Real fire CD?

[Flame]

As some of you may have noticed, I have a thing for flames and fire.:Big Laugh And I love making digital prints with the fire effect, but have noticed that those image CD's usually only have one or two on there. So... I was thinking of making my own signfills cd packed with, simply, fire. Fire at night, fire in the day, red fire, blue fire, orange fire, yellow fire etc... All saved in JPEG format averaging about 1.6MB per image. Kind of middle of the road for signfills.

Was kind of wondering what the interest would be in something like this? Is that something that other people (ie. all of you) would want to buy. Fred, I know you have done plenty of clipart in the past, if there IS interest, how would you suggest I go about doing this?

Just kind of curious guys.

 

[Schultz Designs]

If I didn't lack the printing capabilities, I'd say sign me up. I live in an oilfield driven area and flames are always popular around here.

 

[iSign]

Have you seen our merchant member Barry's Digital Flames CD?

 

[Flame]

Have you seen our merchant member Barry's Digital Flames CD?

I sure have Doug. Mine would be a little different. For one it would be a heckuva lot cheaper. And 2, it would be cheaper cuz it isn't hand drawn stuff, only photoshopped photographs. You know, Taking digital photographs and then cleaning them up all purty in photoshop. That's all that those signfills CD's are, and people seem to buy "fills" like that all the time off of the web. I would collect around 50-100 images of fire alone, to use as fills for text, vector art, vehicle wraps etc.

That said, I will still probably buy Barry's real fire CD. I'll add it to my collection.

 

[Schultz Designs]

Oh, Have I!!! Yes, very tempting stuff. but can you just use them as a fill or background on a separate piece of work? Eg. digitally printed vehicle decals? or is this available in some form from aurora or something similar?

 

[Cadmn]

Kevin I bet someone on here can print for you

 

[Techman]

why don't you write a tutorial on how to make fire..

 

[Fred Weiss]

Is there a market? ... yes but unless you are going to structure them in layers in Photoshop to make them easier to modify or are going to perform some Photoshop airbrush artistry, I doubt you'll sell a lot. You also, IMHO give too little credit to folks like Dave Dorsey of Aurora Graphics or Carol Begin of Voodoo Graphique who don't just go out and take photos but actually create those items from scratch at huge sizes. If it was easy, as you suggest, there would be no market and everybody would just take pictures.

As to pricing, why would you propose to undercut existing artists? Do you really feel they're not entitled to some return for providing users with a collection that typically earns its cost back in the first week and goes on to earn profits for you for as long as you choose to use it?

This is what clients will pay whatever you want to have it on their car or bike. Not a photograph.

 

[Techman]

only photoshopped photographs.

Just for thought,, Why would I purchase photoshopped pics of fire,, when I could make my own? No matter how cheap you made them..

 

[Dave Drane]

As to pricing, why would you propose to undercut existing artists? Do you really feel they're not entitled to some return for providing users with a collection that typically earns its cost back in the first week and goes on to earn profits for you for as long as you choose to use it?

Haven't you noticed Fred that Flameboy is not a lowballer but still likes to undercut his competitors.

 

[Flame]

Ahem. Like I said, it would be cheaper cuz they wouldn't be layered files like Barry's. Barry does awesome work, and I don't meant to discredit him or undercut him. I simply want to creat a FILLS CD, like the one posted below...

http://www.signwarehouse.com/CA-VE-p-CA-GL-SIGNFILHLP.html

They sell it for $159.95 and all that is on it is pretty much good quality, close up photographs. I wasn't meaning to replace the "real flames" pack, simply have a ready CD full of source images if you wanted to say, throw in the fire effect on some text in Flexisign, or, do a quickie digital print on a mail box and wrap it in fire with a black background (done that once already. LOTS of fun). You know, just simple stuff when it would be nice to have the fire effect ready to use. I have run into this a lot myself so I am working on getting a bunch of source files ready for when I need them.

I was just wondering if there would be a market for this type of fills pack for other people...?

 

[Fred Weiss]

I was just wondering if there would be a market for this type of fills pack for other people...?

It's possible.

 

[Flame]

Just for thought,, Why would I purchase photoshopped pics of fire,, when I could make my own? No matter how cheap you made them..

Um, cuz you could have about 50 of them, ready to use and on a disc so you don't have to go out and do all the work yourself. In the time it took you to photograph and edit 5-10 pictures, you would lose more money in loss of labor on OTHER stuff than the CD would cost you. That's how ALL of the clipart/ signfills guys make their money. You know? I could go out and make my own clipart of all those goofy looking dogs, cats, cars etc. But why? It would cost me a fortune to sit down and re-create all of those myself. Rather just buy them all ready to go.

That's my mindset anyways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but would you rather save yourself (this is just an example) $100 by spending 10 hours photographing and editing pictures of fire, or would you rather spend those 10 hours making $75-$150 an hour making signs and just pay the retail price for the CD?

 

[Fred Weiss]

Flame Master, you're a hard guy to get a read on.

