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Screw you 3M.

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Gino

Premium Subscriber
Your being a Merchant Member could easily take this to the back section [PREMIUM] where it's not free and only people paying into the machine here can view.

I for one, would like to see it in writing and make sure everyone is getting the same story. Nothing I like more than transparency and we all know where that comes from...... huh ??

I'm sure all involved are above board, but I'd hate to see or read what someone thought you were saying with what someone else is saying just because of a few words getting turned around. You know how things get lost in the translation and you as well as anyone else knows, it will happen.

I invite you to start a thread about your two concerns and how it is to be handled. I'm confident you can find the words or someone in your Communications Department can write it out for you to post here, but please, don't take this behind closed doors....as that looks quite cheap and unprofessional.
 

401Graphics

New Member
Your being a Merchant Member could easily take this to the back section [PREMIUM] where it's not free and only people paying into the machine here can view.

I for one, would like to see it in writing and make sure everyone is getting the same story. Nothing I like more than transparency and we all know where that comes from...... huh ??

I'm sure all involved are above board, but I'd hate to see or read what someone thought you were saying with what someone else is saying just because of a few words getting turned around. You know how things get lost in the translation and you as well as anyone else knows, it will happen.

I invite you to start a thread about your two concerns and how it is to be handled. I'm confident you can find the words or someone in your Communications Department can write it out for you to post here, but please, don't take this behind closed doors....as that looks quite cheap and unprofessional.
+1
 

3M Graphics

Merchant Member
Your being a Merchant Member could easily take this to the back section [PREMIUM] where it's not free and only people paying into the machine here can view.

That's a good point, Gino but please keep in mind that some of our competitors are also Merchant Members here.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
That's a good point, Gino but please keep in mind that some of our competitors are also Merchant Members here.

Are you frickin' serious ??
That's the whole point of this entire outrage....... :banghead:
You've become the competition to each and everyone one of us in part or in whole. You are viewed as the enemy and one with no conscience.

We're all competition, but we are a united industry. That's a pretty lame excuse about having competition. You wanna make a comment or just go into hiding behind calculated remarks ??

I personally, have given more information about more things with competition being in my back yard right here on this site without much concern compared to you coming clean. I have products which I am quite confident of and although I don't give out my customer's names...... I still can participate.

You however, regardless of your advertising here, have taken every avenue to remain vague and give statements which only fire members up. Why not fess up and do this out in the open ?? There is no way your 'Thinking People' in your company can't come up with a short essay without giving away the farm.

I would... and could never trust a person or a company if they took your stand. You are about the biggest guy on the scene and you cop a plea like..... we have competition who can go in the back ?? Give me a break. Like, who didn't already know that ??

Here, I thought you were afraid of end-users getting this information. You were the one making mention of a free forum. It's not free back there. Are you afraid some other big guy is gonna steal your ideas ?? C'mon, aren't you a little above that ?? What's the next obstacle gonna be ??

Either start a thread or just do nothing and take whatever comes your way.

I offered an invitation for a rather good way for you to deal with this and I guess you are turning it down..... huh ?? Too bad.
After all these years, I thought 3M was well above the level you're displaying . Guess I was wrong. :covereyes:
 

3M Graphics

Merchant Member
Sorry you feel that way. We have in fact given an overview "that doesn't give away the farm" but that is not satisfying the questions and comments that continue to be raised on this forum. Hence our offer to have a direct conversation with anyone interested in the details. Equally important, these details impact the OEMs, the dealerships and the end users, and goes beyond just what 3M does or does not want to share.

To those of you who have already contacted me, thanks for your initiative. And to others, my offer stands: if you are interested in the details of the program or have a specific situation you want to discuss, PM me with your contact info. I'll log in once a day to pick up any messages in my inbox.

Bill
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Sorry you feel that way. We have in fact given an overview "that doesn't give away the farm" but that is not satisfying the questions and comments that continue to be raised on this forum. Hence our offer to have a direct conversation with anyone interested in the details. Equally important, these details impact the OEMs, the dealerships and the end users, and goes beyond just what 3M does or does not want to share.

To those of you who have already contacted me, thanks for your initiative. And to others, my offer stands: if you are interested in the details of the program or have a specific situation you want to discuss, PM me with your contact info. I'll log in once a day to pick up any messages in my inbox.

Bill


Bill.......

Thank you so very much for taking the time out of your highly busy schedule to look in on us today. You've certainly got your way of doing things. Not to mention your way of avoiding the real facts. Clouding the waters with trivial baloney is a small man's way out. If not a small man's way, then your company and all of it's representatives must be feeble-minded.

You expect anyone to believe they're all gonna get the same story and all the same facts, when that's what this whole thread has been about.... your sly and cunningly artful way of marketing ??

I stayed on the fence in the beginning of this whole journey, knowing full well, you guys would come out on top when you reported all the facts. You've proved me 100% wrong. You've done nothing but create a cover-up and now you're blowing smoke up our a**es. In fact, in this diversion, you haven't cleared a single problem up or explained them. All I see now is a bunch of poppycock coming out of your mouth and smoke n' mirrors.

Ya know as well as I do, your company has been around for a very long time. You've had to change course and redirect many of your ventures over the years to regroup and remain successful. Your products.... I've heard of in so many fashions, it ain't even funny. Now, I do business with you guys and have been proud to say I use a lota 3M products. But now, this p!ss poor excuse of explaining.... simply disgusts me.

