Signs 101 Business Model

[Fred Weiss]

good article, and it even has relevance to the topic.

question for you fred, any statistics on this forum as to user involvement over the years, or are we not on speaking terms anymore?

We haven't been on cordial speaking terms since shortly after your arrival. But yes, there are statistics. Why do you ask?

 

[THATgirl]

thanks for the answer Fred. However in my opinion, when one chooses to become a moderator, it would be best to be neutral as far as having favorite personalities. I realize it is your forum, and you do a great job and have helped a tremendous amount of people with this site. But you are taking darlaks personality (because it gets on your nerves) and wanting to erase him from this board. Again, it is your board and you can do what you want with it obviously.

But, we all know there have been other forums that were once upon a time very popular. It got to the point where if you didn't pay to join, you were treated very differently from the paying residents (especially by the moderator). As soon as you paid you were his best friend. I know this because I paid for years. This happened to lots of people and we all know what happened to that forum. There are about 5 regular posters. yawn. big bore.

I think if you want to have a board where there are no newbies, no troublemakers etc. you should charge! just so it makes it not so much of a chore for you and maybe becomes less of a hassle. But, the only difference will be a lot of helpful ones may leave, and you will be left with the same people repeating themselves.

Sure it is nice to have a community that all gets along. But it also makes for a very boring forum.

 

[DARLAK]

We haven't been on cordial speaking terms since shortly after your arrival. But yes, there are statistics. Why do you ask?

really? i got under your skin from the start....

anyway, after reading the article i was interested in the user participation over the years, is it going up or down. is the average users online up or down. i have no motives here other than seeing where this 'community' sits according to the predicted community collapse forcasted in the article...

 

[BlueRidgeFabrication]

I predict that this forum will be around for a very long time. As long as Fred wants to moderate it, and it doesn't change too much! Whether we all get along or not--this is a great forum and I will be here as long as the forum is here!

 

[ShawnLVESP]

I didn't post my vote because the option i'd choose isn't listed.

When i first found this site I signed up got my reply email and then i got on and started checking it out. Lots of good stuff here. If i would of had to pay to be here in the begining i wouldn't stay. But, After being here for a length of time and seeing what goes on i would have no problem paying a membership fee of a few bucks to stay.

What i mean is new people coming here probably won't pay but they could or would in time. They don't know what they are getting into and they dont want to waste money.

I would keep this forum maybe with some changes. I would add a subscription section that could serve as a more secure forum to discuss secrets of the sign business and exchange files or something.

I do see a problem with free forums and subscription forums both in the same place. How do you limit jerks to the subscription. If someone pays does that automaticly grant them access. Proof that your a sign shop/ in the business would be great, but how to do it is the question.


to get rid of annoying/problematic posters can be done from the Admin Section by highlighting the name darlak and pressing the "remove" button.

I didn't read every page of this thread because i got tired of seeing the same person in everyother comment. So, i read a few postes and jumped to the back read a few more and posted my thoughts.

Fred, if you would like more detail explaination of my thoughts i can call you to discuss. I hate typing and sometimes dont get my point acrross right away.

Thanks for a great forum,
shawn

 

[Fred Weiss]

good grief. sorry fred, i think that you need to listen to all the people on here that talk about charging what your worth. i thought that would be monthly. when i read yearly, i almost shit.. for your traffic to charge those prices is rediculous. no wonder there are so many "merchant members" that sell worthless stuff on here. for $350/year to get this kind of exposure, they are laughing.

do yourself a favor, charge those prices MONTHLY, make some money, and enjoy what you do. if i was a merchant i would be a FOOL not to pay that price monthly. unless i was selling stupid flame vector creations for $79.95.

I'm sure you mean well but that's just pure BS. If you or I could get those kinds of prices you wouldn't be here and I would have a paid staff instead of spending 50 to 60 hours a week here.

If you were aware of what has transpired over the last five years here and the approaches that have been taken and why, you would never presume to make such a statement. This place is popular because it kind of wild and woolly with just enough help forthcoming that it delivers a benefit to members. It isn't structured to protect and promote advertisers. Any member here can bring a comment or a complaint about any supplier and it pretty much is left to stand. As such, it is very member oriented and hold a minimal appeal to the kinds of advertisers that that pay SignWeb rates. Simply put, it doesn't deliver the same kinds of returns to advertisers as magazine style sites that also have forums.

It is a forum - plain and simple that exists as a meeting place and an archive. If there was a logical evolution for Signs 101, it would be towards a trade association.

It is for this reason that I occasionally put forth the notion that this site would be better off if it was funded by its members and not by suppliers.

 

[ProWraps™]

I'm sure you mean well but that's just pure BS. If you or I could get those kinds of prices you wouldn't be here and I would have a paid staff instead of spending 50 to 60 hours a week here.

