Vinyl cutter for automotive parts business

[Chuck Olson]

When you "ran the numbers" you were only taking into account equipment and material costs. You have completely left out TIME.

TIME is the major cost factor. You will find that you will be spending lots and lots of time (time that you could be spending at your regular business making money at your normal rate) doing something that on a bottom line basis yields you a far, far lower return on your time.

Your "Savings" of doing it yourself will actually yield a net loss for you.

 

[EnergyDesign]

With your new sticker making thingy...

I sure hope you are buying some fancy cliparts, and while you are at it...make sure you brush up on copyright laws since you plan on selling other peoples artwork. Also, you may want to learn a little bit about the mechanical aspects of a plotter, and the various upkeep. Theres nothing like working till three am, and cutting a crapload of vinyl, only to find out your knife is broken, and everything is screwed up. One last thing. In order to make it in this business, get yourself the Frank Fellers Handy DooDad special, a dickies shirt, a couple of cool belt pouches, some cool kneepads, some LED gloves, the sticky yard measuring system, and you must have the wrapdaddy, wrapulator, bad wrap software, rip daddy, and of course a 10 gallon hat...

 

[iSign]

When you "ran the numbers" you were only taking into account equipment and material costs. You have completely left out TIME.

TIME is the major cost factor. You will find that you will be spending lots and lots of time (time that you could be spending at your regular business making money at your normal rate) doing something that on a bottom line basis yields you a far, far lower return on your time.

Your "Savings" of doing it yourself will actually yield a net loss for you.

yes!! ...that, combined with another FACT, we veteran sign folk grumble about all the time... a near majority of signshops right now are charging TOO LITTLE!! ...so someone willing to cut into their own successfull professional life, because they think they can do better than paying a local signshop???

If you don't value your time... you may be righjt... but if you have a good job, then your time should be worth as much as the sign folks whoose prices you don't like... well, for the low cost of new equipment, software and training... now YOU can have their piss-poor wage for your efforst doing the work they would have done well... while you may do poorly.

 

[GARY CULY]

i think isign has summed it up pretty well.read his post again buddy and let it sink in

i will give you a non partisan view ..get a good machine. whatver it is ,it is the whole heartbeat ..cheapos dont track good ,they break down and just in general will make it less enjoyable ,,,somtimes daily ..so invest in a good machine at least.if these guys recomed a certain one ,it is good ,cause they use them daily ,probly a lot

 

[Special FX]

I'm probably going to be sorry I am asking these questions, but I am really puzzled here. And I am not intending attitude or sarcasm here, but rather serious questions. This (Signs101) is not a private club (or is it?) isn't it a question/answer/discussion forum which invites new members, or are we mistaken?

1. If the veteran sign folk here are so down on the new people, why don't you just ignore them and their questions instead of attempting to demoralize each one that pops in? Is it some sort of sport here?

2. If you are so accomplished and skilled, aren't you wasting your very valuable time and energy even reading the newbie/noob, etc posts? Couldn't you be making more $$$ working on a new sign?

3. Why, for example, if paintpro21 wants to cut some simple vinyl striping or "stickers" why do you care if he wants to cut them himself, when these tasks are so obviously disdained in your professional opinions?

4. If one does want to get into the vinyl business, where else would one go to learn this craft? There are no college courses, or classes at JVS, or lessons available in the internet that I know of. There might be a video on cutters, but I have seen very few of those. It's not exactly something that can be learned from a book alone, is it? How exactly would one do research on this business? By spending $20,000 on a new Graphtec? Isn't that about as dumb an idea as purchasing a Corvette (at least in my youth) in which to learn how to drive?

5. I live in a small town, there are no sign shops within a 30 mile radius, save 1. Two years ago I had a job for 24 corplast signs, I called him 4 times and he never returned my call. I finally found a new shop in another nearby town, they wanted $35 for a one color double sided corplast sign. (They were in business for 5 months-then closed up.) There are only a couple of people working out of their homes for me to consult with, one gal has 1 toddler and a 7 yr old to deal with and so can't tell you when the job will be done, and the other guy is so weird, he only wants to cut what he wants to cut and some days he doesn't want to cut 'yellow'.

 

[RedWolf]

I'm probably going to be sorry I am asking these questions, but I am really puzzled here. And I am not intending attitude or sarcasm here, but rather serious questions. This (Signs101) is not a private club (or is it?) isn't it a question/answer/discussion forum which invites new members, or are we mistaken?

1. If the veteran sign folk here are so down on the new people, why don't you just ignore them and their questions instead of attempting to demoralize each one that pops in? Is it some sort of sport here?

2. If you are so accomplished and skilled, aren't you wasting your very valuable time and energy even reading the newbie/noob, etc posts? Couldn't you be making more $$$ working on a new sign?