Sure, sure, you're sorry to hear that, but do you know how many aren't voicing because they don't even know what you're really doing ?? It's one thing for those of us reading this forum to get upset with you, but how about all the 1,000's upon 1,000's of people out there getting screwed by you and not knowing it ?? Is that how you, Bill, and your company want to become known..... ?? If it is, that's pretty pathetic. Sure, let this go and maybe it will go away.... just like it took you 100's of posts to finally pop your head in and try your luck at some damage control. I guess you do know this doesn't have to stop here.... it can go much more public and with the right people behind the keyboard, just about anyone operating a computer.... which all wrap shops do.... might find out about this and then your damage control problems will really blossom.

I don't understand this need to stay illusory of it all ??

What is so important, you can't tell your customers all at once ??

You have stat sheets out on every item you sell, but here is something which appears to be somewhat not above board and you can't give us a solid answer, other than call ya and you'll tell us one at a time what's happening. Yeah, that make sense, Bill. You only have time to stick your head in here once a day, but you're willing to spend hours and hours e-mailing people and talking to them on the phone, one at a time. You evidently have a tough time delegating or you're just terrible managing your time and getting your priorities figured out.


Well Bill, I too am sorry too that you feel you must treat us the way you are. I now must go and I'll drop back in if Sandy doesn't get too bad.
Til then........ :thankyou:
Gino
 

splizaat

New Member
Here's an idea...if 3m doesn't want to tell you all at once, one person call, ask all the questions and then post your mp3 recorded conversation on the internet for us all to hear so we all have the same information. If 3M doesn't want to volunteer the information, maybe you should post it up on your own without them getting the chance.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, if 3M doesn't want to support their customers, why do you keep trying to do business with them? The only thing you're proving to 3M by beating this dead, senseless, retarded horse is that you NEED them, which they already know - which is why Original Wraps will remain, and they will continue to not give a sh!t while having a robot respond to your posts on here under the name "3M Graphics."

If you want to make waves, stop purchasing their film as a GROUP. Everyone here enter a pact and promise not to buy anymore...put something in your signature once you do, and when everyone on this forum has something in their signature saying they no longer carry 3M everytime they post - 3M maybe eventually see the impact, fire Billdo, and will be forced to see the sales numbers and do something about it.
 

TXFB.INS

New Member
:goodpost:

already stopped using 3M on all jobs, even the jobs that have 3M specs. have been able to switch over to ORACAL and the customers are grateful as they are seeing better images / products and usually at a price that beats 3M
 

Cale Frederick

New Member
Our company managed to drop ALL 3M product about 3days after this thread started. On top of that all 20 of the people who work with me have stopped or limited their personal use of anything made by 3M. Whe do a few trade show displays a year for one local government operation and they were originally glad we used 3M, but on our most recent project we informed them that we no longer use them. Not a big deal to them but they did ask why... I briefly described the situation we are in and they got very interested. Turns out one of the guys was responsible for the safety eguipment and he said they go through about 1500 sets of 3M ear plugs a day. Now he is considering changing just due to our industries issues! He mentioned some number of safety glasses also but they are specked into a contract. Then he said he gets to rewrite that contract every few years.
So who knows what kind of impact we can have on those around us? But we all need to keep trying to get the word out!
 

CheapVehicleWrap

New Member
That's a good point, Gino but please keep in mind that some of our competitors are also Merchant Members here.

Bill, could you kindly re-allow my posting on 3m commercial graphics facebook page? It simply won't look good for 3m if I have to start creating hundred of onlther accounts.

Also, looking for someone who can safely email nearly 10k sign professionals with our views.
 

Allied Digital

New Member
That's a good point, Gino but please keep in mind that some of our competitors are also Merchant Members here.

Bill, could you kindly re-allow my posting on 3m commercial graphics facebook page? It simply won't look good for 3m if I have to start creating hundred of onlther accounts.

Also, looking for someone who can safely email nearly 10k sign professionals with our views.

Glad to see this thread again... I have been following and though it doesn't concern my business (I'll stick to what I do best for now) 15 years ago I used a 3M vinyl product -on a sign for a hotel chain which had it required in the specs. causing added time, money, headache with red tape and ultimately my profit to go down. (so, I guess they have been doing this a long time now. I know that like many overpriced commodities, that you are paying for R & D, which is good, but also, high salaries to folks that are not earning it. I have always steered clear.

Bubble Boy- my thoughts exactly and Im sure what Bill was hoping, crossing his fingers all along, that no one would think about or voice this option. He knows the power of the internet.
Damage control came a little late. It is obvious this should have been tackled with a phone call to Colarado from the get go.

Signed:
No3Mhere
 

CheapVehicleWrap

New Member
Glad to see this thread again... I have been following and though it doesn't concern my business (I'll stick to what I do best for now) 15 years ago I used a 3M vinyl product -on a sign for a hotel chain which had it required in the specs. causing added time, money, headache with red tape and ultimately my profit to go down. (so, I guess they have been doing this a long time now. I know that like many overpriced commodities, that you are paying for R & D, which is good, but also, high salaries to folks that are not earning it. I have always steered clear.

Bubble Boy- my thoughts exactly and Im sure what Bill was hoping, crossing his fingers all along, that no one would think about or voice this option. He knows the power of the internet.
Damage control came a little late. It is obvious this should have been tackled with a phone call to Colarado from the get go.

Signed:
No3Mhere

@No3Mhere, may I call you SignLady?, please; call me El'Cheapo. 3M has the patent on this "red tape" you speak of. You see; Bill doesn't really care. He's (if he's smart) updating his resume. Just search facebook for 3m commercial graphics and you'll see the countless individuals who "worked" at "3m commercial graphics".
 

Allied Digital

New Member
El'Cheapo. yes- SignLady. This whole string has been enlightening to say the least. This is just wrong. I have just tried to change my profile signature to: SignLady, No3M

Heres to the power of the internet!
 
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