If you were aware of what has transpired over the last five years here and the approaches that have been taken and why, you would never presume to make such a statement. This place is popular because it kind of wild and woolly with just enough help forthcoming that it delivers a benefit to members. It isn't structured to protect and promote advertisers. Any member here can bring a comment or a complaint about any supplier and it pretty much is left to stand. As such, it is very member oriented and hold a minimal appeal to the kinds of advertisers that that pay SignWeb rates. Simply put, it doesn't deliver the same kinds of returns to advertisers as magazine style sites that also have forums.

It is a forum - plain and simple that exists as a meeting place and an archive. If there was a logical evolution for Signs 101, it would be towards a trade association.

It is for this reason that I occasionally put forth the notion that this site would be better off if it was funded by its members and not by suppliers.

fred you seem like a great guy, but a couple of things. its not pure BS. i charge $200/month. and i get it. i give them access to a sponsor forum, a banner in rotation, and a logo static on every page. so, sorry, but you are wrong.

other thing.. i havent been here for 5 years, and frankly, i dont see what that has to do with anything. it surely has nothing to do with an advertising model. if you have traffic x, you charge price y. you seem to have traffic x, but you are charging not much. you can make MORE than you are, if you would put up a google adwords banner. i know, i have one in ROTATION, and i still make enough to host the server.

i dont know what is your point as far as this thread, but to me it seemed like you wanted a viable business that make your time worth your effort. well, only you can see the value in your time and effort and either take steps to get there or dont. a poll and post that takes our opinions/rants/stupidity into consideration wont help you much. either charge what your forum is worth, or dont. the outcome is up to you.

but please dont say your forum isnt worth it. becuase im proof that it is. its just up to you to capitalize on it. if the MM's dont like it, screw em. just because they have been getting a free ride for 5 years or however long you have been up, doesnt mean it has to last forever.

if this post is about limiting access to non members, well i already suggested how to do that in a previous post with limitations to search, pms, and other features for non supporting members. all of this has been implemented on my forum that has been up and running for over 10 years. and it works. at least as well as it can. but hey what the hell do i know.

if this is a meeting place and an archive as you so put it, then why do you have MM's? if you cant see this as an online community that gives lasting advertising impressions, then what is the point? and even more pressing, what is the business model? or is it a business or a hobby for archiving conversations?

 

[Fred Weiss]

thanks for the answer Fred. However in my opinion, when one chooses to become a moderator, it would be best to be neutral as far as having favorite personalities. I realize it is your forum, and you do a great job and have helped a tremendous amount of people with this site. But you are taking darlaks personality (because it gets on your nerves) and wanting to erase him from this board. Again, it is your board and you can do what you want with it obviously.

But, we all know there have been other forums that were once upon a time very popular. It got to the point where if you didn't pay to join, you were treated very differently from the paying residents (especially by the moderator). As soon as you paid you were his best friend. I know this because I paid for years. This happened to lots of people and we all know what happened to that forum. There are about 5 regular posters. yawn. big bore.

I think if you want to have a board where there are no newbies, no troublemakers etc. you should charge! just so it makes it not so much of a chore for you and maybe becomes less of a hassle. But, the only difference will be a lot of helpful ones may leave, and you will be left with the same people repeating themselves.

Sure it is nice to have a community that all gets along. But it also makes for a very boring forum.

Cheryl I luv ya darlin' but you just can't use Letterville as a classic "this is what will happen" model for everything. Their approach is clearly aimed at forming relationships (cliques) through having meets. And their forum structure is much more designed for conversations then for building archival information helpful for years to come.

I understand the load taken on in electing to moderate a forum. I'm okay with that. But you're welcome to review my posts and point out to me where I play favorites. In my recollection, I don't think I have ever singled someone out as I have with Darlak. And, as I stated, he is only still here because some established members here seem to enjoy his antics. I personally do not and am now giving voice to that ... as is my right, not as a moderator but as a member.

I am suffering a fool when it comes to Darlak because you and others find some saving grace in him. I do not.

 

[DARLAK]

I am suffering a fool when it comes to Darlak because you and others find some saving grace in him. I do not.

and i'm told to stop with the drama....

 

[Fred Weiss]

really? i got under your skin from the start....

anyway, after reading the article i was interested in the user participation over the years, is it going up or down. is the average users online up or down. i have no motives here other than seeing where this 'community' sits according to the predicted community collapse forcasted in the article...

The article has much more to do with masses of members than one dedicated to serving a specific, specialized group, so I do not find it particularly on the mark as it might apply to Signs 101.

The rest I choose not to provide to you. Your motives are suspect and you have designated yourself as a competitor by purchasing the domain name of Signs201.com.