3. Why, for example, if paintpro21 wants to cut some simple vinyl striping or "stickers" why do you care if he wants to cut them himself, when these tasks are so obviously disdained in your professional opinions?

4. If one does want to get into the vinyl business, where else would one go to learn this craft? There are no college courses, or classes at JVS, or lessons available in the internet that I know of. There might be a video on cutters, but I have seen very few of those. It's not exactly something that can be learned from a book alone, is it? How exactly would one do research on this business? By spending $20,000 on a new Graphtec? Isn't that about as dumb an idea as purchasing a Corvette (at least in my youth) in which to learn how to drive?

5. I live in a small town, there are no sign shops within a 30 mile radius, save 1. Two years ago I had a job for 24 corplast signs, I called him 4 times and he never returned my call. I finally found a new shop in another nearby town, they wanted $35 for a one color double sided corplast sign. (They were in business for 5 months-then closed up.) There are only a couple of people working out of their homes for me to consult with, one gal has 1 toddler and a 7 yr old to deal with and so can't tell you when the job will be done, and the other guy is so weird, he only wants to cut what he wants to cut and some days he doesn't want to cut 'yellow'.

I totally agree and will probably get grief for doing so. Either way, you are not alone on what you said.


Matt

 

[OldPaint]

5. I live in a small town, there are no sign shops within a 30 mile radius, save 1. Two years ago I had a job for 24 corplast signs, I called him 4 times and he never returned my call. I finally found a new shop in another nearby town, they wanted $35 for a one color double sided corplast sign. (They were in business for 5 months-then closed up.) There are only a couple of people working out of their homes for me to consult with, one gal has 1 toddler and a 7 yr old to deal with and so can't tell you when the job will be done, and the other guy is so weird, he only wants to cut what he wants to cut and some days he doesn't want to cut 'yellow'.
ARE YOU NEAR STEBENVILLE, CANTON, MASILYN MC
KINLY???)))))))))))

 

[weaselboogie]

I'm probably going to be sorry I am asking these questions, but I am really puzzled here. And I am not intending attitude or sarcasm here, but rather serious questions. This (Signs101) is not a private club (or is it?) isn't it a question/answer/discussion forum which invites new members, or are we mistaken?

1. If the veteran sign folk here are so down on the new people, why don't you just ignore them and their questions instead of attempting to demoralize each one that pops in? Is it some sort of sport here?

2. If you are so accomplished and skilled, aren't you wasting your very valuable time and energy even reading the newbie/noob, etc posts? Couldn't you be making more $$$ working on a new sign?

3. Why, for example, if paintpro21 wants to cut some simple vinyl striping or "stickers" why do you care if he wants to cut them himself, when these tasks are so obviously disdained in your professional opinions?

4. If one does want to get into the vinyl business, where else would one go to learn this craft? There are no college courses, or classes at JVS, or lessons available in the internet that I know of. There might be a video on cutters, but I have seen very few of those. It's not exactly something that can be learned from a book alone, is it? How exactly would one do research on this business? By spending $20,000 on a new Graphtec? Isn't that about as dumb an idea as purchasing a Corvette (at least in my youth) in which to learn how to drive?

5. I live in a small town, there are no sign shops within a 30 mile radius, save 1. Two years ago I had a job for 24 corplast signs, I called him 4 times and he never returned my call. I finally found a new shop in another nearby town, they wanted $35 for a one color double sided corplast sign. (They were in business for 5 months-then closed up.) There are only a couple of people working out of their homes for me to consult with, one gal has 1 toddler and a 7 yr old to deal with and so can't tell you when the job will be done, and the other guy is so weird, he only wants to cut what he wants to cut and some days he doesn't want to cut 'yellow'.

Veterans don't look down on all the new people. Its just that LATELY it seems that all new members have no clue as to what they are doing and are looking for an easy handout. Contrary to popular belief, this forum is for help, but NOT for intruductory to sign making. Fred has stated before, Signs101 implies that this is not a forum geared at greenies. The 101 implies, like a college course, that you have already done your homework.

I can think of 2 new starters within the past two weeks that have really impressed me. They had done their homework, they were already somewhat in a graphics related field and, like an trademan apprentice, they listened and learned, had legitimate questions. Like you stated, why learn how to drive in a new corvette. I totally agree. Many people buy a cutter with out ever using a graphics program, obviously with no design experience. Jill Beans has suggested that every new cutter should come with the Mike Stevens design book. I'd be more impressed with someone who started out on a shoestring budget with graphics background and a passion for the field than with someone with 50K to blow on a new venture.

I think you may be a bit confused about the direction of the 'books' that can show you about this career. They are design books and can be found at your local library. As far as technique, this is a learned skill and signs101 is a great resource to Fine Tune your already aquired basic skills.