That last post was excellent logic, explaining concisely the value of clipart and stock photography. Comparing that to the previous clues as to your thinking I find myself baffled by your comments as to pricing strategy and other issues.

 

[Flame]

lol. Guess I really riled some people up over my pricing huh? I admit my pricing may be a little off, but I'm fairly new and have only been gauging it off of what my neighbors are charging, and what it would take to be competitive.

That said, I would also like to say I'm a little different than most sign shops, as about HALF of my work has nothing to do with signs. I make motocross graphics. You know, jersey lettering, chest protector nameplates, bike kits etc. In that world, you HAVE to have competitive pricing with everyone else, because while there are very few doing bike graphics, thay all advertise a LOT. Everyone in the motocross industry knows the going rate for these kind of products and if you're a little high you are going to suffer big time! Luckily there are only a few lowballers, and the going rate is actually quite nice. Good profits for easy to make stuff (once you learn how anyways...). I honestly wouldn't mind ONLY making motocross products, like what was in my original business plan. But... I found making signs and lettering vehicles is pretty good money too. So I decided to enter the "sign" biz as well.

I hope that gives atleast a little insight into how and why I price stuff. I know I have a long ways to go to get "perfect" pricing, but I am working on it and I would appreciate it if people could quit tagging me as a lowballer. There are plenty of others around here (ahem, my area) that are deserving of that term.

 

[Fred Weiss]

No I wasn't tagging you as a lowballer. I was just alluding to the many peculiar pricing mindsets we seem to get into in the sign and related graphic production fields. Mindsets that have to do with perceived value and imposing our own values instead of being more open minded and thinking beyond our own experience.

For example, an 18 x 24 coro brings in $30 and an 18 x 24 aluminum brings in $55 to $60 on average. The difference in materials is about $3.50 and the time is the same. See what I mean.

Your mindset with digital art appears to be based on how long it would take someone like you to duplicate the creation of the artwork. And it's probably effected by the prices you see for art mill CD's at computer stores and online sellers where you can supposedly get 600,000 art files for $50.

But consider this. You are actually selling the right to benefit from not just your time but also your expertise and to do so indefinitely and repeatedly. You are placing a limit on what you will receive from your licensee while the licensee is receiving legal rights to make an unlimited amount of profit from your work.

Now consider all the people who do not have the ability to do what you have done (or the desire to do it) but who may also be able to profit from your creations. Their numbers are legion and they far outnumber the people you know in your experience and who you believe will hold you to some artifically low pricing standard. These are the people who are "stupid" enough to be at places like FotoSearch, Comstock and Corbis or Getty Images and who will pay you almost as much for a single useful piece of work as you propose to sell an entire CD for.

Why would they? Because they can profit by acquiring rights to your work.

We sell to both markets. They are both profitable for us. But we recognize the disparity between, for example, 14 cents an image on CD to sign industry licensees for our Plotter Art Originals and the $25 per image, $1,792 per collection selling price our same images regularly sell for at FotoSearch.

Hope I made my point.

 

[Flame]

Hmmmm.... Fred, that post makes a person think. Honestly.

I wasn't trying to sound like I would try to sell my images cheap to take share of the market, if I can make good images then I would want a fair going price. I WAS saying I wouldn't sell it for as much as the "real flames" pack because simply put, it would be less artwork. It would be images rather than than vector (um... or did he do them in raster?) artwork.

Like I said, never tried something like this and I am willing to listen.





Oh, and Fred. I checked out Fotosearch for fire, just for fun. Here's a link to a kind of image like I am talking about. They want $100 for a 2MB image of it though! wow...

http://www.fotosearch.com/DGT081/cb108085/

 

[Fred Weiss]

$105 to $350 actually depending on the pixel dimensions. The image is from Corbis ... owned by Bill Gates and sold through Fotosearch under a licensing agreement.

Now if I told you that more people in the world everyday buy images from places like Fotosearch than they buy from low end sellers, would that surprise you? Raise your awareness?

You should not base your pricing and marketing strategies on the do it yourselfers. Nor should you base it on what Barry may appear to be doing. You should base it on what the most successful art providers are doing and getting. Make sense?

 

[wildside]

did ya notice all sizes and quality of those were RGB? when changed over to CMYK, it loses something....

i found that hard to believe, but it does lose something in the quality when converting RGB to CMYK.

$350 for a photo???? all the fire i do, i light up some napkins soaked in kerosene, and then use that one image to scale manipulate etc....

i can see paying 350 for the flames CD, that is something i do not have time to set down and do

but actual photos, i try and do my own whenever possible. for instance a vehicle wrap that they wanted business people on looking professional.... i ended up going to thier office, and just walking around the office grab a few photos and off to the races

 

[JMDigital]

Flame master - Whatever you decide I would be getting one. I do own the Digital Flames Vol 1 and the Voodoo Graphics set also. I love them both and are worth the $$. I would also buy your cd. Always could use some more flames, even if its photo fills it could come in handy..! I do understand you will price it to match the files. If they are cleaned up digital photos (8mp or 10mp) I can see them costing less then the Digital Flames or Voodoo cd's, as they are used differently.