deal with it, don't hide behind your keyboard taking pot shots at me.
Forge, Doug & Rick & others have gone out of their way to try and help me do better in this business. I appreciate them for doing so. Your negativity is as bad as Gino's, It's pointless.
John Butto
New Member
I forgot #7 Denial.
busypc
New Member
Too wordy. I'd get rid of some of the text and add some background color. Beige is boring. People don't like boring. It's like going down the highway at 70 and seeing a screen printed sign on the side of the road. What do you see? People won't read it all, it is as simple as that! Make it short and sweet and include the absolute necessities. With all that being said, your customer may want everything and the kitchen sink on there....some people just won't listen to your recommenations. At least you will have tried...it's their business. It's their money!