I started my career in high school in art class. That is where I learned the principles of design and my first signs were done with paint. Why newbies get so much flack is because they enter this field with a cavalier attitude. Most of the veterans have been career for 30-40 years and have been self taught or even better, learned under an apprentiship. If you're hoping to pick this up within a few weeks, forget it. BASIC lettering and application, yes, but I wouldn't advertise that you offer this until you have a firm grasp on what you're doing.

You have a great opportunity in front of you. You have a chance to change the face of your community. Every chance you have, study design. Mike Stevens book is incredible. The book is 30 years old, so doesn't have anything about computers, but that's not important. Learn the principles, then learn how to apply that principle in your graphics program. You can charge more because obviously, your competition doesn't have anything to offer.

 

[Techman]

question/answer/discussion forum which invites new members, or are we mistaken?

YEs and maybe no,
This is a SIGN forum for sign makers and future sign makers. To me those who come here will be helped as best I can.

Imposter's, eavesdroppers will come here but will also get a dose of reality the best I can too.

Telling us that he wants to undercut a professional sign maker or makes the implied statement the sign maker is too expensive then this is not in the arena of a future sign maker but is an eavesdropper or tourist. All eh wants to do is cut costs. This is taking a job away from a real fully committed sign maker and is something I do not wish to support.

 

[iSign]

... I am not intending attitude or sarcasm here, but rather serious questions. This (Signs101) is not a private club (or is it?) isn't it a question/answer/discussion forum which invites new members, or are we mistaken?

1. If the veteran sign folk here are so down on the new people, why don't you just ignore them and their questions instead of attempting to demoralize each one that pops in? Is it some sort of sport here?.

did you ever tell a telemarketer that you were not interested in purchasing anything?

If so... why did you do that? could you not have just slammed the phone down in his ear?

This telemarketer enters your life through your telephone, right into your living room, on a plesant day, when you are in a good mood & proceeds to launch into some canned speach, that reaks of self serving salesmanship,far more than of providing any real value for you...

sure you could just ignor the bastard... but you have been engaged in a conversation, by no fault of your own, and the perpetrator has an agenda, where the desired response from you is clear, but "sure, here's my credit card" is not the response you wish to give... it does not then become your responsibility to politely avoid or terminate the conversation... you have every right to engage in responding as you choose, perhaps attempting to educate the narrow minded, agenda driven, perpetrator of an alternative point of view.

 

[Dave Drane]

:Sleeping:

 

[Shovelhead]

I'm lifting my self-imposed ban on bashing newbies.....but this doesn't fall
under that category.

strike 1: you live in San Fran-wierdville

Support your local sign professional!!!!!

 

[Dave Drane]

I'm lifting my self-imposed ban on bashing newbies.....but this doesn't fall
under that category.

strike 1: you live in San Fran-wierdville

Support your local sign professional!!!!!

:Big Laugh:Big Laugh:Big Laugh:Big LaughWay too funny Shovel!!
I am going to bash Special FX for having the most corniest name for a business that he knows sweet FA-ll about and for being an arrogant prick!! I'll be happy when he fades away back to the hole that he crept out of after he realizes that one can't enter this industry and treat it like a second rate hobby!!

 

[Shovelhead]

:Big Laugh:Big Laugh:Big Laugh:Big LaughWay too funny Shovel!!
I am going to bash Special FX for having the most corniest name for a business that he knows sweet FA-ll about and for being an arrogant prick!! I'll be happy when he fades away back to the hole that he crept out of after he realizes that one can't enter this industry and treat it like a second rate hobby!!

What does the rest of the civilized world hear/think about the
armpit (S.F.) of America Dave? It's a friggin embarrassment.

 

[Dave Drane]

What does the rest of the civilized world hear/think about the
armpit (S.F.) of America Dave? It's a friggin embarrassment.

Myself, I find it an exciting city Shovel and being on the west coast it is always fun to stay there a day or 2 before departing on the trip back home. As for Australia being a civilized part of the big wide "W" it is no different than anywhere else. Ask any Aussie about SF and they'll blink and say "duh, why would you not want to see Australia first?". As Americans think that the USA is the only country in the world most Aussies are no different.
I drink too much at this time of night!!

 

[Dave Drane]

Hey Lance, what are you doing up at this late on a Saturday night?? When does daylight saving finish for you "mexicans"??

 

[Lance]

Mr Drane, I'm always up late on a Satdy night and all the others as well, and if you ate Annes cooking, you would be as well.

And Mate.........nobody can drink too much.

 

[Dave Drane]

Mr Drane, I'm always up late on a Satdy night and all the others as well, and if you ate Annes cooking, you would be as well.

And Mate.........nobody can drink too much.

Not sure if Anne would take that as a compliment or not!!

And Mate.........nobody can drink too much.

When you play golf on Saturdays: well you know and I am going riding with the boys tommorrow so I am almost gone from here!! hic!!

 

[Lance]

Enjoy the ride mate and stay safe.

 

[Lance]

We now return you all to you regular scheduled program.

Carry on chaps............