Discussion So, how many are gonna...............................

[TimToad]

taking a knee is a respectful way to protest and shed light on a national issue. we have a national problem we need to solve and I see the kneeling as a peaceful and respectful way to bring it to into the light. I also understand the symbol the flag represents to Americans. it has been our symbol of rally as a people. after 9/11 there were few places you could go without seeing our flag. people have given their lives to protect and preserve what it stands for. the flag and anthem isn't degraded by taking a knee, it is stronger as taking a knee, saying we have a problem, protesting injustice is about as American as it can get. cutting a hole in the middle of the flag and wearing it like a poncho like kid Rock did at a concert is a sign of disrepect yet he was invited to the White House. not sure why that is OK but peaceful protest is not

After 9/11 the jingoistic fervor that was whipped up by those wanting to use the tragedy as a way to engage in an expensive war bent on dividing the world by religion was so strong that few people noticed that over 5,000 FAKE charities were set up by unscrupulous Americans preying on the fragile psyche of Americans.

I didn't see tons of protest by all the flag wavers about our national symbol being desecrated by con artists them nor in the millions of examples of it being plastered inappropriately on commercial items for sale, including underwear.

 

[TimToad]

If you are not going to pick up a rifle and stand a post, have enough fortitude to stop for a minute and show some respect to those that have!

For every military action this country has engaged in for the right reasons, we've engaged in a hundred for undemocratic reasons in order to influence elections, protect corporate interests abroad, put down revolutionary uprisings, etc.

Viewing our country ONLY through a militaristic, aggression based prism is an insult to the actions and results of diplomacy and compromise.

 

[TimToad]

This picture attached is why I get upset by the lack of respect being shown by the NFL player who choose to sit, kneel, or yes, even exercise during the Anthem. The picture is of my 18 year old son. He chose to serve his country and I am exceedingly proud of him for doing so. He is Active Duty in the US Army and is possibly planning going career with it. My wife belongs to several Moms of Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, and Sailors groups on FB. She shares with me the struggles that many go through and it is especially heartbreaking seeing a flag draped coffin being escorted home to their loved ones. My Dad served in the Army and when he passed away (more tan 35 years after his service), his coffin was draped in a US Flag and it was amazing to hear the words of the Funeral Director when he presented the folded flag to my family "On behalf of the President of the United States and The US Army, please accept this Flag in honor of your Father's service to his country." How many people have heard those words when their loved one was killed on foreign soil? To disrespect the flag is to dishonor their sacrifice. No matter how you spin it.

Last season, when Kaepernick decided to start this "protest" I was put off at first. Kaepernick certainly did not do himself any favors by wearing the police as pigs socks either. The next week when 4 players from my favorite team, The Dolphins, decided to join his protest, I turned off the TV for the rest of the season. I did not even watch the Super Bowl. When this season started, I thought, OK new season, maybe there will be new behavior from the players. Instead of choosing to respect the Flag and the fans, they kicked it up a notch. Sorry guys, I am out. Once again, no NFL for me this season.

As far as the reason for the protest, I understand the perception that police are killing black people at a high rate is a big issue. However, the facts show that twice as many whites are killed by police every year. Are there some bad cops? Sure, of course there are. Just like every profession, there are good people and bad people everywhere.

I cannot for the life of me understand why the inner city crime rate is not addressed at all by the same people especially the BLM crowd? According to 2014 FBI data, 90% of African-American homicides were committed by African Americans. So the cry of racism at every turn rings kind of hollow to me.

BTW - I really HATE the use of the terms "hyphenated American." No matter what background you come from, I think dividing you up into subsets of Americans does a great disservice to all. My son serves alongside of people from every ethnicity imaginable. They all bleed the same color for the same Flag. They are all Americans. Identity politics and victimization are not what MLK had in mind when he "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

The only people "spinning" the issue are those unable to break from the indoctrination or racism they and their loved ones have been subjected for their entire lives. To insult the intelligence and commitment to our freedom of the millions of veterans who actually "get it" on what their service represents is an act of hubris greater than the protests themselves.

To use racist dog whistles and faulty rationales to deflect from the real issue is the work the same kind of scoundrel that one of our founding fathers warned us against hundreds of years ago.

Police may shoot more whites than blacks, but proportionally that is not true by a long shot and only a racist would use it as a justification to blather on about black crime rates and the myth of black ghettos being the only places that violent crime occurs. Albuquerque, NM is one of the most dangerous cities in America and has almost no african-americans living there. Appalachia is full white, poor people and parts of it are have very high crime rates. Deeply entrenched poverty is the primary indicator of crime rates. Long running, systematic discrimination by race creates poverty. End of story.

 

[mackenzieGRAPHICS]

Can you give an example of "widespread and systematic racial profiling", and cite proof of such?