 

[THATgirl]

I love ya too Fred. Do it your way and I hope it works out for the best. You are smart, so I am sure it will.

OK darlak, get busy and post some helpful advice! sheesh already.

I have people that get on my nerves too Fred, but they are liked by some. Hey speaking of.......where is bob from earth??? buy a clue from him Fred. He knows everything.

 

[skyhigh]

i was a merchant i would be a FOOL not to pay that price monthly. unless i was selling stupid flame vector creations for $79.95.

Just who in F___ are you? Totally un-called for there sport.

Maybe you should buy the flame package and redo that truck wrap of yours. It would look a hell of a lot better.

 

[ProWraps™]

And, as I stated, he is only still here because some established members here seem to enjoy his antics.

is that the reason some established members are also allowed to treat others like shit, and slam newbies like they change underwear? sorry, but i had to ask.

But you're welcome to review my posts and point out to me where I play favorites

anyone else see the irony? mass favoritism, is still favoritism. you want some great advice from a forum that has over 5 million posts? get rid of peoples post counts. best thing that ever happened. its amazing how much a level playing field will get more people involved in your "archive" without having to deal with the "established members" that feel like they run the joint. dont get me wrong, i truely respect your hands off approach to letting people have free speech but at what cost? one hand is trying to make this thing work well, the other is letting the nut jobs run the asylum.

 

[DARLAK]

OK darlak, get busy and post some helpful advice! sheesh already.

i have helped some people here, but as stated by fred, this place is popular because of its wild and woolly side with just enough help....

This place is popular because it kind of wild and woolly with just enough help forthcoming that it delivers a benefit to members.

 

[Fred Weiss]

fred you seem like a great guy, but a couple of things. its not pure BS. i charge $200/month. and i get it. i give them access to a sponsor forum, a banner in rotation, and a logo static on every page. so, sorry, but you are wrong.

other thing.. i havent been here for 5 years, and frankly, i dont see what that has to do with anything. it surely has nothing to do with an advertising model. if you have traffic x, you charge price y. you seem to have traffic x, but you are charging not much. you can make MORE than you are, if you would put up a google adwords banner. i know, i have one in ROTATION, and i still make enough to host the server.

i dont know what is your point as far as this thread, but to me it seemed like you wanted a viable business that make your time worth your effort. well, only you can see the value in your time and effort and either take steps to get there or dont. a poll and post that takes our opinions/rants/stupidity into consideration wont help you much. either charge what your forum is worth, or dont. the outcome is up to you.

but please dont say your forum isnt worth it. becuase im proof that it is. its just up to you to capitalize on it. if the MM's dont like it, screw em. just because they have been getting a free ride for 5 years or however long you have been up, doesnt mean it has to last forever.

if this post is about limiting access to non members, well i already suggested how to do that in a previous post with limitations to search, pms, and other features for non supporting members. all of this has been implemented on my forum that has been up and running for over 10 years. and it works. at least as well as it can. but hey what the hell do i know.

if this is a meeting place and an archive as you so put it, then why do you have MM's? if you cant see this as an online community that gives lasting advertising impressions, then what is the point? and even more pressing, what is the business model? or is it a business or a hobby for archiving conversations?

Your points are duly noted and some should prove helpful. Thank you.

 

[ProWraps™]

Just who in F___ are you? Totally un-called for there sport.

Maybe you should buy the flame package and redo that truck wrap of yours. It would look a hell of a lot better.

yes, that will do the trick maybe if the guy wasnt such a DICK to me and others when we were newbs, he would get more respect as a merchant member. kinda hard to be a jerk, then hawk your wears in the same building. and whothe F________ are you? turbo.

 

[skyhigh]

whoa is me....he was mean to us noobs....Grow up and get over it.

Turbo? Is that good or bad? :Big Laugh

 

[ProWraps™]

whoa is me....he was mean to us noobs....Grow up and get over it.

Turbo? Is that good or bad? :Big Laugh

im sure he has enough noses up his brown eye.

 

[TheSnowman]

..

 

[Ken]

About my above post...Contributing member or not?..

That list of names just happened to be the list of names that were logged on to the site at that particular time of day. If it offended anyone (more likely embarrassed) well..so be it. That short list was as random as it gets.
It is apparant that our moderator would appreciate more dollars to keep the site running.
So..to repeat...becoming a Contributing Member will show "true support" of the member to this site..that they in fact not only appreciate this forum, and contribute with meaningful advice/info, or just useless spiteful crap for the sake of entertainment..... but are also willing to assist with a few bucks...or 14 cents a day.
That's all that was about . I understand that I ruffled some feathers from some of the veterans here. Keep your 14 cents. Thanks for the .02 that you give so willingly.
Cheers!
Ken