Roland giving some money back ?

[Biker Scout]

If you put a pen in place of the blade holder, run your job, with lamination, registration marks un-laminated... and it still is way off then there is something wrong with the machine. But if it draws the line with the pen (at light pressure obviously) at the right spots on the graphics, then it's clearly your settings and your expectations of a wimpy machine. Again... I will reiterate: If your pressure is so great that the downward force overcomes the grit roller/pinch roller's ability to move the heavy vinyl back and forth, if it gets off only by 1mm in the beginning of the cut, then the course of 5 feet it will be off by over an inch. (60mm) The machine cannot compensate for skew, thickness automatically. It also does not have an electronic eye to follow contours of the graphic and the ability to self correct itself like some higher end machines do.

With 12mil lam, plus vinyl, plus release liner (even ink counts) your vinyl weighs quite a bit more tracking back and forth on the machine's pinch rollers. The smooth backing of the paper will also play a factor in slippage over the grit rollers.

I'd say, save your pennies... the first 8k you get, buy a Summa plotter. This will also free up your printer to just print, and not be a bottleneck in your production flow. You will make more money, and have faster turnaround times. Your customers will be happy.

Roland/Mutoh/Mimaki are basically all the same. They have entry level, semi-pro machines. Yes, you can make some real money with them. But they should be considered starter machines, and your profits should already be earmarked for something better down the road.

 

[VL]

Perhaps it is your digital file. Maybe it is corrupt. I would try making a test file. Something new and see if you have the same issue. I would also restart your rip computer, printer and unplug the Ethernet cable at both ends for 2mins. Also I would try a direct rip to printer connection, basically don't run it on the network because the router could be causing the issue ( might need need a new router)

 

[S'N'S]

I would be using a felt tip pen instead of the blade, you can wipe it off and once you work out the problem, you can cut it correctly instead of wasting more material.......or maybe buy a separate cutter for the time being.

 

[MagnificentBastid]

I'm curious what cut settings you are using, and what blade type. 12mil is incredibly thick for cutting on a Roland VS-300i.

I recommend that you slow your cutting speed to the slowest possible (5-10 cm/s) and slow your up-speed to match. If you run the cut again and this improves it, then you can slowly increase the speed until you get it to be the fastest it can be without screwing up the job. I would also recommend to make sure Auto-Environmental Match is enabled.

To me it seems like this is a feed issue. Since the laminate is so thick, it is putting a ton of resistance on the blade which could in turn be interfering with how much media is being fed through the printer during the cut.

 

[player]

Get your dealer to loan you a top notch cutter. Better yet, give you a new printer.

 

[mpn]

The reason for more than one pass is to give your machine a chance to cut the SUPER THICK MATERIAL !
Have you tried it yet?

Take a peek inside your manual and you'll see that 16 mil is max cutting thickness and you think it should be done in one pass?

I used to work with a guy running offset presses that thought more pressure = better printing until the press hit so hard you could feel it in the floor. ( his last day of course )

 

[autoexebat]

I will try the 2 pass setup today and see how it does , with my speed on 3 it should be slow enough !

Also remember it did the same errors with 8 mil as well , and also remember I cut 2 sets yesturday ! both were the exact same settings . One came out fine and the other was trashed. Files were not reloaded or anything like that.

It's a little harder explaining everything over the internet vs in person or on the phone , I'm sure I will get a call from my dealer tomorrow.

I uploaded the picture of the blade

 

[mpn]

Good luck, and I hope you get it figured out.

 

[autoexebat]

I think I posted this in your other tread... but what is the process you're using to line up the registration marks for cutting?

I line up the front parts with the strip , pretty much the same way I did it with the xc-540 , It never has an issue detecting all of the marks at all .. the issue I have is one is perfect one is bad , same blade force , same materiel same file and not re ripped.

I'm sure we will get it figure out pretty quickly this coming week , I don't have anymore 8mil but I ordered a big roll of it so I will give that a try. I can't remember how many issues I had with the 8mil but I will start keeping track. I am printing a kit now as we speak so I will post how it turns out, I didn't want to print it but the customer said he's going to file an ebay case if he doesnt have it by wednesday.

Will post back later on, I will do a 2 pass on this as well.

Force right now is 260 , so I need to figure out what I should run for a 2 pass ..

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions for all of you. I really do appricate it. :Big Laugh

 

[autoexebat]

It may not have an issue detecting them but it may be "misinterpreting" them... is what I'm getting at.

I dunno...I really hope Roland comes through for you because I think at this point we're all just shooting in dark.

I agree , As of now my print is done .. I'm off to do a few things , When I get back I will laminate it and do the 2 pass setup and see how it turns out. If it goes bad I guess I will have to do another refund

 

[phototec]

I have read the whole thread and I understand about your problem, and know you need to EAT, however, if you keep going as you are, filling up the garbage can with printed and laminated materials, you will soon not have any money for food!


You need to stop being so wasteful, and one way is to only print, laminate and cut one small graphic at a time. I know you are selling and printing kits which are comprised of several different parts, however every other kit goes in the trash can, so break the images apart, and try only printing, laminating and cutting individual parts.


Yes, this will take longer to produce, but it appears to me you have more time than money right now.


The up side is, you will only have to replace the individual parts that are cut wrong not the whole KIT!