Don't be so ignorant. We should all be very much aware of what's happening in the news and every day around us. It's naive to think systemic racial profiling doesn't exist. Just because it doesn't affect your comfy life, doesn't mean it's not affecting hundreds of thousands of other American citizens.

What is Systemic Racism? [VIDEO]

 

[mackenzieGRAPHICS]

You mean the very left leaning news, that only reports on what fits their narrative?

If the left only reported what "fits their narrative," then there wouldn't be discussions about this silent protest defining it as anything other than what it is.. and judging by this thread, that's definitely not the case considering how many of the commenters have zero knowledge on it and still assume it has anything to do with the flag, our military, or our national anthem.

 

[TimToad]

I would venture to say that a large majority of people that follow and actively watch the NFL are:

1. patriotic
2. believe in standing for the national anthem.

When this group above watches the players kneel, well --- its unpleasant, and seen as against the country. My opinion is that the players don't realize they have offended a large portion of their audience. Thus ---less to watch-- less to buy tickets--. Its very simple to understand. This will (already started) hurt the NFL. Can anyone tell me how these actions will increase viewership, increase ticket sales?
Players have their own reasons for protest, but its TIMIMG is viewed as a protest against the country.

When would be the right or convenient time for folks concerned with abuse of the public trust by police who engage in systematic racial profiling and a disproportionate level of brutality cases against minorities to protest?

White folk don't want any issues that reveal our deep seated racial animus or systemic discrimination to ever be confronted or examined because it makes us look like the failures as citizens we are in this regard.

It galls me to see supporters of the military, one of the most racially integrated and diverse entities in our nation ignore that a portion of our country is STILL not being treated equally by law enforcement, employers, financial institutions, housing, etc. based on race.

There has been no significant drop in attendance and as evidenced by what happened in Indianapolis yesterday, NOBODY in the stands got up and left when the vice opportunist in chief pulled his pre-planned stunt.

 

[TimToad]

What would be interesting is to know everyones age on who cares / doesn't care. I have a feeling it's mostly a generational thing too. I'm not saying younger people arent getting pissed off either... but so far I've seen mostly the older generation which have had some sort of experience with the war / wars are the ones who are mostly vocal about it.

My wife is American... she loves the flag. Everytime we goto America she buys another one. She wont let our kids play with the flags you wave around because he always puts it down on the floor. She'll never let it get dirty, etc... She's very patriotic. But she doesn't care one bit about this.

So.. another perspective is not everyone has been through what you guys have. What you may feel is unpatriotic, others may not see the same way... Different life experiences make people feel differently.

I dont know about you guys...but I haven't had to go through life being Black. Most of the black people living in America probably has some close ancestors who were slaves, or treated unfairly just because of their skin color. When your grandma or great grandma was a slave, and you feel like your race is still being treated unfairly and persecuted, would you not protest against your country men also? Point is... we dont know how these people are feeling. If I / you were in their shoes, you may feel the same way.

It has become quite fashionable and acceptable in the U.S. to reject having empathy for others, critical thinking, challenge authority, walk a mile in the shoes of someone less fortunate, be willing to compromise, be diplomatic, challenge stereotypes, etc.. Those qualities are now viewed as a sign of weakness.

 

[TimToad]

Here is a post I made on a social media site last week, that expresses how I see it.

A little something I have learned through life, that a lot of people need to hear. I may not be friends with most of them, but if this is shared, it might get to them, eventually.
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There is a thing called "Perception" that can determine success in almost every aspect of life.
It's all about how people perceive you. You may say "I don't care what people think about me!", But you DO more so than you think!
Let me break it down for you:
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If people perceive you as a lazy person, you will more than likely be turned down for the job you want.
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If people perceive you as a belligerent drunk, More than likely people will not want to drink with you.
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If people perceive you as a lousy driver, more than likely they will not let you drive their car, or ride with you in yours.
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If people perceive you as a bad mechanic, more than likely they will not let you work on their car.
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If people perceive you as disrespecting our nations flag, our nations soldiers, our nations president, and or our nation.....More than likely they are not going to take you seriously when you say you are doing it to peacefully protest an injustice.
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If people perceive you as a bunch of thugs that want to burn city's, block traffic, and just plain wreak havoc, more than likely they are not going to take you seriously when you say you are doing it to protest an injustice.
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You don't go picketing at AutoZone, to protest the high prices at NAPA. You would be perceived as an idiot, and no one would take you seriously.
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Thanks for reading.
I hope someone has learned something.
Pass it on
Your friend, Bubba Jones.

That is just a bunch of racist, overly judgmental bleetings coming from someone who thinks he's superior to others, but in reality has no right to project feeling superior over anyone because he is a flawed human just like the rest of us. Consider yourself lucky that the issues at stake don't make you live in fear or have to school your kids on how they are viewed by the ignorant, bigots in the most racially diverse country and experiment in democracy on earth.

 

[mackenzieGRAPHICS]

Okay, that's a huge laugh right there, Bubba - but I'll breeze over the fact that you're blatantly ignoring the majority of the comments specifically stating that this silent protest is "disrespecting the flag," when it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FLAG. So in your words, if those choosing to take a knee aren't protesting our flag, our military, or our national anthem, why is it that so many believe their choice of venue is an inappropriate time to bring light to the racial oppression and injustices? The majority of the players in the NFL are black. Seems to me like they chose the perfect arena to voice their concerns - especially considering how many white people it's gotten riled up.

 

[Gene@mpls]

Is anyone else offended that the VP spent a quarter-million on the flight to stage his own protest?

 

[billsines]

 

[Gino]

Is anyone else offended that the VP spent a quarter-million on the flight to stage his own protest?

That's garbage and worthless bullsh!t. Look at all the last guy spent on nonsense and none of you complained.

It really doesn't matter who is on their high horse or not. The only question here was..... was this an appropriate time to kneel or do whatever they want to get their point across ??

For those doing it..... it was probably the best time ever.
For those who find it wrong. It can't get much more wrong that that.

What they are protesting still needs to be cleared, but in this manner, I think it's just bad sh!t.

So, we've come to an agreement. All of those in favor of this stoopid stunt..... have no problem kneeling during the National Anthem or desecrating just about anything else patriotic or held close to most red-blooded Americans.

Someday, you may feel different and that day may be approaching much faster than you realize. ​

 

[mackenzieGRAPHICS]

All of those in favor of this stoopid stunt..... have no problem kneeling during the National Anthem or desecrating just about anything else patriotic or held close to most red-blooded Americans.

But we all understand that this protest has nothing to do with the flag, the national anthem, or the military... Right, Bubba??

 

[TimToad]

Naw man, I aint the insulting type. How could I think my opinion matters, if I think yours don't.
I believe they are stirring crap over a false narrative, and statistics back that up.

Show us these statistics you claim dispel the reality of what other statistics seem to confirm. Some of us read enough to know when we see an empty sack of opinion versus actual research and statistics to back up your opinions.

Police have killed 931 people in the U.S. this year.

 

[TimToad]

I think most on this thread are privy to the fact that they aren't protesting our flag, our military, or our national anthem. Most of us simply think that it is the most inappropriate time for a protest. Especially one that is perceived so widely as frivolous.

Its not frivolous to those being victimized by corrupt, morally bankrupt, racist police. Just because you don't seem to care, doesn't mean nobody else should take such a cavalier attitude.

The problem is getting worse, not better. Both the FBI and Justice Dept. have been tracking a spike of self-identified white supremacists entering the ranks of law enforcement.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31...-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/
Ghost skin - Wikipedia

 

[Gino]

Show us these statistics you claim dispel the reality of what other statistics seem to confirm. Some of us read enough to know when we see an empty sack of opinion versus actual research and statistics to back up your opinions.

Police have killed 931 people in the U.S. this year.

You can take those graphs and shove 'em. I just looked some of them up, near where I live and the one is so far off from the truth it ain't even funny. The other one no one knows what happened and 2 others, they don't even know the race of the dead. It says unknown race. How frickin' accurate can these lame things be if 4 out of 5 are already wrong ??

Oh yeah, another one was a suicide, when the cops showed up. How does that fit in with being killed by a cop ??

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Is anyone else offended that the VP spent a quarter-million on the flight to stage his own protest?

Either you didn't read the entire article or your source didn't include other prudent information. He had that trip planned and was going to fly over Indiana anyway on his way back to DC The problem was Las Vegas happened and that added a whole bunch of miles and $$. Article said he had other business in Indiana and wasn't a quarter million just to pull that stunt.

 

[Johnny Best]

Hey Toad, some of us do read enough, you folks are not going to change anyone's mind talking about it.
Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage: analysis

 

[Gino]

This is just plain wrong, regardless who says it.

 

[TimToad]

Okay, that's a huge laugh right there, Bubba - but I'll breeze over the fact that you're blatantly ignoring the majority of the comments specifically stating that this silent protest is "disrespecting the flag," when it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FLAG. So in your words, if those choosing to take a knee aren't protesting our flag, our military, or our national anthem, why is it that so many believe their choice of venue is an inappropriate time to bring light to the racial oppression and injustices? The majority of the players in the NFL are black. Seems to me like they chose the perfect arena to voice their concerns - especially considering how many white people it's gotten riled up.

There is a reason that the term "snowflake" has come into vogue in America. White people who both enjoy being the dominant population in charge of nearly every aspect of life here, have enjoyed a set of built in privileges and advantages that few will willingly admit to receiving, and have little connection to the struggles of an average minority SPEND AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF TIME WHINING, COMPLAINING AND BEING OFFENDED by the temerity and gall of minorities actually expecting to be treated like equals.