And just for the hell of it, just maybe part of the cutting problem is the complex cutting pattern itself, so by reducing the complex cutting path, just maybe the printer will cut the individual parts correctly. At this point, I would give it a try and see if the printer can cut the individual parts without issues, because if the printer can't cut the individual part, then you KNOW for sure something is wrong with the printer.....


Good luck

 

[autoexebat]

I can't imagine cutting this section by section ..

 

[mpn]

Now it is a little clearer. That "should" be broken into 2 sections. I have given you settings in your other thread. The 540 wouldn't have a problem cutting it at 30" plus or minus length.

If you insist on cutting that in one file......... 12mil / 8 mil whatever on a 30 inch versacamm......... and not expect tracking issues

 

[autoexebat]

Now it is a little clearer. That "should" be broken into 2 sections. I have given you settings in your other thread. The 540 wouldn't have a problem cutting it at 30" plus or minus length.

If you insist on cutting that in one file......... 12mil / 8 mil whatever on a 30 inch versacamm......... and not expect tracking issues

I watch it track and I use a hole in the front of the machine as a guide ... I roll the material all the way to the back , then all the way forward to make 100% sure its not off track ! Sometimes it takes me a good 15 min to adjust it perfectly so it doesnt go off track at all !

That was a 50 inch long section , I've cut them over 60 and have been dead on.

I am now going to test the 2 pass cut , since I am cutting at 260 what should my 2 pass settings be ? sorry for the question but I have never done this before .

Thanks a lot.

 

[Z SIGNS]

I know someone else has probably said this.

Why don't you just hand cut it and be done with it till you can figure out if the problem is you or the machine.

After looking at your graphic that's how we would do it.
It's to simple of graphic to chance laminating and sticking back in the machine with the hope that it will work.

 

[mpn]

Setting the sheet and manually scrolling the sheet front to back won't be an issue, the issue would arise from the machine applying downforce with the blade.

+1 to handcutting it till the dealer solves your problem.

 

[autoexebat]

I know someone else has probably said this.

Why don't you just hand cut it and be done with it till you can figure out if the problem is you or the machine.

After looking at your graphic that's how we would do it.
It's to simple of graphic to chance laminating and sticking back in the machine with the hope that it will work.

I can't imagine doing a 100% flawless hand cut on graphics like this , I have shown an easy kit ..

I hardly ever cut the same thing twice , I have over 200 pre made kits for varios atvs and motorcross bikes...

I guess I could try to hand cut , but around the bends I don't think I could be as accurate as this machine !!!

 

[Z SIGNS]

I can't imagine doing a 100% flawless hand cut on graphics like this , I have shown an easy kit ..

I hardly ever cut the same thing twice , I have over 200 pre made kits for varios atvs and motorcross bikes...

I guess I could try to hand cut , but around the bends I don't think I could be as accurate as this machine !!!

From the pictures of the cuts your machine is making a blind person could be more accurate.

 

[autoexebat]

From the pictures of the cuts your machine is making a blind person could be more accurate.

HA yeah , well I can't really get away with doing hand cut's .. A lot of the graphics have holes in them as well for body bolts .. I can't cut a perfect circle .

Also doing kits for ATV's is very hard as most are younger kids and they LOVE to run their mouth ! I just got a message from a guy on eBay saying I was scamming him and he was going to contact his lawyer HAHAHA !

Tomorrow is Monday so hopefully something good will turn out ! I sure hope I don't have to make my graphics fit into 4 different files........ That wouls be a ton of work to do



Can anyone chime in and tell me about the 2 pass settings ? I'm doing 1 pass at 260 so Should I do 2 passes at 130 ?

 

[GAC05]

From the pictures of the cuts your machine is making a blind person could be more accurate.

Yep - hand cutting would be less painful than throwing good prints into the trash and sending a refund to my customers.
It's not as hard as you think.
Take some of those wasted prints out of the trash and practice cutting along the edge of your bleed.
Use an Olfa snap knife at an oblique angle, cut just the vinyl and not through into the backing.
Once Roland figures out what is going on you can put your knife away....

edit - from your post above about the circles - get an aluminum circle guide. If you can't find one large enough Home Depot has a large selection of washers that should foot the bill. Even a set of mechanic's sockets will work.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[Z SIGNS]

HA yeah , well I can't really get away with doing hand cut's .. A lot of the graphics have holes in them as well for body bolts .. I can't cut a perfect circle .

Also doing kits for ATV's is very hard as most are younger kids and they LOVE to run their mouth ! I just got a message from a guy on eBay saying I was scamming him and he was going to contact his lawyer HAHAHA !

Tomorrow is Monday so hopefully something good will turn out ! I sure hope I don't have to make my graphics fit into 4 different files........ That wouls be a ton of work to do



Can anyone chime in and tell me about the 2 pass settings ? I'm doing 1 pass at 260 so Should I do 2 passes at 130 ?

Oh please forgive my antiquated solution.
I just come from the old school where you had to at least be able draw a stick figure and hand cut a letter o.

I am curious why you insist on blaming the machine for the problem when you don't know how to check the box for the number of passes to make.

 

[autoexebat]

Oh please forgive my antiquated solution.
I just come from the old school where you had to at least be able draw a stick figure and hand cut a letter o.

I am curious why you insist on blaming the machine for the problem when you don't know how to check the box for the number of passes to make.

I DO know how to check the box I don't recall saying I don't know how to check the box. I don't think I would do 2 passes at 260 , so I was curious if I was supposed to do 2 at 130 , or what stepts to take when doing 2 passes.